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Empire of Sin - Brenda and John Romero's turn-based Mafia strategy

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,676
I don't really understand how one can fuck up game design this badly. Did nobody think "Hmm, won't the players just beeline to the boss every time rather than taking over his rackets, if killing him gives them all his rackets anyway?"? The economy is downright pathetic, in something that's supposed to be a management game, and the gameplay is repetitive as hell. Oh, and as a bonus, if you get the DLC, you'll get end-game weapons right on game start, just so you can quickly ruin your playthrough even further.

What the actual hell is this shit?
 

Dickie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,235
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But if you don't kill the mob bosses immediately, you can do a sit-down and get amazing bonuses like +2% profit from brothels. Isn't that more exciting than just taking over all of their businesses by killing them in a two-turn battle and getting 100x that much money?
 
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Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,559
I don't really understand how one can fuck up game design this badly. Did nobody think "Hmm, won't the players just beeline to the boss every time rather than taking over his rackets, if killing him gives them all his rackets anyway?"? The economy is downright pathetic, in something that's supposed to be a management game, and the gameplay is repetitive as hell. Oh, and as a bonus, if you get the DLC, you'll get end-game weapons right on game start, just so you can quickly ruin your playthrough even further.

What the actual hell is this shit?

It seems kind of crazy in this day and age, but I don't think the game had any kind of public beta prior to release. So my guess is the only people involved in testing were the devs, and for them the game has always been a LARP. If you don't have people play the game who are interested in stress-testing the mechanics, you won't find exploits or holes in your design.

And that's me being charitable to the devs. The cynical explanation is that they didn't have a public beta because they knew the game is shit, and they just wanted to cash in as much as possible before the negative feedback took hold. Especially given the pay-to-win day one DLC.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,819
Location
Italy
I don't really understand how one can fuck up game design this badly. Did nobody think "Hmm, won't the players just beeline to the boss every time rather than taking over his rackets, if killing him gives them all his rackets anyway?"? The economy is downright pathetic, in something that's supposed to be a management game, and the gameplay is repetitive as hell. Oh, and as a bonus, if you get the DLC, you'll get end-game weapons right on game start, just so you can quickly ruin your playthrough even further.

What the actual hell is this shit?
romero gonna romero.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Many of the Steam reviews note that the game is way too easy.

You know your game is shit when it's "too easy for the average Steam user" easy.
 

mck

Cipher
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
599
decided to pick it up, it seems like there could possibly be a good game buried underneath the shit. maaaaybe patches (paradox paid DLC) will improve it over time
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,406
What a shame.

On a related note, any of you guys remember Gangsters: Organized Crime? I loved that game as a kid, despite the quirks of its UI and its systems. There's just something about it that feels right. Wonder if it still holds up...
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Get woke, go broke
:kfc:

Fuck you, BIGOT! That's not the reason!

Cappuccino lesbianoids with nasty attitudes aren't jarring in any genre. It is in no way anachronistic or unrealistic for a black woman to wear a three-piece suit and carry a Tommy gun in Prohibition-era Chicago.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
What a shame.

On a related note, any of you guys remember Gangsters: Organized Crime? I loved that game as a kid, despite the quirks of its UI and its systems. There's just something about it that feels right. Wonder if it still holds up...

It does. It's a management game with fine management controls and a lot of obvious and hidden complexity alike. It will always hold up. Getting it to run is a little tricky, but doable on Win10 at least.
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,406
What a shame.

On a related note, any of you guys remember Gangsters: Organized Crime? I loved that game as a kid, despite the quirks of its UI and its systems. There's just something about it that feels right. Wonder if it still holds up...

It does. It's a management game with fine management controls and a lot of obvious and hidden complexity alike. It will always hold up. Getting it to run is a little tricky, but doable on Win10 at least.

Thanks, I have to check out the GOG version, see if I can get it to run. Would actually do for a fun Codex-inspired LP, now that I think about it.
 

Eli_Havelock

Learned
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
669
Get woke, go broke
:kfc:

What's funny is how the zDOOM modding community are now all tripping over their pre-op dicks because Johnny Boy there said something nice about trans on a charity stream somewhere - y'know, so the higher suicide rates can start at a younger age but they can compete totally fair in women's sports. </science>

If only they knew anything of him 20 years ago...
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.empireofsingame.com/news/a-sneak-peek-at-1-03

A SNEAK PEEK AT 1.03

Hey bootleggers!

Word on the street says things are shaking up in Chicago’s underworld. Luckily, we’ve got sources very close to the action, and they’ve got the whole scoop. We ain’t no rats, but this information is too good not to share.

Safehouse Changes

Information is harder to come by these days. Something spooked the bosses around the city, and they’re not taking any more chances. They’ve hidden their Safehouses, and are making extra efforts to keep the location well guarded. On game start, a Safehouse is just another white building somewhere in the neighborhood that can only be revealed by the most shrewd gangsters. They’re not even letting their guards stand out front.

hidden-safehouses.png


Sitdowns with other bosses can still go ahead, but you’re only invited to talk in the backroom of one of their rackets as opposed to the fancy office in their Safehouse. If the sitdown doesn’t end well, the enemy boss is still well protected, and there’s a lot of brawling to get through before they reveal their Safehouse location.

To find out how close you are to finding where another boss is hiding, check your diplomacy screen. As you can see in the pictures below, your Discovery Chance is a Safehouse icon and progress wheel shown on the enemy boss’s profile. Once you meet a new faction, your chance of finding them increases by 1% each in-game week.

discovery-chance-1.png


discovery-chance-2.png

So how do you find out where a boss is hiding? We’re so glad you asked!

There’s always the old fashioned way of attacking their rackets. This is prohibition Chicago we’re talking about, where anything goes, and enemy bosses are easily pissed off. The chance of them revealing their location increases with each one of their rackets you attack (though that’s a lot easier said than done, more on that later!) There is potential to find clues in their rackets that can lead you to their location, so keep your eyes peeled. Planting a mole amongst their ranks is another way to gain information on their whereabouts. They feed you information as and when they find it.

Your discovery chance is checked every month, and if you pass the threshold, the enemy’s Safehouse is revealed. Once they’ve been rumbled, an event pop-up will tell you where the Safehouse is. As the below image shows, you can decide to view it straight away or wait until you’re good and ready.

safehouse-revealed.png


What you do with this information is entirely up to you, but as you know, Chicago’s not built for sharing. The boss knows this too, and once they’re discovered, you’ll notice their guards patrolling out front in preparation for your next move.

Combat changes

Let’s start with exterior combat. Thugs have wised up and are deciding to pick their battles. They don’t just start fighting with anyone in the street anymore, least of all a gang boss. The only way they can be tempted into a brawl is if you try to steal their loot crates.

As for security upgrades with major factions, there must be something in the hooch they’re drinking because security guards have gotten stronger. Tiers have increased so that with each security upgrade, they get much tougher. They have a higher HP and better armor and their attributes have also been seen to – so you can count on them having a better aim for one thing. Their inventories have remained the same, but the gear available to them has gotten better too. Security guards now have access to a stash of uncommon and rare weapons that they’re only itching to use against any opportunistic gang bosses. At security levels 4 and 5, there’s a whole new tier of racket guards on shift, and they are bigger and better than what has come before. In the picture below, you’ll see Goldie giving up the ghost. Take that as a fair warning not to arrive to combat unprepared.

death-shot.png
If that wasn’t enough to contend with, weapons have lost some of their bite. Critical Damage has been brought down across the board, along with some other attributes. Rifles, for instance, have had their armor damage removed, and the range for sub-machine guns has also been trimmed. As of 1.03, the functionality for armor has been revamped. As utility items, they haven’t changed, but you no longer lose your armor when it’s been riddled with lead. Now, armor gets repaired after combat and over time it gets better and rejuvenates to full protection.

Combat AI has gotten smarter too. Guards are far more likely to calculate their moves as carefully as you do during a fight. Some of the more cowardly guards, known for running around a lot, have had a stern talking-to from the Capos. They’ve grown nerves of steel and now prefer to stand their ground and empty their weapons on you.

tougher-guards.png


Mini-Auto-Resolve

Something we’ve been seeing a lot from player’s feedback is the desire for an auto-resolve in combat. The city is a volatile place, and sometimes it’s better to let skirmishes settle themselves without getting involved. Auto-resolve is a feature that’s coming up soon on our roadmap, though the road to full functionality will happen incrementally. Changes will appear in stages and combat designer Ian O’ Neill has shared what to expect from each one. The first stage, included in 1.03, is a mini-resolve feature. Any external combat that doesn’t include a boss or a gangster will have a pop-up where you can choose to fight, or surrender.

mini-resolve.png


Following that, the next stage of implementation will have a very simple version of auto-resolve with an option to fight, abandon, or auto-resolve. The final steps will come to fruition over three stages with full UI, full features, and full auto-resolve for combat. But it’s coming!

General Changes

In addition to everything above, there are a number of other tweaks here and there that you’re going to notice around Chicago. There’s been a host of improvements to make your playing experience better. We’ve added some building variation, UI and locale polish, as well as an auto-focusing feature that makes any new mission from boss missions or quest givers the top priority.

Also, remember fast travel? It’s now a thing of the past! Sal’s cabs have undergone a mass exodus of staff – probably from the fear of taxiing around bloodthirsty gangsters all the time – and most of the city’s taxi routes are cut. Bosses and gangsters alike can only travel by taxi to their Safehouse or from one taxi-point to another. Anything beyond that and you’re walking, pal.

no-fast-travel.png


Thugs have started expressing their individuality! Giving up on copying each other’s appearance, they now have thirteen variations in appearance, all of which are randomly selected. Get a load of their new look in the picture below.

new-thugs.png


That’s all the information we could squeeze from the streets of Chicago for this round. We’ll be sure to report back as soon as we have more. Until next time gangsters, Happy Sinning!
 

AdamReith

Magister
Patron
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
2,109
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Sounds incredibly arbitrary for this sort of XCOM inspired game. Basically a random chance of unlocking the ability to actually proceed in the game at random.

It does however, sound like something that would be much more at home paradox title. What are the chances they had to send out a "design consultant" to try and salvage the game.
 

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