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CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

AwesomeButton

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One more argument that Cyberpunk 2077 is strangely inept at character building.

Contrary to Geralt, V seems to have no relationships, contacts, aquaintances in the world dating from before the game begins.

I played a Nomad, but even Street Kid V gets this weird in-character justification for not being familiar with anybody - he has spent 4 years in Atlanta. Which conveniently means that nobody knows him in Night City?

Geralt on the other hand is somewhat aquainted with most secondary characters or at least with enough of them to create the impression that he is a part of this world and has a past history in it.

I blame the idiotic CDPR pull towards "V is your character", "You are V", "You see the world through V's eyes". Who is the moron who even falls for this shit? You have to be 15 and not have played other games in your life. In the beginning days of cinema, when they showed a train going against the camera, people would stand up from their seats and attempt to run from the theater - now that was virgin audience getting truly immersed. This shit doesn't exist nowadays, hasn't for a long time.
 

Renevent

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One more argument that Cyberpunk 2077 is strangely inept at character building.

Contrary to Geralt, V seems to have no relationships, contacts, aquaintances in the world dating from before the game begins.

I played a Nomad, but even Street Kid V gets this weird in-character justification for not being familiar with anybody - he has spent 4 years in Atlanta. Which conveniently means that nobody knows him in Night City?

Geralt on the other hand is somewhat aquainted with most secondary characters or at least with enough of them to create the impression that he is a part of this world and has a past history in it.

I blame the idiotic CDPR pull towards "V is your character", "You are V", "You see the world through V's eyes". Who is the moron who even falls for this shit? You have to be 15 and not have played other games in your life. In the beginning days of cinema, when they showed a train going against the camera, people would stand up from their seats and attempt to run from the theater - now that was virgin audience getting truly immersed. This shit doesn't exist nowadays, hasn't for a long time.

I didn't really pay attention to the story that much, but I believe his nomad clan was destroyed or he was permanently exiled (something like that). That said while it would have been nice to do some quests that cover his past, I think they did a good job with other aspects like his bro-in-crime, the romances, and that Japanese dude. All three I felt were handled well.

I kinda took the whole thing as something similar to the RPG trope "hero who doesn't remember anything"...but instead of amnesia they basically made his former life destroyed and the main character having to start again anew.
 

Twiglard

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Alright, so the Arasaka ending really is utter shit. The writers went to make a tract to punch the player in the gut even further. But more importantly,

Looks like Alt is better at messing up with human mind than Arasaka techs. The researcher at first seems aloof but then it turns out V's a lab rat and she despises him.

Question is whether V will wake up in the digitization ending.

If Saburo stays at the helm, him and Miss Tightpants will keep their word -- but not right when the tech gets invented, but when it becomes affordable. V will wake up few hundred years into the future. Everyone dead, not the same gangs, clans, cities, existing anymore.

If Arasaka ceases to exist due to a corp war or acquisition, V will succumb to entropy with the storage medium.

So,

Nomads > Secret > Rogue > Arasaka

But play the Arasaka "bad ending" to get some perspective, before the good ending. As not to end on such a shitty note.

I blame the idiotic CDPR pull towards "V is your character", "You are V", "You see the world through V's eyes". Who is the moron who even falls for this shit?

It somewhat works: sometimes it's claustrophobic and I wanted to get out of the shitty situation, but couldn't.

Also in the Arasaka ending, the closeups on the face and mimicry were striking. Reminds me of the disgust I felt when seeing this in Kieślowski's Dekalog -- chapters about love, and idolatry at least. That was one monocled director. Neither Tykwer nor Maelstrom's whoever-was-the-director came nowhere near it, not for the lack of trying.
 

Turjan

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I didn't really pay attention to the story that much, but I believe his nomad clan was destroyed or he was permanently exiled (something like that).
Yes, his family got obliterated because it gave up its independence. Which, by the way, is also the explanation why he would go along with Panam's rather outrageous plans, because he thinks that's still a better chance than being gulped up by Biotechnica (Saul's plan).
 

Hellion

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Heh, Panam is hanging around in Afterlife during the Prologue, but we can't interact with her.



And apparently she keeps a bottle of booze hidden inside her ass.
 

Mefi

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what bugs me about the main story:

it's fine until act 2. first act is just about two retards trying to make cash, nothing special, no ideals, no big plans, they could be playing lottery as well and it doesn't matter what background u choose. they just want money, status, cars, women and maybe hookers, whatever simple men want from life. there is an interesting conversation between the protagonist and jackie in the hotel room before the shit hits the fan. it goes something like this:

Jackie: Why do you think this guy (Yorinobu) abandonded all his wealth and position if he got everything a man could want and need?
V: He probably was just bored.

at this point my thoughts were: "okay, the game is building something up there, it makes clear that those two have no idea that there might be something more impotant in life than possessions and social standing." disappointingly, there doesn't seem to be any point during the mainstory about that. the first ending i got (when choosing to let johnny attack arasaka tower with rogue) ended with V deciding that getting a nice flat, becoming a "legendary mercenary" and new boss of afterlife is a great way to spend his last 6 months. tells u all about that u need to know. don't know what kind of deal he has with Blue Eyes but it seems like he ended up where he started, not developing at all, the same retard he was when the story began with the more serious problem of certain death. running in circles.

from my point of view the only satisfying conclusion u get is if u decide u involve the nomads and panam. V leaves the town to search for answers and a purpose outside of night city, finding a family and beginning a new life. the game is clearly biased towards that ending because all the others are dumb shit with V ending up lonely.

the antagonists, if anyone in this game deserves this word, are bad and uninteresting. u do not interact with yurinobo at all, u don't know anything about his ambitions, motivations and u only get a very short and unsatisfying conversation if u decide to rely on arasaka. during midgame i thought there would be a revelation why yurinobo decided to the steal and sell the relic, why it's so important and why it's silverhand's data on the chip. but those answers are banal nonsense (it's silverhand because it was a prototype - so the Cd just wanted to add keanu reeves - and the relic is there to ensure his father can continue his business), like most of the sideqeusts in the game (the most insulting being regina's cyberpsychos when she just tells u that she still doesn't know anything in the end). smasher is a nobody, really no one cares about him except johnny.

the corporation theme isn't presented in any believable way, instead what u see in town are gangs senselessly killing eachother and civilians like animals. maybe it would be a good idea if the corpos clean up on the streets.

the "data vs soul/consciousness" was much better explored in Soma for example. cyberpunk has nothing to add to that except more banalities.

ultimately the game seems to be about nothing but superficialities with no essence in between and even the protagonists main goal, survival, is counteracted by the revelation that u just bought yourself a couple of months no matter what decision u make. and the writing is pretty bad at some points.

I saw it a little bit differently.

One of the main themes is escaping from one's own reality to an idealised better place. At the same time there's a recognition that failure to achieve that, whether you try or not, is likely to end up with you dead. Viktor's probably the most grounded character in the game and even he has retreated from the world around him to an underground den with Misty as his buffer from dealing with too many people. Even fantasist Jackie is reading For Whom the Bell Tolls while being driven to escape an abusive childhood, gang wars which leave him nearly dead, and living in a garage with his bike. So the Afterlife ending is the idealised living legend but V's still going to die, question I took from it was whether it was worth it? It's the same question which comes up with teenage rebellion in Japan where Yurinobu decided that it wasn't and returned to Arasake to try and take his father's power and use it to try and create something new from Arasaka instead. It's world decaying even as everyone flees into fantasies.
 

DeepOcean

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They can try and do it like you describe it... and by that obliterate the reminder of what is left of their reputation.

How many of those 13 million bought the game because of CDPR's reputation and not because it was shilled 24/7 from every media?
Naughty Dog pretty much blown up their reputation with a huge portion of their fan base with that bizarre shit they did with Last of Us 2, most of those will return to "consume product" mode as soon as their new game is announced. If reputation meant something on gaming industry, EA wouldnt be the second most profitable publisher only after Activision.
 

Turjan

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Hmm, looks as if that penthouse you see from V's apartment is actually used in one of the endings. So I guess that was that.
 

alyvain

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So the Afterlife ending is the idealised living legend but V's still going to die, question I took from it was whether it was worth it?

The fact that the new luxury living place is across the street from the old one probably indicates that no, it wasn't. Fun thing is that the future isn't as much "cyberpunky", as purely capitalistic. Honestly, in the game it doesn't even feel that the corpos, who can't even find shit in the city due to the plot limitations, have that much of a technical edge over the various misfits, it is just that big money and institutes fueled by them move the world in general. The creepiest techno-stuff is the Peralez family, and we don't even know whether corpos are behind it. My point is, in this game any rebellion against status-quo is meaningless, organised political action is out of the question. The only way to "win" is to depart from the world, to live on the outskirts, keep close to the people you care about, preferably a tight family-type community, such as the Aldecaldos gypsies or the actual family of the one-eyed-cop-dude.

So the overall message feels very conservative. Since success is perilous and you can't change shit anyway, save yourself, run, maybe put up a good fight, live in the woods, build a barn, that kind of stuff. Some of this feels like a sitcom or, I dunno, a Firefly episode, where you have a community, which cares about each other in not-so-hospitable world, other stuff is straight from the XIXth century. The fact that characters hardly interact with each other seriously undermines it, but I honestly didn't feel any other major theme being developed throughout the game. Silverhand was probably ment to function like a sad fucked-everything-up-looking-for-redemption dude from Disco Elysium to a certain extent, but this doesn't work well.
 

Mefi

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The fact that the new luxury living place is across the street from the old one probably indicates that no, it wasn't. Fun thing is that the future isn't as much "cyberpunky", as purely capitalistic. Honestly, in the game it doesn't even feel that the corpos, who can't even find shit in the city due to the plot limitations, have that much of a technical edge over the various misfits, it is just that big money and institutes fueled by them move the world in general. The creepiest techno-stuff is the Peralez family, and we don't even know whether corpos are behind it. My point is, in this game any rebellion against status-quo is meaningless, organised political action is out of the question. The only way to "win" is to depart from the world, to live on the outskirts, keep close to the people you care about, preferably a tight family-type community, such as the Aldecaldos gypsies or the actual family of the one-eyed-cop-dude.

So the overall message feels very conservative. Since success is perilous and you can't change shit anyway, save yourself, run, maybe put up a good fight, live in the woods, build a barn, that kind of stuff. Some of this feels like a sitcom or, I dunno, a Firefly episode, where you have a community, which cares about each other in not-so-hospitable world, other stuff is straight from the XIXth century. The fact that characters hardly interact with each other seriously undermines it, but I honestly didn't feel any other major theme being developed throughout the game. Silverhand was probably ment to function like a sad fucked-everything-up-looking-for-redemption dude from Disco Elysium to a certain extent, but this doesn't work well.

The futility of struggle against 'the system' is kind of the core of cyberpunk, isn't it? It's not someone changing the world, it's a miracle if they change themselves by the end of the story arc. ("He spent the bulk of his Swiss account on a new pancreas and liver, the rest on a new Ono-Sendai and a ticket back to the Sprawl" as Neuromancer's Case ends up.)

Good point on the message about social structures within the game, although I'd frame it as a more 'human' idea than a strictly 'conservative' one. For Whom the Bell Tolls opens with a quote from Donne. 'No man is an island...' etc. Can see your point on doing it well and developing it even if I'm a little more sympathetic to the game. (Mainly because Johnny's arc can work really well but it's so dependent on order stuff is done in, which goes back to your point on doing it well to start with...).

That mind control storyline does have a corp background. It also seems to link occult and technology. Really underdeveloped currently though - seems either cut or base for future DLC.
 

Twiglard

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don't know what kind of deal he has with Blue Eyes but it seems like he ended up where he started, not developing at all, the same retard he was when the story began with the more serious problem of certain death. running in circles.

What do you think? Who can offer more than Alt and 'Saka? It's only the techno-necromancers from Alpha Centauri. He's a proxy for AI past the Blackwall or something like that.

from my point of view the only satisfying conclusion u get is if u decide u involve the nomads and panam. V leaves the town to search for answers and a purpose outside of night city, finding a family and beginning a new life. the game is clearly biased towards that ending because all the others are dumb shit with V ending up lonely.

The thing is, V is still dying in that ending. He can shoot through the rough equivalent of the National Guard, but has no cure and no method of finding it. It's a carefree death for him.

The Nomad ending has the most positive tone overall, but for the Rogue/Secret endings you can potentially survive and get back with the waifu. I'd say chance is more than half.

the antagonists, if anyone in this game deserves this word, are bad and uninteresting. u do not interact with yurinobo at all, u don't know anything about his ambitions, motivations and u only get a very short and unsatisfying conversation if u decide to rely on arasaka.

Sort of. I think it's important to play all the endings to get a full picture, all facts revealed. Anyway he wants to sabotage the company from the inside, burn it to the ground. I'm of course assuming that facts from other endings happen as-is even if not revealed in the others.

during midgame i thought there would be a revelation why yurinobo decided to the steal and sell the relic, why it's so important and why it's silverhand's data on the chip.

Because of what he said. He wants to destroy the company. "Become the bomb".

the corporation theme isn't presented in any believable way, instead what u see in town are gangs senselessly killing eachother and civilians like animals. maybe it would be a good idea if the corpos clean up on the streets.

Cuts, and gameplay/narrative segregation.

the "data vs soul/consciousness" was much better explored in Soma for example. cyberpunk has nothing to add to that except more banalities.

Soma's pretty good but the content is sophomoric drivel. Let's all navel-gaze on the essence of chairs for fuck's sake.
I'd make a spoiler thread but it's not gonna be the same without Junta. :salute: Is he lurking by any chance?
 

Danikas

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That mind control storyline does have a corp background. It also seems to link occult and technology. Really underdeveloped currently though - seems either cut or base for future DLC.

Peralez quest is definitely linked with night corp if you let Elizabeth guide you through her house you can learn that their law degrees were founded by night corp and sandra dorsett uncovered night corp experiments on mind control with the use of ai. Then there is the question of who programmed and equipped that cyberpsycho that attacks the town hall.
 

Sòren

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The futility of struggle against 'the system' is kind of the core of cyberpunk, isn't it? It's not someone changing the world, it's a miracle if they change themselves by the end of the story arc. ("He spent the bulk of his Swiss account on a new pancreas and liver, the rest on a new Ono-Sendai and a ticket back to the Sprawl" as Neuromancer's Case ends up.)

and exactly this is my problem with the story. there is no character development during the game and neither u nor Johnny know what the ultimate goal of ur journey is -except survival. which fails. all the endings - except the nomad's - show that. it seems like the game was messed up by too many different ideas.



also, i think u are wrong on the peralez questlines. the game hints that some more sinister and powerful faction holds the strings, which are AI's from beyond the blackwall. which probably was the most interesting thing happening in the game.
 

alyvain

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Can see your point on doing it well and developing it even if I'm a little more sympathetic to the game.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic, I'm just sad about how it turned out, because I believe it was supposed to be much more humane than, say, the Witcher 3 story.

Peralez quest is definitely linked with night corp if you let Elizabeth guide you through her house you can learn that their law degrees were founded by night corp and sandra dorsett uncovered night corp experiments on mind control with the use of ai. Then there is the question of who programmed and equipped that cyberpsycho that attacks the town hall.

Just wait till we learn that Nightcorp is operated by AI or AIesque mr.House/mr.Night in one of the DLCs
 
Vatnik Wumao
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Peralez quest is definitely linked with night corp if you let Elizabeth guide you through her house you can learn that their law degrees were founded by night corp and sandra dorsett uncovered night corp experiments on mind control with the use of ai. Then there is the question of who programmed and equipped that cyberpsycho that attacks the town hall.

Just wait till we learn that Nightcorp is operated by AI or AIesque mr.Vegas/mr.Night in one of the DLCs
Mr. Blue Eyes will be this game's O'Dimm.
 

Danikas

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Just wait till we learn that Nightcorp is operated by AI or AIesque mr.House/mr.Night in one of the DLCs

Storyline about Richard Night taking back Night city from the other corps and making it truly independent could be fun.
 

Mefi

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and exactly this is my problem with the story. there is no character development during the game and neither u nor Johnny know what the ultimate goal of ur journey is -except survival. which fails. all the endings - except the nomad's - show that. it seems like the game was messed up by too much different ideas.



also, i think u are wrong on the peralez questlines. the game hints that some more sinister and powerful faction holds the strings, which are AI's from beyond the blackwall. which probably was the most interesting thing happening in the game.

My personal theory on the Peralez questline.

Night Corp is using brain changing tech to control politicians in an attempt to take control of Night City, which Arasaka currently controls, while also using occult ideas to persuade Maelstrom members to host AI inside their own bodies as a way to try and control the streets. Gangs being an extension of Corp power (eg Arasaka and Tyger Claws).

Kind of agree with you on a real mishmash of ideas. Agree with you on characters developing, but for Johnny, who does have a real change - marred as it is by you potentially never realising because you've not done the quests to see it. How many people will have talked with Johnny and two buddhist monks at the same time? Not only do you need to do one particular quest, you then need to be in the right spot at the right time to follow it up. But the overall stagnation of characters doesn't bother me so much because that's within my expectation for the genre that V can choose to continue trying to play the game.
 

taxalot

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Finally finished the game. I saw all the endings available.

It is a game that does a lot of great things and plenty of terrible other things. And not all the bad things will be fixed. The bugs and performance were never a problem for me. Other things were.
Dependings on your expectations, the good or the bad will win in the balance.

I like the game enough to keep on playing and finish available sidequests and gigs. I do not do this for every game.

It is a fantastic and flawed game. I might consider writing a review.
 

alyvain

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and two buddhist monks at the same time?

Do you mean the meditating one and the one who got tortured by Maelstrom? I think I saw the latter before the second act, so I don't know Johnny's reaction to it.
 

Mefi

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Do you mean the meditating one and the one who got tortured by Maelstrom? I think I saw the latter before the second act, so I don't know Johnny's reaction to it.

Welcome to the spoiler thread... sorry. Yeah, the latter.

If you rescure the one held by Maelstrom, later on you'll find both him and the one who had implants forced on him sat beneath a large four armed statue. You can chat with them about Buddhist views on whether an engram is alive, and Johnny will chime in to. There are loads of conversations like that scattered about, which creates the character arc for Johnny. I only did the initial quest for my first playthrough. There's a number of other quests with non-flagged follow ups without Johnny dialogue as well.
 

Ibn Sina

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Anyone did the Meditation quest chain with the mysterious Buddhist priest who keeps disappearing?
 

Turjan

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Some of those quests have a bit more to it than I first expected. Even that initially stupid quest with the talking vending machine has several follow-ups.
 

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