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CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

Mefi

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Game comes down on the idea that if it feels pain then it's alive, and with some of the rest of this it's tucked away and I suspect the full arc doesn't get seen by too many even in a haphazard order. For Johnny (or his engram) the pain is in revisiting his fuck-ups. 'This is the only thing I've not fucked up', he tells V. There is the obvious creep of V becoming Johnny, seen in dialogue choices and even the silver arm V starts to sport, but it doesn't seem to be driven by Johnny. He's positive he could take control of V's body far quicker if he chose to, and there's some evidence to support that when he takes over V's body to pull her somewhere safe but doesn't head off out to party for the most part.

The problem with the soul prison is that it isn't a digitised retreat but an attempt to manipulate engrams while they are stored. Why Lizzy Wizzy flips on her husband. What Johnny calls the worst possible thing left for the corps to do to people. So one of the questions I have is how Johnny has been altered while in there because I've not come across anything where he (or someone else) talks about why Arasaka were trying to bring this version of him back to life.

It worked for me as an arc on a longer play through where Johnny doesn't bounce from trying to kill V to being best friends forever within a gig or two. Thought it also played nicely with other themes of control, manipulation, and agency which run through the game on a few levels.
 

DalekFlay

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What I meant is that, other than the main quest, there wasn't much C&C in FO4. I can't recall any sidequests that had significant C&C. If there were any, they weren't very memorable.

Yeah it was definitely main quest only for the most part. I think your faction of choice had some minor impact on other quests here and there, and some kill or spare type shit, but that's about it. Just saying Cyberpunk has even less outside of the ending, despite a lot of opportunity for more setting/story wise. How this game's gangs and corporations didn't scream "IN DEPTH FACTION SYSTEM" to the designers I have no idea.
 

DeepOcean

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The question of whether V is just a schmuck being manipulated by a clever program permeates the whole game, and it's not resolved in any of the endings except the one with Johnny riding off into the sunset in V's body. But even that could be looked at as a victory for the engram, it's best victory.

It's a bit like the movie Ex Machina.

Is Johnny a real person (a conscious being with a soul) who's seeking redemption or is he just a program taking over someone's brain with insectile efficiency and making them feel at ease with the gradual takeover by simulating a real human being seeking redemption? I think the devs intend you to feel a cold hard creeping thought at the possibility you might just be being manipulated in many of the dialogues with Johnny, even the grave site scene. Even things like the dog tags, the jolly stuff re. playing with Kelly in the band, all that could just be the engram manipulating you into submission, into sacrificing your brain and body to it.

After all it's established that right at the beginning that that's what the engram is and is doing - it's taking over your brain.
I'm aware of all you said but that isnt an answer to my problem with the soul thing. The game implies on just quick three conversations this interpration you mentioned but the word here is imply and leaves alot of room in there because if the game didnt let room for interpretation, the only logical thing was to say fuck Silverhand and refuse to cooperate with him at all so there wouldnt be a choice in there. Also, Johnny offers a suicide run against Arasaka if you are friendly with him, what would be a strange thing for the engram to do because if you died inside fucking Arasaka, there would be no reconstruction, no magical reboots( it would be an one way journey to Mikoshi of what was left of you after Adam Smasher cut you in half), what supposedly go against the goal of the engram that is replace you with Johnny. Also, this theory doesnt hold up because being hostile to Johnny or being cooperative doesnt increase the hold of the engram and accelerates the process what would be the supposedly objective of the engram. You could to the very end, just say fuck it and ride to the sunset with Panam or go with Arasaka. Johnny only really complains if you go to the Arasaka route.

I dont care or want exactly an explanation, I care about exploration, on MotB, you get to know the story of Akachi, the creation of the wall of the faithless,meet its creator, meet those that oppose to its existance and you can choose how to deal with your curse, it was all about the curse that is the main thing on there, side characters are involved too on the way you deal with the curse and react to your choices, this is good storytelling that offers extensive exploration of the main story issue on a game. The game didnt even needed to tell the truth, only offer enough meat for me to think about it and played with the whole thing before reaching for a final decision.

It felt like the main issue of the game, your predicament and the Johnny situation thing that are the crucial thing in the game were shoved aside in favor of a series of things that didnt go anywhere anyway. The Voodoo boys vs NetWatch (You choose which of the two gets fucked but that has zero consequences on the story), remember Yorinabu was trying to sell the Relic to Netwatch... yeah, the game forgets about that pretty quickly, Evelyn dies anyway, sure, it was a cool story but it doesnt evolve the main plot beyond revealing Brigitte, honestly, it should had been a secondary mission, the Panam interception of the transport, in the end, the only thing you win is an explanation that is pratically a repeat of what was already said by Viktor, the Goro missions, they are nice and all but all of that just to meet Hanako. The game needed another entire act or had an act 2 about your problem and the differents sides and interpretations of it, the way it does, feels like they had to take some rabbit out of the hat to not making you wishing to live the only logical end to the story.

This is supposedly to be a game (who am I kidding, it is a movie pretending to be a game), so there is this cool theory that sounds so profound is nice for a movie but really doesnt impress me the least on a video game, especially one with storyfag pretentions. Let's pretend this game actually cares into being a game, on the newest CoD, there is a section on the main campaign where there is some guy telling you the events that happened on your life, if you follow the path the game indicates, everything happens as he says but if you move on another direction, he keeps complaining and demanding you return to the path while the scenery keeps changing and getting weirder and weirder until you discover you had implanted memories. Fucking CoD did this, indie games like Stanley Parable and etc but CDPR cant let you explore the nature of your condition. The only moments they even try to insinuate the whole unreliable narrator thing with Johnny is on the Flashback section but even there, I had a feeling they insinuated that more as an ass cover in case people questioned those sections because they didnt include the whole story of them because the unreliable narrator thing disappears on the rest of the game.

I suspect, for them to do what was right for the story they were making, they would need to go way overboard on keanu's lines and that would mean a few more millions of dollars so they shipped what they felt was good for what it was. The game, to me, ended feeling like a linear movie in the begining followed by walking in circles and then a rush to the end trying to do what it should had done on Act 2, so I felt meh about it . Are individual moments on the three acts that are really well done? Sure, there are (just wish CDPR didnt spoiled half of them) but it doesnt convince as a complete coherent narrative much less one that is for an interactive medium. It was far from being the worst story ever but if you ask me if that compensated the gameplay problems the game has? Nope.
 
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Quillon

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I think the devs intend you to feel a cold hard creeping thought at the possibility you might just be being manipulated in many of the dialogues with Johnny, even the grave site scene. Even things like the dog tags, the jolly stuff re. playing with Kelly in the band, all that could just be the engram manipulating you into submission, into sacrificing your brain and body to it.

And you actually think that would be cool if its the case? If you refuse its just content you miss out on because the narrative doesn't change either way. But go ahead and try to find ways to glorify their linear story.
 

I ASK INANE QUESTIONS

ITZ NEVER STOPS COOOMING
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Come to think of it... Can we say that "F" is the awesome button of Cyberpunk 2077?

I dunno about that, but what I do know is that there's a special F button in Cyberpunk 2077. A button custom-made for some of the more prestigious codexers.

5JkLyIM.png
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Come to think of it... Can we say that "F" is the awesome button of Cyberpunk 2077?

I dunno about that, but what I do know is that there's a special F button in Cyberpunk 2077. A button custom-made for some of the more prestigious codexers.

5JkLyIM.png

How about this as a button? We have "you have issues" but still.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
The game is not even an RPG. It has a super short mainquest and a staggering low ammount of sidequest you can count them using your fingers. No decision making. A progression like a mediocre looter shooter with watchdog elements.
Do you have a pic of your hands? There are 92 side quests in the game, not including gigs or the NCPD stuff, however counting races, boxing quests or Epistrophy separately. Your hands must look amazing :).

Yeah, I also found that statement jarring.
It might not be a very long game, but "super-short" and "staggering low ammount"? Really?
Also makes me question whether that person actually played the game.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Silencers are useless until you get a piece of handheld piece of artillery (how the fuck does a silencer drop 30% of damage?).
:argh:

Not that I want to defend the itemization in general... but Silencers are actually pretty great. Some of them (available from the start) only drop 15% of base damage.
Meanwhile doing 2 - 2,5 TIMES damage from Stealth. Furthermore, Stealth perks increase these numbers further. And boost headshot damage too. Even crappy silenced revolvers found 10 levels earlier one-shot every enemy vulnerable to headshots from stealth.
Clearing whole areas under Stealth isn't entirely trivial at first, but it soon becomes much easier with a few Perks. Or quickhacks.
 

Pegultagol

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One of the endings that allows you to decide the fate for who takes over V's body in the end actually puts the player in the role of Johnny, who we aren't sure whether he is in fact real or merely sets of data out to take control. I take that to mean that either
1. The game is even attempting to fool the player, after having convinced V, to achieve the purpose of the engram program
2. The game is indicating that by giving you the control, the engram can transcend its usual assignment with the 'soul' part (you) redeeming the character of Johnny.
It leaves up to the player to interpret the role by giving you the chance to define who Johnny is to you. But already by giving up control to the player, it removes some ambiguity to give more credence to second option, with your journey with Johnny's vessel a testament of sorts.
 

Bliblablubb

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are 92 side quests in the game
Hold your horses there kiddo. Calling all of those gigs "sidequests" is preem PR department bullshittery.
The majority of those are "after looting a message from a corpse go to X and loot a bawx."
Or Mama-san calling: "V, spend 5 mins going in that house shoot everyone and get me that item. Are you married to doctor yet?"
No sneaking needed, even if you do it might only get you 1k €$ extra.
Just because they get an entry in the quest log, does not make them "side quests". Shit, that number probably even includes purchasable cars. :hahano:

20-30 is a more realistic number here.
 

Terenty

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There's fuck all about Johnny being an unreliable narrator and there's zero ruminations on the whole "nature of soul" thing. Stop pulling crap out of your ass and have some standards.

Black Mirror episodes about all that stuff were more interesting than anything in here
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
There's fuck all about Johnny being an unreliable narrator and there's zero ruminations on the whole "nature of soul" thing. Stop pulling crap out of your ass and have some standards.

Black Mirror episodes about all that stuff were more interesting than anything in here

Did you pay attention to the Alt convo at all? She/it very clearly emphasizes that what you saw was only Johny's version of the story and it probably has little in common with what really happened. I was actually surprised how blatantly she/it said that.
 

Bliblablubb

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Silencers are useless until you get a piece of handheld piece of artillery (how the fuck does a silencer drop 30% of damage?).
While there tons of things to rant about in this game, that one actually isn't.
To make your gun "silent" you need to lower the bullet's speed below the speed of sound to avoid the sonic crack. By lowering the speed you therefore reduce the impact energy on the target (and range). Read: damage.
Better silencers somewhat do it better, so yeah, that design decision makes sense for a change. :obviously:
 

Terenty

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Did you pay attention to the Alt convo at all? She/it very clearly emphasizes that what you saw was only Johny's version of the story and it probably has little in common with what really happened. I was actually surprised how blatantly she/it said that.
So what, one comment that never leads to anything interesting and never brought up again. Besides
Rogue still goes on a suicide mission with Johnny again, so whatever he was telling you couldn't have been that far off
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
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Silencers are useless until you get a piece of handheld piece of artillery (how the fuck does a silencer drop 30% of damage?).
While there tons of things to rant about in this game, that one actually isn't.
To make your gun "silent" you need to lower the bullet's speed below the speed of sound to avoid the sonic crack. By lowering the speed you therefore reduce the impact energy on the target (and range). Read: damage.
Better silencers somewhat do it better, so yeah, that design decision makes sense for a change. :obviously:

You're expecting games to acknowledge the sonic crack. Not even STALKER has it. It's only Arma and others of similar caliber.
 

Bliblablubb

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Did you pay attention to the Alt convo at all? She/it very clearly emphasizes that what you saw was only Johny's version of the story and it probably has little in common with what really happened. I was actually surprised how blatantly she/it said that.
So what, one comment that never leads to anything interesting and never brought up again. Besides
Rogue still goes on a suicide mission with Johnny again, so whatever he was telling you couldn't have been that far off
As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Johnny's team was on Miltech's payroll there. In his version however, he is on his heroic anarchy crusade and while he oneshots everyone, his team members are just useless. Shaitan is firing single shots from the choppah until Johnny takes over ffs. You wanted to yell "it's a machiiiiiine gun!" at him. :hahano:
There is also a strange gap between Smasher appearing and Johnny suddently being on the roof again.

And Rogue...well, she always had an unhealthy obsession with him. She saw him through different glasses than the rest of the world. :hahano:
Sad.
 

Terenty

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As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Johnny's team was on Miltech's payroll there. In his version however, he is on his heroic anarchy crusade and while he oneshots everyone, his team members are just useless. Shaitan is firing single shots from the choppah until Johnny takes over ffs. You wanted to yell "it's a machiiiiiine gun!" at him. :hahano:
There is also a strange gap between Smasher appearing and Johnny suddently being on the roof again.
Johnny one shotting everyone and being a Rambo is well withing the boundaries of the setting (at least how its presented in this particular game).

What's the difference between you one shotting mindless corpo soldiers and Johnny? Or you and Alecandos mowing down hundreds of Arasakas while trading jokes?
 

Bliblablubb

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You're expecting games to acknowledge the sonic crack. Not even STALKER has it.
The original Stalker had the weird situation where you had speshul silenced soviet weapons, where the whole barrel is the supressor like the MP5SD and can fire normal bullets supressed. And no AK could be silenced, aside from one unique rifle.
But then you had the AR15 ones, you could slap one on IIRC.
I assume that was the result of a transition between the original idea and the publisher insisting on things to be added for the CoD audience.
 

Shadowfang

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Silencers are useless until you get a piece of handheld piece of artillery (how the fuck does a silencer drop 30% of damage?).
While there tons of things to rant about in this game, that one actually isn't.
To make your gun "silent" you need to lower the bullet's speed below the speed of sound to avoid the sonic crack. By lowering the speed you therefore reduce the impact energy on the target (and range). Read: damage.
Better silencers somewhat do it better, so yeah, that design decision makes sense for a change. :obviously:
Older silencers reduced your bullet speed but recent technology doesn't have that effect and you could pretty much fire bullets at the same speed.
Also, most of these old silencers didn't reduce the speed of a bullet enough to make it not go supersonic, which meant you had to also use subsonic ammo.

There were, however, weapons with integral silencers that allowed you to make plain supersonic ammo go subsonic.
 
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Bliblablubb

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The blue (rare) silencer already only reduce dmg by 15% or so. While I haven't seen one, I would assume they might be purple ones reducing it even less. And considering the vast amount of perks and passives increasing dmg while using silenced weapons it's a non-issue anyways.
 

Bliblablubb

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The tech stat is such a stupidly designed clusterfuck btw.
Aside from lockpicking it's only needed for crafting, and in a stupid way. You still need to find the blueprints, get the perks AND level it to almost 20 to be able to craft the iconic stuff if you want to.
Compared to Int, that you just increase it to 20, pick 3 perks to LEARN all schematics and then craft your endgame gear. At lvl15. Yeah...

Of course it's buggy and the passives from the legendary quickhacks kill your framerate and sometimes even your savegame.
This game... :hahano:

Best course is using a trainer, setting tech to 20 in case I want to craft something and forget about that whole stat.
"BUt mY bUiLd!!!!"
Shaddup, you can already kill everything twice and back through walls with tech weapons without a single perk in tech. :argh:
 

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