Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

[Darth Roxor]

Darth Roxor will flog that 4:3 monitor until the day he dies, apparently.

Jokes on you. It died last month but I had a spare one that I'm using right now.

(also it's 5:4)

 

[Sykar]

I will never understand why they so heavily altered the SR rules and allowed dumb shit like 6 spells only and nothing for astral space either outside of descriptive context choices which ere basically exclusive to Hong Kong.

Because it's not easy or cheap to adapt a whole RPG system that has decades worth of content (even BG3 won't adapt all levels). These are obviously lower budget titles and I think they did a good job with them. As for the 6 spells thing, it's probably a balance thing. A limited toolbox could work very well, look at Guild Wars 1.

The system is hardly recognizable for anyone who has actually played the P&P version and a lot of dumb shit like CDs could have been easily avoided with the drain system for example. As to the 6 spells nonsense, the drain mechanics were in place so you had to be damn careful what and when to use. Dragging around an unconcious team member who is bleeding to death from every orifice is not exactly something your team wants at any point. Furthermore spells did not just cost money but also karma to learn in the P&P version and powerful spells also took a lot of time to learn. On top of that taking heavy damage could always damage your magic stat and therefore weakening your magic prowess so you had to be extra careful which is not easy when you go up against cybered up opponents with heavy weaponry or magical creatures. So again complete failure on their part especially considering that they claimed they were fans of the P&P. There is literally no excuse not having the drain system in the cRPG version it is not particularly complex unless you are a blithering retard.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm that way with my 16:10 monitors.

I do miss 16:10, it's pretty perfect for a PC monitor. I have my old one in the closet somewhere, but I don't think I could ever go back to 60hz and v-synch. Maybe if they make a good 16:10 modern panel someday I would jump on it, but going even wider than 16:9 seems to be the niche avenue right now.

 

[Aarwolf]

One thing I liked about cyberspace was when they had you fighting on two battlefields at once: In cyberspace where time moved faster (thus having more turns in a row before switching to the real world) and in the real world where your decker was a sitting duck. It was an underused mechanic that I'd like to see again some way in the future, but with greater interaction between the two battlefields.

That was one of the coolest features, I liked it a lot. Good thing about CP77 (which I liked btw) was that it reminded me about Shadowrun and I'll be playing Dragonfall again soon. I wish there were more of them honestly, even if didn't like Hongkong that much.

 

[Starwars]

I'm replaying Dragonfall at the moment. One thing that I really, really love about these games is the writing. It just seems to hit that specific nerve of being serious yet pulpy enough that it fits into something batshit crazy as the Shadowrun universe. Just the opening, with its talk of Feuerschwinge, the Dragonfall etc etc is just... oh boy material, but they manage to make it work and also make it a really interesting mystery. It's a lot of fun.

The main thing I don't like about these games is the engine and the way it makes the gameplay really, really clunky. From clicking things, to inventories, to combat (which isn't terrible on its own), it just *feels* bad.

 

[Butter]

The UI is by far the worst part of these games. Even consolized RPGs usually do UI better than this. I have a hard time believing none of their testers complained about it.

 

[Trithne]

I will never understand why they so heavily altered the SR rules and allowed dumb shit like 6 spells only and nothing for astral space either outside of descriptive context choices which ere basically exclusive to Hong Kong.

Because it's not easy or cheap to adapt a whole RPG system that has decades worth of content (even BG3 won't adapt all levels). These are obviously lower budget titles and I think they did a good job with them. As for the 6 spells thing, it's probably a balance thing. A limited toolbox could work very well, look at Guild Wars 1.

The system is hardly recognizable for anyone who has actually played the P&P version and a lot of dumb shit like CDs could have been easily avoided with the drain system for example. As to the 6 spells nonsense, the drain mechanics were in place so you had to be damn careful what and when to use. Dragging around an unconcious team member who is bleeding to death from every orifice is not exactly something your team wants at any point. Furthermore spells did not just cost money but also karma to learn in the P&P version and powerful spells also took a lot of time to learn. On top of that taking heavy damage could always damage your magic stat and therefore weakening your magic prowess so you had to be extra careful which is not easy when you go up against cybered up opponents with heavy weaponry or magical creatures. So again complete failure on their part especially considering that they claimed they were fans of the P&P. There is literally no excuse not having the drain system in the cRPG version it is not particularly complex unless you are a blithering retard.

Have you noticed that you don't have to wait for the cooldown to cast a spell again, you can cast it while it's on cooldown by taking some damage?

Drain as it is on the tabletop doesnt map too well to how a crpg plays - it'd be taking random amounts of damage every thing you cast a spell. Also there's no distinction between stun and physical damage, which means implementing drain like that would actually be more dangerous than it is on TT.

These were never intended to be 1:1 adaptations of SR, and thats good because it would be based on the CGL stuff and I didn't come here to play Magicrun.

Not to mention that Shadowrun is a great setting with horrible rules, when even the TT community suggests using things like Blades in the Dark to play the game instead of the game itself, it makes sense why they went with a rule set that looks like SR but isn't exactly.

 

[DalekFlay]

Okay finished it. 24 hours according to Galaxy.

First off "very hard" or whatever is quite easy in the second half. I know a lot of games balance around you not doing everything, but in a smaller game like this they probably shouldn't have done that. There were some challenges early on and some reloads when randomness fucked me, but in the second half the game I felt like I barely had to pay attention. Two big "bosses" in the last two missions being exceptions, mostly because of finicky objectives you had to juggle. Anyway... gameplay is still enjoyable, nothing amazing but nothing bad really. Despite the very "cheap" production values they sell the action quite well with good sound design (meaty weapon sounds for example).

Real reason to play the game is the writing and story though, let's be honest. The writing is so good, and while I'm sure a lot of the C&C is a mirage it does a great job making you feel like you are defining events. The mood and tone is perfect too, and I really hope we get more Shadowrun someday as I find the world fascinating. When I played the first time I think I quit around the point of no return for whatever reason, so playing act 3 for the first time I was quite happy with how it all panned out. Time to read a wiki about dragons though, as some of the lore was a bit confusing like how X and Y are separated physically and whatnot.

Having finished all three now I am more sure than I already was that Dragonfall is the best. Hong Kong had some more meat on its bones iirc, but Dragonfall has a better story which is the main reason to play these.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

I REALLY enjoyed the Shadowrun series, I'd be more than happy with more of the same, or even give them a much bigger budget and a better engine and told to go nuts.

..as for Dragonfall, a really, really, fun game with an interesting and engaging story and THIS into the bargain...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDm8-IunBAs

Dragonfall knocked it out of the park (and makes me lament for what CP 2077 could have been).

 

[razvedchiki]

cyberpunk 2077 could never be like the shadowrun games because it was made for a different market.
if it was made from HBS or another similar company then maybe.

 

[razvedchiki]

Okay finished it. 24 hours according to Galaxy.

First off "very hard" or whatever is quite easy in the second half. I know a lot of games balance around you not doing everything, but in a smaller game like this they probably shouldn't have done that. There were some challenges early on and some reloads when randomness fucked me, but in the second half the game I felt like I barely had to pay attention. Two big "bosses" in the last two missions being exceptions, mostly because of finicky objectives you had to juggle. Anyway... gameplay is still enjoyable, nothing amazing but nothing bad really. Despite the very "cheap" production values they sell the action quite well with good sound design (meaty weapon sounds for example).

Real reason to play the game is the writing and story though, let's be honest. The writing is so good, and while I'm sure a lot of the C&C is a mirage it does a great job making you feel like you are defining events. The mood and tone is perfect too, and I really hope we get more Shadowrun someday as I find the world fascinating. When I played the first time I think I quit around the point of no return for whatever reason, so playing act 3 for the first time I was quite happy with how it all panned out. Time to read a wiki about dragons though, as some of the lore was a bit confusing like how X and Y are separated physically and whatnot.

Having finished all three now I am more sure than I already was that Dragonfall is the best. Hong Kong had some more meat on its bones iirc, but Dragonfall has a better story which is the main reason to play these.

did you use the 2ap agris mod?

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

cyberpunk 2077 could never be like the shadowrun games because it was made for a different market.
if it was made from HBS or another similar company then maybe.

Turn based vs real time doesn't 'really' separate the audience CP was still supposed to be a true rpg with depth, which I will give the nod to shadowrun doing a good job on.

So, no.. I have to disagree with you... it was still made for the 'real'(?) RPG audience.

 

[razvedchiki]

im not taalking about the combat system only.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

im not taalking about the combat system only.

Well EXPLAIN your comment then instead of posting a vague comment that your readers have to assume the point of.

"aww.. they were chasing different audiences."

Really, how so.. and what audiences are these?

(I was expecting an answer to this.. but he ran away.)

 

[razvedchiki]

Joined:
Today

 

[Raghar]

Darth Roxor will flog that 4:3 monitor until the day he dies, apparently.

Jokes on you. It died last month but I had a spare one that I'm using right now.

(also it's 5:4)

5:4 LCD with advanced PVA are great for office jobs.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

Joined:
Today

..and how does that affect what I'm saying or the point I'm making?

........ nice sidestep of the issue though. You avoided that with all the deft of CDPR avoiding fulfilling their promises.

 

[Trithne]

Joined:
Today

..and how does that affect what I'm saying or the point I'm making?

........ nice sidestep of the issue though. You avoided that with all the deft of CDPR avoiding fulfilling their promises.

CP77 was never intended to be an rpg is the point. Maybe back when they announced it a million years ago, but since then Witcher 3 showed them they didn't need robust rpg mechanics and gta5 made all the money, so they decided to make gta5 with the veneer of an rpg and a cyberpunk skin.

The HBS SR games were always intended to be classic rpgs. That's what they were pitched as and they stayed true to that.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

CP77 was never intended to be an rpg is the point.

THAT IS A LIE PROPAGATED BY PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FACE BEING LET DOWN BY THIS GAME... I SEE PEOPLE WRITING THIS SHITE EVERYWHERE.

This game was NEVER intended to be anything BUT as indepth an experience as W3... IT was sold as such from the beginning and that pretence was held right up to release.

NEVER AT ANY POINT DID THEY SAY OR INFER ANYTHING ELSE.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm pretty sure they said it was an RPG at one point. If someone has the patience to comb through early marketing to find that, I'm sure everything would be revealed.

 

[V_K]

It's a CDPR game. Anyone excepting anything other than Witcher 3 with guns was/is delusional.

 

[Lacrymas]

It turned out worse than Twitcher 3 with guns, and Twitcher 3 is already not a good game.

 

[eXalted]

I was on a conference eons ago (maybe when the chick with the blades teaser was released) where they talked about how they will be following the tabletop rules as closely as possible. They even mentioned how they are collaborating with Mike Pondsmith.

 

[V_K]

hey are collaborating with Mike Pondsmith.

Doesn't mean much. Harebrained are headed Jordan Weissman who designed the original SR PnP rules - and we all know how much of that made it into the adaptation.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

It's a CDPR game. Anyone excepting anything other than Witcher 3 with guns was/is delusional.

I'd have been a hell of a lot happier with "Witcher with guns" than this shallow, linear bullshit that we got. CP 2077 doesn't have a fraction of the mean on it's bone that W3 has.... and I think that's the main issue people have with it.