Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Question about stat checks in dialogues

Which do you prefer?


  • Total voters
    57

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
Hey guys. So i have a simple question - what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.
I'm making my own RPG game and personally prefer the latter with certain checks, but if it turns out that overwhelming majority prefers the dice rolls. maybe i'll have to rethink my approach.
I thank you in advance for your cooperation :salute:
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,523
You forgot the Kingcomrade option, CP2077's guaranteed failure choices.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,560
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Either way can work, in my opinion.

On one hand, a random chance for success weighted by the character's skill in Speechcraft or whatever adds a certain thrill to the game element, guaranteeing at least some chance of success.

On the other, if you simply lack the skill to convince that particular NPC of your agenda or to extract from him what you want to learn from him, tough titties.

Maybe the question is, which system is more "realistic"? Are there random chances of success when speaking to someone in real life, whether you'll convince them of your stance or viewpoint, or is it already set?
 

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
Either way can work, in my opinion.

On one hand, a random chance for success weighted by the character's skill in Speechcraft or whatever adds a certain thrill to the game element, guaranteeing at least some chance of success.

On the other, if you simply lack the skill to convince that particular NPC of your agenda or to extract from him what you want to learn from him, tough titties.

Maybe the question is, which system is more "realistic"? Are there random chances of success when speaking to someone in real life, whether you'll convince them of your stance or viewpoint, or is it already set?
This is the most problematic thing in game design where you have to make compromises - trying to balance between realism and fun gameplay. Dice roll choices on one hand are closer to how conversations turn out in real life, but on the other they can infuriate player when he fails a 95% success check and push him closer to the dark side of save scumming.
I want to make hardcoded checks more realistic where they depend not only on your sheer charisma or some other stat. but also on your reputation with the person or his faction. where you have to pass both those checks in order to succeed
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,560
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Seems like you answered your own question, then.

btw, "kc" as a poll option is an old Codex tradition. It's complicated. It means nothing, ultimately.
 

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
Seems like you answered your own question, then.
Yep those were my reasons for preferring this approach. I just wanted to make sure, that this approach is not universally hated

btw, "kc" as a poll option is an old Codex tradition. It's complicated. It means nothing, ultimately.
Noted. Can't edit my post, but I will keep that in mind for the next time
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.
Neither. Screw binary skillchecks.
Do a persuasion/reaction system like in Morrowind, or a resource pool like in Numenera or The Council (i.e. the lower your stat, the more resource you need to spend to succeed) - just something that can be gamed rather than metagamed.
 

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
what type of skill checks do you prefer in an RPG? More relevant to dialogues. Classic dice rolling like DnD and Disco Elysium or a more certain outcome approach like in Cyberpunk or New Vegas where you have a numeric skill or stat barrier and if you pass it. that is a 100% check success.
Neither. Screw binary skillchecks.
Do a persuasion/reaction system like in Morrowind, or a resource pool like in Numenera or The Council (i.e. the lower your stat, the more resource you need to spend to succeed) - just something that can be gamed rather than metagamed.
There won't be any out of the blue "choose this to persuade" answers. In order to even get this option, you'll have to chose appropriate responses from the start of the dialogue and carefully build it from there. At least that's how I'm trying to write them. There could be options like "if you have 10 Intelligence or more, say some smart thing" which won't require any prerequisite buildup, but such options won't be problem solvers or quest completers
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,476
I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.
 

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.
Absolutely agree with you on that. That's why there won't be any indication in dialogue choices wherever it is based on some stat or event or it is an always available default option. Nothing like this PoE stuff

poedialoguewindowklym9.png
 

Tony Lynx

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
12
Hardcoded checks, otherwise I will savescum until I get the desired result if I really care about it. I need developers to actively stop me from ruining my own fun, fuck.
Exactly my thoughts. Disco Elysium was so infuriating in that regard. I want content blocked and story progressed purely because of my choices and not because of some random number generator
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,898
Location
The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I don't really care if its a roll of the dice or not, but I've grown to dislike games where the persuade option is very blatantly marked. Takes the choice out of things when its obvious that I'll choose that option if I've put points into it.
Either that or go 100% in and colour it like VtM:B.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
It depends on what else the game is about, but generally threshold checks seem a better default to start off with. There's not a really solid gameplay justification for pushing dice rolls in this particular instance. And honestly, the crux of any skill-checks in dialogues is how you handle failure states & multiple paths to victory. The questions about dice v. threshold, shown v. hidden, is really secondary.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom