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Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
But if you do all of that to the WC franchise, you're removing most of the well-known parts of the lore (WC 3 + WoW)
Ah, music to my ears. Really, though, you'll just have to rewrite a few things to tell the same story, just better. Nothing is stopping the Lich King from becoming that without the involvement of demons. You don't need that extra motivation for Arthas, he's already down for the slaughter from day 1. The undead could assault mount Hyjal on their own. You'll just remove Illidan basically and every mention of demonic hierarchies. Kel'Thuzad could just be summoning a mass of demons without being forced to by the demons themselves. The characters need their own motivations without external puppetry. The first game in this hypothetical reboot would be a retelling of WC1 and 2. That way the groundwork can be set up to change the story of WC3 a little bit. I honestly think this is their best option going forward. A new IP is not Blizzard's strong suit atm, Overwatch is garbage as a setting/universe for example.

Interesting. It could be done story-wise, but I'm not seeing Blizzard trying anything new with Warcraft in the short term
 

Storyfag

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But if you do all of that to the WC franchise, you're removing most of the well-known parts of the lore (WC 3 + WoW)
Ah, music to my ears. Really, though, you'll just have to rewrite a few things to tell the same story, just better. Nothing is stopping the Lich King from becoming that without the involvement of demons. You don't need that extra motivation for Arthas, he's already down for the slaughter from day 1. The undead could assault mount Hyjal on their own. You'll just remove Illidan basically and every mention of demonic hierarchies. Kel'Thuzad could just be summoning a mass of demons without being forced to by the demons themselves. The characters need their own motivations without external puppetry. The first game in this hypothetical reboot would be a retelling of WC1 and 2. That way the groundwork can be set up to change the story of WC3 a little bit. I honestly think this is their best option going forward. A new IP is not Blizzard's strong suit atm, Overwatch is garbage as a setting/universe for example.

You seem to be forgetting the demons were in it from the start. They are responsible for the Orcs' arrival in Azeroth. I am not saying changes would not be possible. But their scope would be too large to retain any benefit of keeping it a WarCraft setting.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Medivh could research the spells needed to open the dark portal on his own. I don't remember how that looked like from the orcs' perspective, but they could use their warlock magics to contact Medivh in order for him to know to open the portal in the first place. If you mean the demons were in WC1 as a unit summoned by the warlocks, that's not an issue at all. The demons as creatures can still exist and be summoned by warlocks, just no hierarchies and grand cosmic plans.

As for the demons in WC3, especially Mal'Ganis, his role can be taken over by Kel'Thuzad himself. Instead of dying in like the fourth mission, he could be the one to lure Arthas to Northrend. Then his resurrection by Arthas would be more poetically ironic.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I seem to be on an RTS binge for some reason lately and was thinking of replaying the WC3 campaign for the bajillionth time. Did the Refunded patches that are applied to the non-Refunded version totally destroy the Reign of Chaos campaigns' balance? I vaguely remember reading something like that, but I'm not sure. I just want to know whether I can update it to the latest patch or just play with the old one I have installed right now.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,379
But if you do all of that to the WC franchise, you're removing most of the well-known parts of the lore (WC 3 + WoW)
Ah, music to my ears. Really, though, you'll just have to rewrite a few things to tell the same story, just better. Nothing is stopping the Lich King from becoming that without the involvement of demons. You don't need that extra motivation for Arthas, he's already down for the slaughter from day 1. The undead could assault mount Hyjal on their own. You'll just remove Illidan basically and every mention of demonic hierarchies. Kel'Thuzad could just be summoning a mass of demons without being forced to by the demons themselves. The characters need their own motivations without external puppetry. The first game in this hypothetical reboot would be a retelling of WC1 and 2. That way the groundwork can be set up to change the story of WC3 a little bit. I honestly think this is their best option going forward. A new IP is not Blizzard's strong suit atm, Overwatch is garbage as a setting/universe for example.

You seem to be forgetting the demons were in it from the start. They are responsible for the Orcs' arrival in Azeroth. I am not saying changes would not be possible. But their scope would be too large to retain any benefit of keeping it a WarCraft setting.

Concept of demons in W1/2 was totally different, though. Not a big quibble, just putting that out there. They even called it "Hell" in W2. It was pretty transparently a copy of Warhammer/Earth mythology at that point.
 
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Did the Refunded patches that are applied to the non-Refunded version totally destroy the Reign of Chaos campaigns' balance? I vaguely remember reading something like that, but I'm not sure. I just want to know whether I can update it to the latest patch or just play with the old one I have installed right now.
I remember reading that as well. The patches were so few and far between I stopped checking to see if Blizzard did anything positive for it. For offline/campaign I just keep a backup install of the latest pre-refunded version that's totally sourced from my discs and has nothing to do with the 7 seas.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I googled it and it turns out the balance is only fucked when you play with the new graphics (if you have them).
 

whydoibother

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Just pirate it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Pirated copies allow you to manually patch up to whatever version you like. I was playing some custom campaigns a few months ago, on the pre-reforged build.

once more pirate CHADS having a superior experience to paypigs
 

Storyfag

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But if you do all of that to the WC franchise, you're removing most of the well-known parts of the lore (WC 3 + WoW)
Ah, music to my ears. Really, though, you'll just have to rewrite a few things to tell the same story, just better. Nothing is stopping the Lich King from becoming that without the involvement of demons. You don't need that extra motivation for Arthas, he's already down for the slaughter from day 1. The undead could assault mount Hyjal on their own. You'll just remove Illidan basically and every mention of demonic hierarchies. Kel'Thuzad could just be summoning a mass of demons without being forced to by the demons themselves. The characters need their own motivations without external puppetry. The first game in this hypothetical reboot would be a retelling of WC1 and 2. That way the groundwork can be set up to change the story of WC3 a little bit. I honestly think this is their best option going forward. A new IP is not Blizzard's strong suit atm, Overwatch is garbage as a setting/universe for example.

You seem to be forgetting the demons were in it from the start. They are responsible for the Orcs' arrival in Azeroth. I am not saying changes would not be possible. But their scope would be too large to retain any benefit of keeping it a WarCraft setting.

Concept of demons in W1/2 was totally different, though. Not a big quibble, just putting that out there. They even called it "Hell" in W2. It was pretty transparently a copy of Warhammer/Earth mythology at that point.

Still, the greater plot was already in place. Sargeras, the Guardians, Medivh, etc. All there in the WC2 manual. Granted, it wasn't detailed yet and remained pretty vague.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
As I said, Medivh and the orcs could be collaborating without the guidance of demon princes or whatever. The demons would still exist because warlocks are an essential part of this setting, but Sargeras and named demon lords like Kil'Jaeden won't. The demons should only be a tool that furthers the conflict and bloodshed between the factions, and not a faction of their own. Every conflict that could potentially lead to the Horde and Alliance working together should be removed.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
I googled it and it turns out the balance is only fucked when you play with the new graphics (if you have them).

I recently played through it and i encountered no issues on hard (unless things got easier and I didn't notice it). I heard some whining that some missions became a lot harder or even impossible due to changes with armour but I certainly didn't notice anything.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I decided against downloading the patch because it's like 30 GB. It downloads the Refunded graphics even if you don't have it. I'm not YouTube's storage capacity.
 

Storyfag

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As I said, Medivh and the orcs could be collaborating without the guidance of demon princes or whatever. The demons would still exist because warlocks are an essential part of this setting, but Sargeras and named demon lords like Kil'Jaeden won't. The demons should only be a tool that furthers the conflict and bloodshed between the factions, and not a faction of their own. Every conflict that could potentially lead to the Horde and Alliance working together should be removed.

Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
 

Lacrymas

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Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
As I said, Medivh and the orcs could be collaborating without the guidance of demon princes or whatever. The demons would still exist because warlocks are an essential part of this setting, but Sargeras and named demon lords like Kil'Jaeden won't. The demons should only be a tool that furthers the conflict and bloodshed between the factions, and not a faction of their own. Every conflict that could potentially lead to the Horde and Alliance working together should be removed.

Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
Yeah. I honestly (still) think rebooting the entire franchise is the best thing Blizzard can do with it right now hands down. Make a new RTS with a campaign that retells the WC1 and 2 stories while retconing some stuff in order to better set the stage for further narrative development (and WoW2). They could do only Warcraft 1 of course, but they need to come up with at least a third faction in order to do their signature asymmetric balance thing. It will be a good PR move too.
 

vota DC

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Aug 23, 2016
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As I said, Medivh and the orcs could be collaborating without the guidance of demon princes or whatever. The demons would still exist because warlocks are an essential part of this setting, but Sargeras and named demon lords like Kil'Jaeden won't. The demons should only be a tool that furthers the conflict and bloodshed between the factions, and not a faction of their own. Every conflict that could potentially lead to the Horde and Alliance working together should be removed.

Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
Yeah. I honestly (still) think rebooting the entire franchise is the best thing Blizzard can do with it right now hands down. Make a new RTS with a campaign that retells the WC1 and 2 stories while retconing some stuff in order to better set the stage for further narrative development (and WoW2). They could do only Warcraft 1 of course, but they need to come up with at least a third faction in order to do their signature asymmetric balance thing. It will be a good PR move too.
They should do a dynamic campaign like most of Emperor Battle for Dune where you can even ally with Fremen when playing Harkonnen, without fixed stuff (emperor begin well but at the end tleilaxu are always hostile and huge worm Is always the final boss). For example Ogres can be allied since Warcraft I or still enemies even during Warcraft II.

Also underground like Armies of Exigo.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
They could do that, yeah, but I was mostly thinking about multiplayer with the 3 factions thing. Going back to orcs vs humans, while cool, prestigious, and pedigreed, isn't really the atmosphere in which asymmetric balance can flourish and the temptation to just mirror the factions like in 1 and 2 to cut costs would be great. They can also pull a Starcraft 2 and make super long campaigns for each of the Warcraft RTSes up to now that get gradually released like the expansions to Starcraft 2. I might prefer that actually, depending on the gameplay. By going that route, they can introduce all 4 of the factions at once, like the 3 in SC2.

I'd keep the orcs more warlock-y, rather than shamanic, and less savage in the sense of loincloths and spears, but more bloodthirsty and warmongering. That would have quite a lot of effects on the other factions as well, the tauren would be less likely to join them en masse for example. Which means they might get conquered by the centaurs, which in turn get slaughtered by the undead later on, making undead tauren a group within the undead instead of within the orcs.

I also think a WoW2 would need at least 3 factions, not 2, so a general restructuring of the race dynamics/relationships is a must.
 
Last edited:

baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
As I said, Medivh and the orcs could be collaborating without the guidance of demon princes or whatever. The demons would still exist because warlocks are an essential part of this setting, but Sargeras and named demon lords like Kil'Jaeden won't. The demons should only be a tool that furthers the conflict and bloodshed between the factions, and not a faction of their own. Every conflict that could potentially lead to the Horde and Alliance working together should be removed.

Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
Yeah. I honestly (still) think rebooting the entire franchise is the best thing Blizzard can do with it right now hands down. Make a new RTS with a campaign that retells the WC1 and 2 stories while retconing some stuff in order to better set the stage for further narrative development (and WoW2). They could do only Warcraft 1 of course, but they need to come up with at least a third faction in order to do their signature asymmetric balance thing. It will be a good PR move too.

I don't think Blizzard will reboot the Warcraft universe anytime soon, especially as WoW is still going strong (not as strong as its heyday, but it's still the biggest paying MMO, right?). Because while Blizzard is actively developing new content for WoW, they wouldn't want to confuse their average fans of what's going on in that universe. And even if WoW was dead/in maintenance mode, Blizzard would be still leery of going back and redoing all the lore, again because of the risk of angering the fans, especially going back to Warcraft 1 & 2: at this point it'd be easier to create something new
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
The current WoW will continue as it is because there's no way Blizzard are going to let that cashcow die. And they shouldn't, they should just use some of that money to fund a reboot that will eventually turn into WoW2.
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
I hope you guys have phones, because the real Warcraft game is coming:



CFieCcx.png


Blizzard doing an Arthas arc.
 
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Already been a year huh.
Hi everyone!

Just would like to let everyone know the status of WC3 right now. in the wake of Reforged's release and 1 year anniversary, despite Blizzard's lackadaisical approach to it, we the community are still enjoying WarCraft 3 in 2021. Thanks to content creators and the W3Champions mod team that has been ramping up efforts for WC3's continued survival, our passion for the game continues strongly.

The bad: 1) Blizzard lost most if not all of their classic development team that was administering updates to Warcraft: Reforged and they left the project in an incomplete state. We haven't gotten updates from them in over half a year. Key features that were part of original WC3 are still missing, such as a ranked system, profiles, clans, automated tournaments, and Battle.net features like /stats, /friend add, and more. 2) At Blizzconline, Blizzard didn't mention the word Reforged at all. They did mention "WC3" in reference to the esports that dreamhack/ESL are doing, but they didn't mention WC3 Reforged development at all.

The good: 1) Nearly all of the games you see here on YouTube are made possible thanks to W3C, with them offering better servers, better ping for most players especially from South Korea, Brazil and Peru and other South American countries, Russia and many more. The 4on4 RT games on W3C have almost no griefing (backstabbing or afk'ing etc.). The MMR and matchmaking are better. The game quality in 1on1 is better and more competitive. 2) W3C team has already re-introduced profiles, icons, ranked ladder, stats, stats analysis, an improved battle.net UI interface, and all you have to do is download the launcher and use it, essentially using a modded version of the game. You can still play on regular BNet even if you get this app, it's just all around an improvement. 3) Now there's even automated tournaments coming (currently on the W3Champions PTR, a test server). Just like we used to have back in early WC3! It's pretty awesome.

The future: There is still a chance that Blizzard restores some of the lost features that WC3 suffered after the horrible (and deserved) release of Reforged with its Metacritic score of 0.5/10. Whether they'd be as good as the W3Champions features remains to be seen, of course. Although it seemed like Reforged is totally abandoned by Blizzard, they *MAY* still come back to it. Vicarious Visions is development studio within Activision that got moved into Blizzard entirely to work on remasters. “According to Bloomberg, issues with the development of Warcraft III: Reforged made Blizzard reconsider the teams it had developing games moving forward, with its classic games “Team 1” being pulled off the project and replaced by a division that is also handling Diablo 4. Among the developers also working on that project includes the Vicarious Visions team.”

TLDR modders have done more work to fix up Warcraft 3 than Blizzard ever did. Truly the Bethesda of the RTS genre.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Already been a year huh.
Hi everyone!

Just would like to let everyone know the status of WC3 right now. in the wake of Reforged's release and 1 year anniversary, despite Blizzard's lackadaisical approach to it, we the community are still enjoying WarCraft 3 in 2021. Thanks to content creators and the W3Champions mod team that has been ramping up efforts for WC3's continued survival, our passion for the game continues strongly.

The bad: 1) Blizzard lost most if not all of their classic development team that was administering updates to Warcraft: Reforged and they left the project in an incomplete state. We haven't gotten updates from them in over half a year. Key features that were part of original WC3 are still missing, such as a ranked system, profiles, clans, automated tournaments, and Battle.net features like /stats, /friend add, and more. 2) At Blizzconline, Blizzard didn't mention the word Reforged at all. They did mention "WC3" in reference to the esports that dreamhack/ESL are doing, but they didn't mention WC3 Reforged development at all.

The good: 1) Nearly all of the games you see here on YouTube are made possible thanks to W3C, with them offering better servers, better ping for most players especially from South Korea, Brazil and Peru and other South American countries, Russia and many more. The 4on4 RT games on W3C have almost no griefing (backstabbing or afk'ing etc.). The MMR and matchmaking are better. The game quality in 1on1 is better and more competitive. 2) W3C team has already re-introduced profiles, icons, ranked ladder, stats, stats analysis, an improved battle.net UI interface, and all you have to do is download the launcher and use it, essentially using a modded version of the game. You can still play on regular BNet even if you get this app, it's just all around an improvement. 3) Now there's even automated tournaments coming (currently on the W3Champions PTR, a test server). Just like we used to have back in early WC3! It's pretty awesome.

The future: There is still a chance that Blizzard restores some of the lost features that WC3 suffered after the horrible (and deserved) release of Reforged with its Metacritic score of 0.5/10. Whether they'd be as good as the W3Champions features remains to be seen, of course. Although it seemed like Reforged is totally abandoned by Blizzard, they *MAY* still come back to it. Vicarious Visions is development studio within Activision that got moved into Blizzard entirely to work on remasters. “According to Bloomberg, issues with the development of Warcraft III: Reforged made Blizzard reconsider the teams it had developing games moving forward, with its classic games “Team 1” being pulled off the project and replaced by a division that is also handling Diablo 4. Among the developers also working on that project includes the Vicarious Visions team.”

TLDR modders have done more work to fix up Warcraft 3 than Blizzard ever did. Truly the Bethesda of the RTS genre.

This is usually the case though.
 

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