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CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.
Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077. :positive:

As requested....

False-reflection-1.jpg

False-reflection-2.jpg
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
I thought it was common knowledge that reflections don't exist. That's why they make you "turn on" the mirrors to show the player. I guess people assumed that only applied to the player? But I certainly wouldn't have bet on that.

Yes, I did assume it was player character only, maybe because of the clothing or something.

What the fuck is the point of having raytracing if it's not doing the reflections?.. That's virtually the only reason it has to exist.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.
Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077. :positive:

As requested....

False-reflection-1.jpg

False-reflection-2.jpg
most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them

Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.
 

Tyrr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,257
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.
Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077. :positive:

As requested....

False-reflection-1.jpg

False-reflection-2.jpg
Is this with or without Ray Tracing reflections?

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,136
most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them
Dunno what's going on there and whether that's dynamic or prebaked, but if it's the former, it might be ad system screwing up. It's the one system that's constantly bugging out for me, billboard ads get dynamically streamed in and out every time they come into the viewing frustrum and they'll often lag and load low-res LOD variants in my case.

Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.
You do realise you're whining about a mismatched fucking reflection, right? Cyberpunk needs excuses for plenty of things, but this ain't one of them, bugs like this are a dime a dozen.

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.
What graphics card? Edit - nVidia thread with people saying doing a clean reinstall of the latest drivers unbricked DLSS for them:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...n-cyberpunk-2077-on-rtx-2060-but/?topicPage=1
 
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Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.
You do realise you're whining about a mismatched fucking reflection, right? Cyberpunk needs excuses for plenty of things, but this ain't one of them, bugs like this are a dime a dozen.

It's not a bug though.. yes, not the 'biggest' issue, but at this point it's just more fuel for the fire.

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.
What graphics card? Edit - nVidia thread with people saying doing a clean reinstall of the latest drivers unbricked DLSS for them:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...n-cyberpunk-2077-on-rtx-2060-but/?topicPage=1

2070s. Yeah, tried that, didn't fix anything... I 'think' is because I'm using the Win7 version and I 'think' it's because some their rtx/dlss support comes from the Geforce Experience application (people also report installing this works), and if I'm unwilling to use an OS that spies on me, I'm certainly never going to use a programme that exists only for stream purposes and data collection.
 

msxyz

Augur
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
296
I've just found out that the reflections, or at least some of them, aren't real.

In the Dewdrop netrunner store, the glass isn't reflecting the poster that's being displayed, it's a different one.

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

.....Just Fuck this game.
Most reflections are cubic maps taken during development. (A cubic map it's the planar projection of a 360° fisheye lens, so you just need 6x 'normal' textures). I remember using a lot of them in my days modding UT2003/2004 because just about every shiny object uses them in place of complex shaders (cubic maps are a technique available since DX7). I believe also Half Life 2 and all its Source engine derivatives use prebaked cubic maps for a lot of normal lighting stuff and the editor can generate them automatically. Much less intensive than having to redraw the level from the viewpoint of the reflected surface for each mirror object.

'True' reflections' computed by rendering again the the scene are usually reserved for special surfaces like a large body of water and even then, the in-game settings allow you to specify how much 'complex' these reflections should be. I'm pretty sure all those offices / interior spaces you see from the windows in Cyberpunk 2077 are also just cubic maps. They're very fast to handle as the hardware texture unit only has to retrieve the right texel in 3d space (u,v,w) instead of 2d (u,v) as for a traditional texture.

Ray tracing in hardware is not magic, in fact it's pretty limited compared to what an offline software raytracer can do.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
I've just found out that the reflections, or at least some of them, aren't real.

In the Dewdrop netrunner store, the glass isn't reflecting the poster that's being displayed, it's a different one.

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

.....Just Fuck this game.
Most reflections are cubic maps taken during development. (A cubic map it's the planar projection of a 360° fisheye lens, so you just need 6x 'normal' textures). I remember using a lot of them in my days modding UT2003/2004 because just about every shiny object uses them in place of complex shaders (cubic maps are a technique available since DX7). I believe also Half Life 2 and all its Source engine derivatives use prebaked cubic maps for a lot of normal lighting stuff and the editor can generate them automatically. Much less intensive than having to redraw the level from the viewpoint of the reflected surface for each mirror object.

'True' reflections' computed by rendering again the the scene are usually reserved for special surfaces like a large body of water and even then, the in-game settings allow you to specify how much 'complex' these reflections should be. I'm pretty sure all those offices / interior spaces you see from the windows in Cyberpunk 2077 are also just cubic maps. They're very fast to handle as the hardware texture unit only has to retrieve the right texel in 3d space (u,v,w) instead of 2d (u,v) as for a traditional texture.

Ray tracing in hardware is not magic, in fact it's pretty limited compared to what an offline software raytracer can do.

Randy said something similar, and I accept PREVIOUS games did it differently, HOWEVER, we're now talking RTX. This game is pushing RTX/DLSS.. it's not the first game to do this but the FACT of the matter is that EVERY other game that has pushed RTX has been all about the reflection, that's literally been the party line since it was introduced.. "Look 'at dem reflections".. and for this game to also push RTX but not use the one feature it exists to produce is just fucking outrageous .
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
Just play it for the story. I played DX:IW for the story. And liked it.

Me too *Thumbs up*

The first time (sorry fuzzy memory) I saw that dude merc who had been turned in to one of the robot things with the masks.. freaked me the fuck out. That is a gaming moment that has stayed with me.

I have to admit though... I find the CP 2077 story, writing and characters (I kinda like River and fam but they are the best of a bad lot and it absolutely ruined a good buddy buddy moment by asking me if I wanted to kiss him) ... a big, economy sized bag of shit. I'm literally only playing the game to shoot things in the face for catharsis of my home bound frustration... and it's still boring the shit out of me.
 
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Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,579
Randy said something similar, and I accept PREVIOUS games did it differently, HOWEVER, we're now talking RTX. This game is pushing RTX/DLSS.. it's not the first game to do this but the FACT of the matter is that EVERY other game that has pushed RTX has been all about the reflection, that's literally been the party line since it was introduced.. "Look 'at dem reflections".. and for this game to also push RTX but not use the one feature it exists to produce is just fucking outrageous .
The game needs at least one full year of additional development and has so many problems no wonder RTX is fucked up.

They probably had several people working on this, most of whom do not work there anymore.

Just imagine, 500 people under this management. This project was a nightmare.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
76
Randy said something similar, and I accept PREVIOUS games did it differently, HOWEVER, we're now talking RTX. This game is pushing RTX/DLSS.. it's not the first game to do this but the FACT of the matter is that EVERY other game that has pushed RTX has been all about the reflection, that's literally been the party line since it was introduced.. "Look 'at dem reflections".. and for this game to also push RTX but not use the one feature it exists to produce is just fucking outrageous .
The game needs at least one full year of additional development and has so many problems no wonder RTX is fucked up.

They probably had several people working on this, most of whom do not work there anymore.

Just imagine, 500 people under this management. This project was a nightmare.

...and I would say that only one year is optimistic, in the extreme. I would say that for something of this scale we definitely needed the full eight years, not 4 years of dicking around, a restart, two further years of dicking around and another restart/reimagining.

Yes, the entire production history of this game was a travesty.
 

typical user

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
957
Music and sounds are great in general but sound design in this game sucks balls deep:
  • You have ambient score fighting with killer tracks on the radio all the time, how about some silence instead of music blasting from speakers on every street corner? Dark Souls comes to mind how they use silence as ambience itself. Don't need to listen to the same Tyger Claws theme everytime I am close to some random gonks on the street.
  • The city itself is pretty quiet, I mean there is no ambient sound of traffic in the distance, only sounds of AVs or jets close-by, in GTA V you can hear motorbikes in the distance and general "city noise". Night City is surprisingly quiet compared to Los Santos. Try walking in the forest in Witcher 3 with disabled music. That's the sort of atmosphere you are missing while walking the streets in Cyberpunk.
  • The game is missing tons of details, for example your character makes a noise while opening car's door, but your companion is dead-silent in almost every action. Other actions like companion footsteps or hiding dead bodies in containers is so damn loud. Also you would expect characters to shout in clubs and nightbars. When you speak with Claire or Mateo it's like chit-chat next to a coffee machine in an office instead of a club with loud music. The game doesn't need to be loud as jet-engines but put some effort in those locations. Characters in RDR2 are screaming at each other if you are far while riding on your horse. In GTA V you get an audio-filter when you are far from other character to simulate talking through comms. In CP2077 some characters have no such filter when holding a convo' on a phone. Regina Jones in one quest sounds like she is speaking through a phone and in the next quest outside Watson like she is standing next to you.
  • It's more on AI but tied to sound design too. Enemies do not react to sounds while you are sneaking. If you force open shutters or doors close-by you would expect them to be alarmed. When you jump you also make no noise in their perspective etc.
  • Also have you noticed there is no reverb or muffled sounds when discharging a weapon in small rooms or huge hallways? If there is then those situations are rare. Your gun makes the same sound in-doors and outside buildings. Same with grenades thrown under water.
  • This last one is a personal preference but Royce and Adam Smasher are spamming their combat bark-lines every 2 seconds.

All those issues show again the game was rushed.
 
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Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Well, I find it interesting that the enemies also are not alarmed by blowing their cameras out.
I can understand hacking the camera and making it "Friendly". But destroying it or even turning it off? Shouldn't someone notice?
 

Justicar

Dead game
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
4,413
Location
Afghanistan
  • It's more on AI but tied to sound design too. Enemies do not react to sounds while you are sneaking. If you force open shutters or doors close-by you would expect them to be alarmed. When you jump you also make no noise in their perspective etc.
Its inconsistent sometimes ai will react when you knock shit over and make noise sometimes they wont care, example:

 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,424
Location
Grand Chien
Lmao they didn't even have time to make the NPCs mouths' move when they speak, you think they are gonna bother with any of this in-depth sound design

And the AI is almost non-existent in this game just like every other triple A game released in the last 5-10 years, hardly surprising they don't notice stuff like that
 

Justicar

Dead game
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
4,413
Location
Afghanistan
Lmao they didn't even have time to make the NPCs mouths' move when they speak,
That's 100% a bug of their lip syncing system can sometimes happen in main missions on ps4 character will speak but their mouths will stay shut on pc I saw it happen only to random pedestrians most of the time they will have animation but sometimes it glitches out and the mouths stay shut.
 

typical user

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
957
  • It's more on AI but tied to sound design too. Enemies do not react to sounds while you are sneaking. If you force open shutters or doors close-by you would expect them to be alarmed. When you jump you also make no noise in their perspective etc.
Its inconsistent sometimes ai will react when you knock shit over and make noise sometimes they wont care, example:



That's because those boxes can be hacked. Enemies have to react to them when they are standing close or you would have another example of braindead AI.

Also this video (watch from timestamp) has been posted everywhere but it actually made me realize the sound design is half-baked, before I didn't notice those issues:
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,424
Location
Grand Chien
Lmao they didn't even have time to make the NPCs mouths' move when they speak,
That's 100% a bug of their lip syncing system can sometimes happen in main missions on ps4 character will speak but their mouths will stay shut on pc I saw it happen only to random pedestrians most of the time they will have animation but sometimes it glitches out and the mouths stay shut.
Yes and it illustrates how little time was spent bugfixing and polishing, it shows that the time before launch was spent desperately getting major mechanics & game systems in place, with no time for little details like this
 

Bliblablubb

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
2,925
Location
Copium Den
I thought it was common knowledge that reflections don't exist.
For something that does not exist it sure does hog a lot of GPU power. Turning it off gave me quiet a boost, all it removed was.... well, the floor does not look wet all the time anymore I guess? :hahano:
 

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