Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight

[U-8D8]

I'm not trying anything! Just giving my (very important) opinion on how the guns felt. I played both games back to back a while ago and it was something I noticed.

Roxor played through the series, guns only a while back. As someone who has never done that, I'd say he probably knows way more about the weapon roster then I do.

Not an argument, because you know I'm right.

I don't much care for the Flechette but it's just dumb to call the heavy repeater a bad weapon. The primary fire is inaccurate at long ranges but it outclasses the E-11 in close range damage. Besides, if you wanted to get into long range fights with it, its easy enough to just use the secondary at range. On that subject, the secondary is fantastic. Enemies in Jedi Outcast have slippery movement patterns, and having a reliable and economical way of either stunning groups of them for a second or even knocking them to the ground is fantastic, even better when you have a fast firing and high damaging primary fire to use when that happens. With fights in the mid to mid-long ranges just use the E-11; it's its role and it's stupid to criticize the repeater for not filling it.

Similarly generalizing throwables is equally stupid. Coupled with force-speed they're arguably faster than a lightsaber when you need to clear a room. All but the trip mines have perfectly adequate uses in an aggressive play style.

1.) The lightsaber is almost always the better option

The entire point of Outcast is that you can do a run and gun playthrough if you want, but if you want to go for the True Jedi Experience(tm) you can do that also. The most effective way to play it is a combination of the two, but focusing on one or the other is still reasonably effective. You can argue why should you ever waste ammo when your glowstick can cut through dudes with one hit, but if you're insisting on having the most economical playstyle possible then you're a boring stick in the mud.

You're the one that's a tryhard, like come on, that post is like straight from 4chan.

Boy are you in for a world of hurt come April 2021 if you think stuff in general gaming and whatnot reads like 4chan posts.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

People have issues with knowing where to go next in either Jedi Knight? Brother, let me tell you about Isle of the Dead. It takes place on a isle, okay, full of zombies. Divided into sections. The zombies respawn each time you change sections. All are mostly the same. In order to win you have to find one wall that looks the same as the rest, and use a machete to cut through the jungle to enter. Later, you have to, without anything more than a generic clue, pick up an enemy's corpse, through a dedicated pick up button. You can't just walk over that crap. So, when I hear someone whining that you sometimes have to figure out which platform in front of you to jump to, or about some swamp that's mostly straight forward, I think they should go back to playing completely linear shooters, where they should stay. Let me not tell you about Bram Stoker's Dracula, because that would make your head explode like in Scanners.

I know! They should have kept the static aim thingy. But even if they had done so I still think most of the weapons were super lame, especially when compared to those of the previous game.

• Stun Baton - Pure crap, used exactly once just to try it.
• Lightsaber - Default 99% of the time, the cheat option in the game of rock-paper-scissors enemies play.
  
• Bryar Blaster - Huge step down from the one from Dark Forces II.
• E-11 Blaster - It's alright, a workhorse before you get the saber.
  
• Tenloss Disruptor - Okay, it's a sniper rifle with a charge up time, not a fan. Super weak if you don't charge it up.
  
• Bowcaster - This one is still alright, but I still preferred the one in Dark Forces II, couldn't quite tell you why
• Heavy Repeater - It kind of goes everywhere and I don't like the secondary fire mode.
• Electro-Magnetic Pulse Gun - Total crap.
• FC-1 - Tries to be the flack cannon from Unreal, fails at it.
• Portable Missile System - These rockets are weak and wimpy.
• And then you have the throwables which I barely used, throws felt off and since you're so often facing off against sith or weak enemies so you'll never have to set up traps or anything.

No.

• Stun Baton - Serves exactly the same function as the fists, a melee weapon you only use before you get the lightsaber.
• Lightsaber - Not as effective as the one in JK1, doesn't deflect as well, but still great in close quarters. Too many enemies far away to be called the default.
  
• Bryar - Primary fire is exactly the same as the original, except now you get a charge blast. Hardly a step down.
• E-11 Blaster - Always felt less accurate than its original counterpart, even on the primary. Only useful for the first couple of levels.
• Tenloss Disruptor - Maybe this just shined more in MP, but a sniper rifle that could shoot through walls is never not useful.
  
• Bowcaster - I don't think I used this that much in this one.
• Heavy Repeater - A rapid-fire weapon with a secondary grenade function? What's not to love?
• Electro-Magnetic Pulse Gun - I don't remember this, so chances are I didn't use it too much.
• FC-1 - Don't remember this one either.
• Portable Missile System - Yeah, this one's underpowered.
• I have never had a problem finding a use for thermal detonators.

• Fists - Kyle doesn't need a stun baton, he can punch hard enough. Not very useful, but pretty cool.
• Bryar Pistol - It's great, stays useful to snipe enemies with even when you got other weapons, super precise.
• Stormtrooper Rifle - Again, it's a workhorse, fires quickly.
• Bowcaster - Precise and carries a lot of omph, love it!
• Imperial Repeater - Again, precise, and super high firing rate, alt fire fires three shots at once. You only have to worry about your ammo.
• Rail Detonator - Ka-pow! Dangerous and highly explosive shots which you can stick to enemies and walls. Night and day compared to the PMS (lol) from Outcast.
• Concussion Rifle - Again, KA-POW! This is my jam! Extremely dangerous, quick and lethal. I want to marry this gun. You can snipe an entire squad of enemies from a distance! Lightsabers are for nerds.
• Lightsaber - It's alright, mostly used against stormtroopers and lesser enemies, as a bonus it can deflect shots and deals with bosses. More of a tool than an ultimate weapon, flashlight in emergencies.
  
• Throwables - thermal detonators are great, more satisfying booms, sequencer charges are easier to get use of.

• Fists - Exactly the same purpose as the Stun Baton.
• Bryar Pistol - Agree
• Stormtrooper Rifle - When I was younger, I used it more, but after the first four levels, its usefulness is greatly reduced, since most situations you'd use it can just be replaced by the saber.
• Bowcaster - No argument, also useful on corners.
• Imperial Repeater - Useless. You might as well be spitting on your enemies. The alt-fire is completely pointless.
• Rail Detonator - Overshadowed by the Concussion Rifle except one point a the end and before you get the Concussion Rifle.
• Concussion Rifle - You complain about the Lightsaber being OP in Outcast, yet don't complain about how 90% of situations can be solved with this gun. Literally every time you aren't in saber range you can and should use this.
• Lightsaber - A close quarters marvel, as it should be.
• Throwables - Don't use mines, greatly enjoy the grenades.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Let me not tell you about Bram Stoker's Dracula, because that would make your head explode like in Scanners.

Do it!

No.

I don't agree some of that but at least you can formulate your opinions properly and I respect that. Some of the things you are just being pedantic about, like I already said the fists and stun baton are pretty much the same but that the fists are cooler. And I can live with you finding the imperial repeater useless when I thought it was awesome since it was a rapid fire gun that you could pretty much snipe enemies from across the map with. I'm not going to argue with you about that, it'd just be stupid. But I do want to hear about bizarre maps that are hard to navigate.

 

[catfood]

I have always wanted to use the guns more but the shooting in Outcast and Academy sucks. Is there any mod for Outcast and Academy that increases the enemies hit boxes?

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Do it!

Spoiler

Its actually not bad. Starts off in a forest that's ass to navigate, but after you figure out which walls are walls and which walls are doors, it gets better. Its like if you took an early blobber and turned it into a FPS. Holes in floors, spinners, teleporters. Better than expected, and better than one's first impression except wall textures are too samey within the level.

I don't agree some of that but at least you can formulate your opinions properly and I respect that. Some of the things you are just being pedantic about, like I already said the fists and stun baton are pretty much the same but that the fists are cooler. And I can live with you finding the imperial repeater useless when I thought it was awesome since it was a rapid fire gun that you could pretty much snipe enemies from across the map with. I'm not going to argue with you about that, it'd just be stupid. But I do want to hear about bizarre maps that are hard to navigate.

Well, it takes a pedantic to know one.
It is, but like I said, you could use the repeater like that, but I remember the stormtroopers don't stand still. I seem to remember it was absolutely a useful weapon against turrets. Mind, I don't disagree that it sounds awesome. All of the weapons in both games sound awesome, at least at first.
As to more bizarre maps, most of what I've recently played are more Wolfenstein 3D or early 3D (think untextured polygons) so its not really fair to complain about them too much. I could complain about Galactic Empire (1990, Coktel Vision) having bizarre level design, but it is quite possibly the first FPS game around, so that's like complaining Ultima 1 doesn't have enough text. Only other thing I can think of is shilling my shitty-ass blog, but that's a lame thing to do.

 

[Citizen]

I have always wanted to use the guns more but the shooting in Outcast and Academy sucks. Is there any mod for Outcast and Academy that increases the enemies hit boxes?

GitGud.exe is pretty good, grandpa

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Its actually not bad. Starts off in a forest that's ass to navigate, but after you figure out which walls are walls and which walls are doors, it gets better. Its like if you took an early blobber and turned it into a FPS. Holes in floors, spinners, teleporters. Better than expected, and better than one's first impression except wall textures are too samey within the level.

That sounds super cool tho, and looking at screenshots it even looks sort of blobber-ish. Is it worth playing? How's the shooting?

It is, but like I said, you could use the repeater like that, but I remember the stormtroopers don't stand still. I seem to remember it was absolutely a useful weapon against turrets. Mind, I don't disagree that it sounds awesome.

If there is one thing I'm good at in these games it is leading shots, which is actually one of the reasons I think I so much prefer DF2, just don't like how laser projectiles and stuff work in Outcast.

I could complain about Galactic Empire (1990, Coktel Vision) having bizarre level design, but it is quite possibly the first FPS game around, so that's like complaining Ultima 1 doesn't have enough text.

Is that even an FPS? I'm not sure it's fair to even call it that, looks more like Battlezone or something.

Only other thing I can think of is shilling my shitty-ass blog, but that's a lame thing to do.

You should have a link to your blog in your signature, it's not lame at all!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wow, we gotta live Zoomer here folks. How does it feel to mingle with dirty old boomers like us. *sips*

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

That sounds super cool tho, and looking at screenshots it even looks sort of blobber-ish. Is it worth playing? How's the shooting?

I would say the second you get past the first forest section it gets a lot better. However, the controls are weird. You move and turn with the keyboard, the nine leftmost keys cover movement. You shoot with the mouse. You don't turn, but you can point the mouse anywhere on screen. I like it, your opinions may very. You only get two weapons, a gun and a knife, but its not something that necessarily works against the game.

If there is one thing I'm good at in these games it is leading shots, which is actually one of the reasons I think I so much prefer DF2, just don't like how laser projectiles and stuff work in Outcast.

Fair enough.

Is that even an FPS? I'm not sure it's fair to even call it that, looks more like Battlezone or something.

It depends on your definition. to a certain extent. When I think of an FPS, I more or less think of something where the player is not a vehicle, has complete freedom of movement, and can move and shoot to their heart's content. It fits all those requirements. Its difficult to explain exactly what it is without going on and on about it.

You should have a link to your blog in your signature, it's not lame at all!

Well, I guess I'll trust your superior wisdom for now.

 

[DeepOcean]

Wow, we gotta live Zoomer here folks. How does it feel to mingle with dirty old boomers like us. *sips*

It could be worse, his first shooter could be Fortnite, I have pity for children these days.

 

[Maggot]

The guns in Jedi Knight 2 really do feel way worse than Dark Forces 2 and thermal detonators don't even have first person animations for when you throw them. I haven't gotten very far into it and it seems like the appeal is the lightsaber combat which was pretty barebones in Dark Forces 2.

 

[wahrk]

I played DF2 for the first time recently and really enjoyed it. Even now it holds up as probably the high point of the whole series. Great levels, fun shooting, entertaining story (and I have a huge soft spot for the live action cutscenes). It’s creative and it still has some early EU wackiness too it, like the dark jedi that’s a floating torso, or the little rodent dark jedi that rides on the shoulder of the bigger guy.

The lightsaber in DF2 also feels more situational, there’s plenty of sections where it’s better to just blast your way through. In contrast, the shooting in Outcast is pretty terrible, and you have to suffer through it for the first four levels until you get the lightsaber, at which point there’s almost no reason to use any other weapon except for very specific situations.

After finishing DF2 I did try Mysteries of the Sith, but it was a huge letdown. The level design is just horrific in some places. Plus the end forces you to use the lightsaber exclusively, which is frustrating.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

DF2 is legendary, but let's not shit over Outcast or Academy please. These are all excellent games, so let us celebrate in their name and shit over EA and Disney instead.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I should also humbly add that while the game can be run with mods on modern machines, I'd really not mind for DF2 getting the KEX engine treatment. From all the oldies out there, this one deserves it the most.

 

[wahrk]

DF2 is legendary, but let's not shit over Outcast or Academy please. These are all excellent games, so let us celebrate in their name and shit over EA and Disney instead.

Agreed, I do love Outcast and Academy despite their flaws. The lightsaber combat alone is worth it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Aside from the lightsaber, Outcast and Academy are utterly mediocre and unmemorable.

nope

what now faget

 

[Citizen]

Aside from the lightsaber, Outcast and Academy are utterly mediocre and unmemorable.

Cool 90-s style leveldesign where you need to search every corner of the map to find a solution to a big maze/puzzle with zero handholding alone makes them worth playing, especially Outcast. Fuck Nar-Shadda missions tho

And I actually hate lightsaber combat, still love the games for other stuff

 

[Carrion]

Cool 90-s style leveldesign where you need to search every corner of the map to find a solution to a big maze/puzzle with zero handholding alone makes them worth playing, especially Outcast. Fuck Nar-Shadda missions tho

Outcast had pretty straightforward level design, though. Very "early 2000's", but it works, and the typically impractical Star Wars architecture makes the levels seem more complex than they actually are.

I like Nar Shaddaa, by the way. There's something about sadistic sniper town missions that has always appealed to me.

 

[Average Manatee]

The problem with JK2/3 re: gun balance is that for 2/3rds of the game the best way to deal with all non-lightsaber enemies is to just force pull their gun away. Or, if you want to be comedic, jump and force pull them 50 feet into the air to scream as they die. There's no reason to use guns when putting away your lightsaber removes your very overpowered almost-perfect deflection ability.

 

[wahrk]

Jedi Outcast might as well just be one long metal corridor. Nothing about it is distinct in any way, and Academy was just the same thing but even less impressive.

?? Even if that was true of Outcast, I don't see how you could claim that about Academy...

Spoiler

 

[Darth Roxor]

dumbo contrarianism doesnt give you kool kredits, resident zoomer, just fyi

kejim post - yeah i guess those are grey metal corridors
artus mine - some grey corridors, a lot of mining tunnels, so nop
jedi academy and temple ruins - nop
nar shaddaa skyline - laughs in rodian
cloud city - most certainly nop
sikrit asteroid base - true, though it actually has a bunch of fairly open spaces for a fucking space base
doomgiver - true, though it actually has a bunch of fairly open spaces for a fucking spaceship
yavin 4 swamp - lol
jedi academy and temple ruins redux - nop

nothing but grey metal corridors as far as the eye can see, yea verily

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nar Shaddaa = an entire fucking city of grey metal corridors

and there i was thinking nar shaddaa was the level of obnoxious snipers, turns out they're sniping you from the other sides of grey metal corridors

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

The real corridor were the lasers we were shot by along the way.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Just played through Palace Escape and wept a little bit at how far shooters have declined in 25 years. What a fucking amazing level.

 

[Sad He-Man]

Just played through Palace Escape and wept a little bit at how far shooters have declined in 25 years. What a fucking amazing level.

Funny, yesterday I played through second and third level and had the same realization.