The Jester
Cipher
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2020
- Messages
- 1,470
He should watch some gameplay from the two games and decide for himself whether it looks fun to play or not.
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Let's settle this once and for all: Fallout 2 or Underrail?
- Thread starter Ol' Willy
- Start date
Poseidon00
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2018
- Messages
- 2,055
Fallout 2 is a classic and i've never had any interest in figuring out what an "Underrail" is.
Lilura
RPG Codex Dragon Lady
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2013
- Messages
- 5,274
Overhauls are overrated. 1.13 is ok and Temple+ is great, but anyone who prefers modded Fallout or Fallout 2 to the originals is an idiot, pure and simple.
That is one reason why Baldur's Gate is the greatest D&D-based RPG of all-time, and the 4th greatest RPG of all-time.
Poncefinder: Cuckmaker is trash.
Darkzone
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2013
- Messages
- 2,323
On this part we agree both, but there is always a but. And this but follows after your second statement.
He dislikes RTwP or at least prefers much more TB before / over RTwP. And due to the feature bloat (which i like despite its Kingdom build aspect is under used / utilised ) he can directly compare this both (TV and RTwP) encounter systems concerning its practicality and efficiency, directly in one game.
Sadly PK is not so strong in storytelling and roleplaying department, and in the resolution of each individual chapter. And this is the reason why i have written "PK to be one of the best games in the last 10 years" instead of "PK to be one of the best RPGs in the last 10 years".
We shall see what happens in the second game, where we you can build your own army.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 444
Underrail is better. Fallout 2 is good for one playthrough, and then feels stale if you even look at it again. I can barely remember anything from the game, other than the god awful pop culture references. On the other hand Underrail has hundreds of hours of content and is still being updated.
jackofshadows
Magister
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2019
- Messages
- 4,535
Underrail is better.
If we put aside all the good stuff what was introduced with F1 (excellent design etc) than we'll have less coherent game in general, worse mechanics and far inferior combat. Writing wise F2 is very uneven to say the least if we wanna talk seriously.
F2 has companions but honestly, fuck them.
If we put aside all the good stuff what was introduced with F1 (excellent design etc) than we'll have less coherent game in general, worse mechanics and far inferior combat. Writing wise F2 is very uneven to say the least if we wanna talk seriously.
F2 has companions but honestly, fuck them.
Devastator
Learned
Bullshit. Even if you play with the same premade character, the second playthrough will be very different from the first. Assuming you like to explore and try different approaches.
Ol' Willy
Arcane
BG:
- RTwP
- Generic Fantasy
- Bioware game
PFKM:
- RTwP (I heard that TB mode there is afterthought)
- Generic Fantasy
- Inspired by Bioware games
Three checks on my stoplist, I'll pass
xuerebx
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,003
Man you need to give Underrail another chance!
I don't agree with the NPCs not being interesting though e.g. Ezra is peculiar and mysterious, and is more than meets the eye. For what it it's worth, Underrail's story - when you start piecing the puzzles together* - is very interesting and engaging. I'd say it picks up when the Facers show up
*admittedly I pieced the puzzles after reading other experiences' online. I missed the references in the computer terminals which start tying the historical events to the present-day characters.
Darth Canoli
Arcane
Sure, i'll give you Ezra, he's mysterious enough but is there any more to this or is it just references?
I'm not going to replay it until it's party based though.
xuerebx
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,003
Well, terminal logs and other characters will refer to certain scientists which when piecing the puzzle you realise they're referring to Ezra (by way of one example). It's not explicit which is why it's interesting and cool in that eureka type moment when you realise it. Six is another very interesting character. I really enjoyed the setting however and had tons of fun with this game, so I'm biased towards recommending it to anyone who enjoys TB RPGs.
Also, is there any word on it becoming party-based in the future though? Never heard of this.
Ol' Willy
Arcane
Underrail has its share of interesting characters. Ezra, Dude, Todd, Pirate Honcho, Oculus guys... And one and only, Al Fabet!
This poll is giving me the
toro
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 14,084
Underrail will never be party-based because the combat system is designed for single player. Maybe Underrail 2.
Nevertheless you cannot correctly judge the game until you finished it once because:
- The game opens up after Depot A and there are some excellent locations for combat and lore,
- Expedition and Deep Caverns must be experienced at least once despite all the criticism.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
deep cavern has some of the best parts of the lore
Goldschmidt
Learned
That I would ever see the day that the codex hivemind breaks apart. (Grabs popcorn)
Unlike the female hivemind that all likes to be fucked by the same chad, the codex doesn't know which rpg commits to the most inner truth; the embodiment of our rpgsaver: p-bus, planet-dingdong-scorcher.
Unlike the female hivemind that all likes to be fucked by the same chad, the codex doesn't know which rpg commits to the most inner truth; the embodiment of our rpgsaver: p-bus, planet-dingdong-scorcher.
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Darth Canoli
Arcane
They explicitly said they'd never make it party-based.
And yes, you'd have to add a lot of monsters and (re?)craft battle encounters but you just need one guy who knows his business.
By the way the encounter design is terrible in that first part of the game, in fact, there isn't any, monsters are just roaming about most of the time.
Some encounter design and a small party (like +1/2 mercs or some temporary companions here and there) would do but without it, combat is just not interesting, it's just another rogue-like.
I'd rather compare it to Fallout 1, which casts such a long shadow over both Fallout 2 and Underrail.
Overall I prefer Underrail, Unlike Fallout, Underrail often declines into a pretty horrible slog, but it also has more content. Just compare the initial Vault/Station, in Fallout you might not even enter it at the start, in Underrail you have to actually interract with all nine levels of the station right in the early game. A bit of a nuisance but also an example of yuge content.
Anyhow for some comparisons, in which I explain why I think Underrail's better overall, but Fallout is better for Aesthetic and Plot.
1) Combat
Easy win for Underrail, probably doesn't need discussion. There's simply far more variation in what you can do, with things like gas grenades, bear traps, lighting mechanics, varied disables, and crazy psi effects like Stasis or Force Wall or mass Enrage.
2) Non-Combat mechanics
A tie. Both games have the speech/lockpicking/computers/stealth type skills implemented thoroughly.
Actually Underrail has the extensive crafting system which I think is pretty cool, with the customisation options for weapons, and distilling poison from creatures that use that poison and then putting it on traps, caltrops or weapons.
On the other hand it's a bit detrimental to looting gear when craftable stuff is superior in most categories. In particular, craftable shields are literally several times stronger than any that can be looted which is just odd.
3) Character Building
Pretty similar between the two games but Underrail ended up being a bit more intricate.
4) Exploration
Underrail has more locations, and they're meshed together intelligently. You see the whole of the lower caves in a new light when you travel through via jetski on the rivers. AND it has verticality, with things like the Core City layout, the tunnels from the expedition camp to the Pirate Base, SRO base being above junkyard, and so much else.
Clear win over Fallout which has good locations distributed logically, but just can't compete with that.
5) Aesthetic
Absolutely crushing victory for Fallout, no questions asked. Including icons, character models, music, UI, animations. Though there are parts of Underrail which are excellent such as Tchort Institute visuals and Gray Army soundtrack, most of the game is, I hate to admit, rather ugly.
6.) Setting
Underrail's overall setting is more unusual and presented more mysteriously than Fallout's. It has LOADS of hidden lore, which is moreover integrated in the plot and the characters you meet.
In terms of towns and trade routes it's realistic and intelligent, but so is Fallout.
7.) Plot
Clear win for Fallout whose main plot is very good. Underrail's main plot succeeds as the framework telling you to go places but is basically illogical and unconvincing if you were to think about it too much, which I chose not to.
In Fallout it makes sense that your character would be loyal to the Vault he grew up in, and would want to save the wasteland from a mutant invasion which would destroy it and everyone else.
In Underrail it doesn't make sense that your character would go into countless dangerous situations just because Tanner might pay you some money or because you want to figure it out.
Towards the end of the game you even end up with some 'supernatural' figure telling you you have to do such and such (another extremely dangerous escapade) otherwise you can't leave the region you wound up in. It felt like insecure writing with the devs telling the player what they had to do, like with PoE2 killing the player character if he doesn't go along with the plot - very insecure writing. Even though I think Underrail's writing is mostly excellent, the plot wasn't.
8.) Characters
Fallout probably has the best characters, but looking at the characterisation of lesser figures, I think Underrail actually wins on this one. There are a lot of 'moderately characterised' figures like Ezra, Dude, Gorsky, Yngwar, Ferryman, Todd, Professor Oldfield, Briggs, Ladelman and Marcus, Seeger scattered throughout the game. Lots of little things, like Mordre being unwilling to accept a gift of hopper meat and demanding that he pay you for it with a stimpack, one of the ferrymen having a pirate persona, one of the Tchortist guards being mortified if you ask for a key from him but have already pickpocketed it. Also there's a lot of dialogue options where you can be autistically literal and make the NPCs facepalm.
Maybe I just don't remember enough Fallout writing but i think most of it's concentrated on a handful of characters.
People underrate how much Underrail owes to Fallout, it was clearly very strongly inspired in most aspects including basically copying the concept of the final boss for example. In that sense praising Underrail is still just praising Fallout anyway.
Overall I prefer Underrail, Unlike Fallout, Underrail often declines into a pretty horrible slog, but it also has more content. Just compare the initial Vault/Station, in Fallout you might not even enter it at the start, in Underrail you have to actually interract with all nine levels of the station right in the early game. A bit of a nuisance but also an example of yuge content.
Anyhow for some comparisons, in which I explain why I think Underrail's better overall, but Fallout is better for Aesthetic and Plot.
1) Combat
Easy win for Underrail, probably doesn't need discussion. There's simply far more variation in what you can do, with things like gas grenades, bear traps, lighting mechanics, varied disables, and crazy psi effects like Stasis or Force Wall or mass Enrage.
2) Non-Combat mechanics
A tie. Both games have the speech/lockpicking/computers/stealth type skills implemented thoroughly.
Actually Underrail has the extensive crafting system which I think is pretty cool, with the customisation options for weapons, and distilling poison from creatures that use that poison and then putting it on traps, caltrops or weapons.
On the other hand it's a bit detrimental to looting gear when craftable stuff is superior in most categories. In particular, craftable shields are literally several times stronger than any that can be looted which is just odd.
3) Character Building
Pretty similar between the two games but Underrail ended up being a bit more intricate.
4) Exploration
Underrail has more locations, and they're meshed together intelligently. You see the whole of the lower caves in a new light when you travel through via jetski on the rivers. AND it has verticality, with things like the Core City layout, the tunnels from the expedition camp to the Pirate Base, SRO base being above junkyard, and so much else.
Clear win over Fallout which has good locations distributed logically, but just can't compete with that.
5) Aesthetic
Absolutely crushing victory for Fallout, no questions asked. Including icons, character models, music, UI, animations. Though there are parts of Underrail which are excellent such as Tchort Institute visuals and Gray Army soundtrack, most of the game is, I hate to admit, rather ugly.
6.) Setting
Underrail's overall setting is more unusual and presented more mysteriously than Fallout's. It has LOADS of hidden lore, which is moreover integrated in the plot and the characters you meet.
In terms of towns and trade routes it's realistic and intelligent, but so is Fallout.
7.) Plot
Clear win for Fallout whose main plot is very good. Underrail's main plot succeeds as the framework telling you to go places but is basically illogical and unconvincing if you were to think about it too much, which I chose not to.
In Fallout it makes sense that your character would be loyal to the Vault he grew up in, and would want to save the wasteland from a mutant invasion which would destroy it and everyone else.
In Underrail it doesn't make sense that your character would go into countless dangerous situations just because Tanner might pay you some money or because you want to figure it out.
Towards the end of the game you even end up with some 'supernatural' figure telling you you have to do such and such (another extremely dangerous escapade) otherwise you can't leave the region you wound up in. It felt like insecure writing with the devs telling the player what they had to do, like with PoE2 killing the player character if he doesn't go along with the plot - very insecure writing. Even though I think Underrail's writing is mostly excellent, the plot wasn't.
8.) Characters
Fallout probably has the best characters, but looking at the characterisation of lesser figures, I think Underrail actually wins on this one. There are a lot of 'moderately characterised' figures like Ezra, Dude, Gorsky, Yngwar, Ferryman, Todd, Professor Oldfield, Briggs, Ladelman and Marcus, Seeger scattered throughout the game. Lots of little things, like Mordre being unwilling to accept a gift of hopper meat and demanding that he pay you for it with a stimpack, one of the ferrymen having a pirate persona, one of the Tchortist guards being mortified if you ask for a key from him but have already pickpocketed it. Also there's a lot of dialogue options where you can be autistically literal and make the NPCs facepalm.
Maybe I just don't remember enough Fallout writing but i think most of it's concentrated on a handful of characters.
People underrate how much Underrail owes to Fallout, it was clearly very strongly inspired in most aspects including basically copying the concept of the final boss for example. In that sense praising Underrail is still just praising Fallout anyway.
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fantadomat
Arcane
Underrail is a lot better game all around,a lot more fun with better combat. I doubt that even half of the people that voted fallou2 had played it,a lot of posers this days.
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