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Why'd party-based Diablo clones never become a thing?

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
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Won't run on my too old computer.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Diablo 2 is one of the greatest games ever made.

Check out how I modded it: Max Spawns Extreme: 7,000 kills per 15 minute Pit Run.

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Hobo Elf

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Dungeon Siege wasn’t really all that fun. I’m guessing that’s why. Also, I agree with a lot of what Gregz said.

EDIT: The fact that DS came out during a time when the RTS genre was still popular and it still didn’t catch on should be an indicator of what people thought of it as a game.

DS was popular at time as I remember, million plus seller. Fuck knows why.
But did it really sell 1 million copies? I remember the game being bundled with a bunch of stuff. GPUs, Windows and even other Microsoft office software. Seems to me that they simply rolled those bundle purchases with the "copies sold" in order to inflate how well the game did. The game was utter shit, so it's a hard pill for me to swallow that it sold a million copies and still faded into almost complete obscurity.
 

Tweed

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Pathfinder: Wrath
But did it really sell 1 million copies? I remember the game being bundled with a bunch of stuff. GPUs, Windows and even other Microsoft office software. Seems to me that they simply rolled those bundle purchases with the "copies sold" in order to inflate how well the game did. The game was utter shit, so it's a hard pill for me to swallow that it sold a million copies and still faded into almost complete obscurity.

You sure you aren't thinking of Dungeon Lords? I remember seeing that packed into everything. Dungeon Siege was on shelves for a long time though, I kept seeing copies of it at Wal-Mart for ages.
 

Hobo Elf

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But did it really sell 1 million copies? I remember the game being bundled with a bunch of stuff. GPUs, Windows and even other Microsoft office software. Seems to me that they simply rolled those bundle purchases with the "copies sold" in order to inflate how well the game did. The game was utter shit, so it's a hard pill for me to swallow that it sold a million copies and still faded into almost complete obscurity.

You sure you aren't thinking of Dungeon Lords? I remember seeing that packed into everything. Dungeon Siege was on shelves for a long time though, I kept seeing copies of it at Wal-Mart for ages.
Why would Dungeon Lords be bundled with Microsoft software?
 

Ebonsword

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Why didn't this type of Diablo clone ever catch on? I don't even know if there are other examples besides DS, at least not ones that rose to any kind of prominence.

They're not fantasy-themed, but aren't the Marvel Ultimate Alliance games basically party-based Diablo?

 

baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
There's a lot of old Warcraft 3 custom campaigns that were mostly this, and they were a lot of fun because of it. It's a shame that type of gameplay didn't become a craze like DotA did.
I loved doing dungeon crawl maps for WC3 the combat was way better than something like NWN and if the map supported things like summons you could actually control them unlike Diablo 2.

The campaigns for Dawn of War 2 could be played like this, especially in the last expansion where the small units are replaced by single heroes.
 

anvi

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I don't think it ever became a big thing because I don't think it makes commercial sense. I think the type of person who wants full and deep control of a full party with a full selection of spells and gear, is going to be far more interested in a real RPG with full minute control over everything. The type of person who wants semi-automated real time combat, doesn't want too many spells, gear, inventory management, or having a whole party.

There may be outliers but still, I think most people either want an action hack n slash, or a full blown RPG nerdfest. Dungeon Siege was really strange because it attempted to offer both, which I think mostly disappoints both sides of the coin. That's why there are now 1000 Diablo clones, Titan Quest, Sacred series, Vlad something, Grim something, Path of Exile, etc. One character running around pressing a couple of buttons and blowing up everything and then vacuuming all the loot to feel like you accomplished something. Then for the other audience you have TOEE, Drakensang, Pillers, Tranny, Torment, Blackguards, etc.

Dragon Age Origins was a good call because that is one of the best games to go down the middle. You can micro manage every character if you want to, each one has their own inventory, their own stats and character building, and a fair set of spells/abilities to use. Yet if you prefer you can setup their AI to play mostly by themselves and then you get to play it sort of like a single character action game. I think the main reason that series changed so much with the sequels is because of what I said. If you chase the mighty $$$ you need a simpler action game which is what the sequels are. And if you want a real RPG, you need to accept a much smaller audience and it is better to leave that to indie devs.
 
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Barbalos

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I actually think a party based RTS where you explore dungeons could be fun.
There's a lot of old Warcraft 3 custom campaigns that were mostly this, and they were a lot of fun because of it. It's a shame that type of gameplay didn't become a craze like DotA did.

There were also a few levels in the Starcraft I and II campaigns that were like that. Exploring in a facility or inside a ship with a small number of units, sometimes special units with special abilities like Raynor or the Dark Templar Zeratul. I always thought those levels were a bit of an interesting diversion from the main RTS levels.

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(Level is Piercing the Shroud from Wings of Liberty)
 

Theldaran

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How could you possibly manage a party in real time?

I remember the Dungeon Siege games, but I was very unimpressed by the gameplay.

The closest thing to what you're asking for might be DA:O, where you can script the actions of your party members, but even that is still RTWP.

Why not Tales of, at that point.
 

Darth Canoli

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Except it did become a thing, diablo killed the cRPG for so long, birthing all that RTwP trash that survived for 20 years, only now, because of its recent demise, we can see the end of the tunnel.
 

Saduj

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Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,547
Krater was a party based ARPG. Didn’t do well due to repetitive procedurally generated content, among other issues. I played it. Basically just monitoring cool downs/ability spam and making sure the tank is up front and maintaining aggro. They also tried to make abilities customizable with various boosters but IMO, it failed because the best boosters to use were +damage or +healing so you just end up installing the same five boosters in every ability depending on if it is an attack or healing ability.

Having to control three characters meant less overall movement than if there was one character. Just plant the tank up front and have have the other two guys shoot from behind. It was possible to have a party with two melee chars but I didn’t see the point.
 

Tavernking

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I went to watch the Dungeon Siege 2 intro and the first thing I see is the bare ass of a woman flying into battle. This would never happen these days. It's just amazing to see.

Screen-Shot-2020-11-16-at-9-43-00-pm.png
 

sser

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Dungeon Siege games were mocked for being glorified screensavers in their own time. I think people forget that they were very good looking games visually and sold a lot of copies off that alone, just like a lot of people forget the series had a sci-fi sequel I never see a soul ever talk about.

The closest that come to mind in spirit are the above mentioned Xmen and Marvel Alliance games. I'm pretty certain there was a 3DS game that basically had exactly what you're referring to but the name escape me.

I think if you bent the D&D-style universes a bit and welcomed with open arms a bit of inanity and pizazz, in the form of exaggerated spells and action moves, then I think a game like this could work. There are roguelikes/mystery dungeon games that have already welcomed the party-centric concept.

There's two big problems though: people like to be the hero or in control; and multiplayer is a huge facet of that genre. Showing off your action-RPG schlong to fellow nerds has a huge appeal in and of itself. I remember one month I went hard into D3 and maxed out a Monk. I'd then join public games with my broken ass OP character and run ahead exploding everything in sight, grinning, and saying things like "Yeah you see that, you little bitches? You just sit and watch daddy do his thing" and other confidence boosters and personality maskers. It's harder to do that if your powerlevel is spread across multiple characters.
 

Invictus

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
After a very stressful few days I wanted to play something to relax while chilling with my cat on one arm and decided to fire up Dungeon Siege and to my surprise I didn’t hate it as I remembered from the early 2000 where I felt it was a slog... the gameplay is very basic; the party mechanics are ok but somehow I found it very relaxing (with superb Jeremy Soule soundtrack too!) the graphics are kind of vintage nowadays and I am rather enjoying it as a turn off brain and relax kind of game and I kind of look forward to play it on small samples for this kind of thing
 

Keyboard Vomit

Guest
After a very stressful few days I wanted to play something to relax while chilling with my cat on one arm and decided to fire up Dungeon Siege and to my surprise I didn’t hate it as I remembered from the early 2000 where I felt it was a slog... the gameplay is very basic; the party mechanics are ok but somehow I found it very relaxing (with superb Jeremy Soule soundtrack too!) the graphics are kind of vintage nowadays and I am rather enjoying it as a turn off brain and relax kind of game and I kind of look forward to play it on small samples for this kind of thing
Posters often meme that it is an interactive screensaver, and it is, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 

vibehunter

Learned
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Feb 1, 2021
Messages
264
Shadows Awakening is pretty much a party based Diablo style game (albeit you can only control one hero at a time so is it even a party?).
 

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