Why'd party-based Diablo clones never become a thing?

[KeighnMcDeath]

Prince of Qin eh?

GOG needs this. Look at that peasant dance. Burn baby burn. Good shit.

 

[Desiderius]

How could you possibly manage a party in real time?

You couldn't completely, that's why the AI has to be at least somewhat competent. What you could do in DS2 is assign spells to characters and some of them would be autocast to buff or heal the party, summon monsters, or curse your enemies. All characters also had a unique skill you could fire off if it was ready to affect the battlefield in a way, either by providing additional firepower or introducing mechanics like gravity wells.

It wasn't the best system ever and could become chaotic at times, but it did work.

For some reason this reminds me of the old arcade game Gauntlet. It features up to 4 players, each player had a 'power' they could use which mostly just cleared the screen without damaging the other players. Coordination was almost non-existent. If you take away coordination and strategy there isn't much reason to have a party. That said, I think it would be cool to have a deep custom scripting system to try this. Diablo II had hirelings of different types which made for some interesting build synergies, but here again, friendly fire was disabled. I'm not totally opposed to the idea, but it's impossible for the player to have agency over more than one actor in real time.

Systems like these also make friendly fire AOE spells almost impossible to include, I've never seen AI that knew how to herd your opponent into an area so you can bomb AOEs.

Main unique feature of Gauntlet IIRC was no matter how good you were you were still pumping quarters in on the regular.

 

[Desiderius]

Dungeon Siege games were mocked for being glorified screensavers in their own time. I think people forget that they were very good looking games visually and sold a lot of copies off that alone, just like a lot of people forget the series had a sci-fi sequel I never see a soul ever talk about.

The closest that come to mind in spirit are the above mentioned Xmen and Marvel Alliance games. I'm pretty certain there was a 3DS game that basically had exactly what you're referring to but the name escape me.

I think if you bent the D&D-style universes a bit and welcomed with open arms a bit of inanity and pizazz, in the form of exaggerated spells and action moves, then I think a game like this could work. There are roguelikes/mystery dungeon games that have already welcomed the party-centric concept.

There's two big problems though: people like to be the hero or in control; and multiplayer is a huge facet of that genre. Showing off your action-RPG schlong to fellow nerds has a huge appeal in and of itself. I remember one month I went hard into D3 and maxed out a Monk. I'd then join public games with my broken ass OP character and run ahead exploding everything in sight, grinning, and saying things like "Yeah you see that, you little bitches? You just sit and watch daddy do his thing" and other confidence boosters and personality maskers. It's harder to do that if your powerlevel is spread across multiple characters.

Wasn’t everyone maxed on D3 because Auction House?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Why all the Dungeon Siege hate? You can play as iconic stars..

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

How could you possibly manage a party in real time?

You couldn't completely, that's why the AI has to be at least somewhat competent. What you could do in DS2 is assign spells to characters and some of them would be autocast to buff or heal the party, summon monsters, or curse your enemies. All characters also had a unique skill you could fire off if it was ready to affect the battlefield in a way, either by providing additional firepower or introducing mechanics like gravity wells.

It wasn't the best system ever and could become chaotic at times, but it did work.

For some reason this reminds me of the old arcade game Gauntlet. It features up to 4 players, each player had a 'power' they could use which mostly just cleared the screen without damaging the other players. Coordination was almost non-existent. If you take away coordination and strategy there isn't much reason to have a party. That said, I think it would be cool to have a deep custom scripting system to try this. Diablo II had hirelings of different types which made for some interesting build synergies, but here again, friendly fire was disabled. I'm not totally opposed to the idea, but it's impossible for the player to have agency over more than one actor in real time.

Systems like these also make friendly fire AOE spells almost impossible to include, I've never seen AI that knew how to herd your opponent into an area so you can bomb AOEs.

Main unique feature of Gauntlet IIRC was no matter how good you were you were still pumping quarters in on the regular.

Maybe you weren't good enough. To be fair, I was clearing with ease either on consoles or home computer as some fucktard busted up the Gauntlet machines in the arcade. Fucking coke bottle right through the screens. Asshole!

 

[Desiderius]

Main unique feature of Gauntlet IIRC was no matter how good you were you were still pumping quarters in on the regular.

Maybe you weren't good enough. To be fair, I was clearing with ease either on consoles or home computer as some fucktard busted up the Gauntlet machines in the arcade. Fucking coke bottle right through the screens. Asshole!

Most advanced console at that time was Colecovision so unlikely. Could play Rolling Thunder and Bump and Jump indefinitely though Gauntlet was my fave but could never really afford it. You were basically buying the food that was needed to survive.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Man, he needed to hit those secret rooms. I think he got bored.

 

[Desiderius]

That’s some serious bullet hell there. I got pretty far on original Raiden, Xevious, and r-type but bullet hells always kind of made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Well, I'm sure the death of PC gaming in the early 2000s had a little something to do with them never becoming a thing.

Although it is weird nobody really seemed to pick up that Dungeon Siege mantle. I could swear that first one sold really well, pretty sure it was one of the top selling PC games of the time, so it's a bit odd nobody seemed to really pick up where they left off. Even Dungeon Siege 3 didn't for some bizarre reason.

The only things I can really think of that seem in line with what the OP is specifically asking for have already been named. Little surprised to see X-Men Legends and Marvel Ultimate Alliance get name dropped, but not Freedom Force.

 

[flushfire]

IMO the 2nd game was a move in the right direction then for some reason Obsidian made an entirely different game which as far as I know nobody asked for. Probably killed any interest left for the series at that point.

 

[Outmind]

IMO the 2nd game was a move in the right direction then for some reason Obsidian made an entirely different game which as far as I know nobody asked for. Probably killed any interest left for the series at that point.

What game? What sequel?

There is no Dungeon Siege 3...

The dungeon Siege franchise died with 2, never to be heard from or seen again. There was some regressive bit of dog vomit they tacked the label onto, but the real DS3 was never made.

 

[baud]

Well, I'm sure the death of PC gaming in the early 2000s had a little something to do with them never becoming a thing.

Although it is weird nobody really seemed to pick up that Dungeon Siege mantle. I could swear that first one sold really well, pretty sure it was one of the top selling PC games of the time, so it's a bit odd nobody seemed to really pick up where they left off. Even Dungeon Siege 3 didn't for some bizarre reason.

The only things I can really think of that seem in line with what the OP is specifically asking for have already been named. Little surprised to see X-Men Legends and Marvel Ultimate Alliance get name dropped, but not Freedom Force.

I wouldn't call Freedom Force a diablo clone. Perhaps you had a different experience, but when I played, I rarely played real-time, but rather pausing giving order to all team members, who don't have any IA of their own

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Well, I'm sure the death of PC gaming in the early 2000s had a little something to do with them never becoming a thing.

Although it is weird nobody really seemed to pick up that Dungeon Siege mantle. I could swear that first one sold really well, pretty sure it was one of the top selling PC games of the time, so it's a bit odd nobody seemed to really pick up where they left off. Even Dungeon Siege 3 didn't for some bizarre reason.

The only things I can really think of that seem in line with what the OP is specifically asking for have already been named. Little surprised to see X-Men Legends and Marvel Ultimate Alliance get name dropped, but not Freedom Force.

I wouldn't call Freedom Force a diablo clone. Perhaps you had a different experience, but when I played, I rarely played real-time, but rather pausing giving order to all team members, who don't have any IA of their own

I wouldn't call it a Diablo clone either, but it's more along the lines of what the OP was talking about than those Marvel games.

 

[DraQ]

@OP

Because some genre/mechanics combinations are objectively terrible.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

But that doesn't explain how there hasn't been more of what the OP is talking about.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The gameplay for Dungeon Siege 1 & 2 is a bit strange. They have more in common with tower defense game than an RPG.

Each character has a shallow primary ability mostly auto-attacks against waves of enemies. You have the ability to direct them, but it's not much different than arranging your tower. The abilities and characters had so little depth and the spells were so simplistic that there wasn't much to do other than concentrate fire or rotate out tank/heal. Most were just entirely generic and just a higher number variant of the previous spell. I think the expansion improved and introduced more involved spells/abilities, but I never played it. Dungeon Siege 2 had a tighter focus with the smaller party, more robust itemization, and a much improved spell/skill list. While being a superior game in every way, it was fundamentally the same quasi-tower defense experience. I did have fun with DS2. I think I completed it twice. Idleness of youth.

Regardless, the mechanics for party-based diablo clones are caught at the nexus of too many different genres and ends up being the least of each of them, rather than the sum.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Aren't Icewind Dale 1/2 and Temple of Elemental Evil basically Diablo clones with a party?

 

[Galdred]

I liked Darkstone. 2 characters is a party too!

Beyond Divinity also had a party of 2, but I think it had a much colder reception than its ancestor, Divine Divinity, despite having a less retarded title.

Spellforce was also a good exemple indeed. The non army parts did play relatively well, but the characters had a limited set of abilities to make it manageable.

 

[laclongquan]

Prince of Qin was too old and made by Chinese so access to their codes is impossible. NO mod at all~