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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

Goldschmidt

Learned
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
461
Location
Swen Vincke's bedroom (Ghent)
If you don't believe me, go look up the AI in F.E.A.R.(the guy who wrote it also wrote some papers on it, easy to find) -- it was basic as shit, but because it gave the appearance of being smart people actually believed it was really advanced.


Video games are, at their most basic level, an illusion.

To be fair that is not entirely true. F.E.A.R. used goal action orientated planning for their enemy AI and was most definitely a spin to how AI was programmed at the time. I wouldn't call it basic but more of a simpler more elegant solution to a problem that is much better than an over-engineered (=badly engineered) one that shoots istelf in the face. Also if it was that easy, then why didn't more companies adopt it?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
If you don't believe me, go look up the AI in F.E.A.R.(the guy who wrote it also wrote some papers on it, easy to find) -- it was basic as shit, but because it gave the appearance of being smart people actually believed it was really advanced.


Video games are, at their most basic level, an illusion.

To be fair that is not entirely true. F.E.A.R. used goal action orientated planning for their enemy AI and was most definitely a spin to how AI was programmed at the time. I wouldn't call it basic but more of a simpler more elegant solution to a problem that is much better than an over-engineered (=badly engineered) one that shoots istelf in the face. Also if it was that easy, then why didn't more companies adopt it?
The main reason people thought it was advanced had nothing to do with that, go read his papers.
The most cited reason?
They verbally communicated with each other which gave the illusion of them actually working together as a team. Something that had absolutely nothing to actually do with the AI itself at all.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
Look. I love the games where there is no scaling like Gothic or Divine Divinity for example. I love clearing the map and exploration despite some limitations.
It's just if there is a choice between inevitable bumping into low leveled monsters when you're op already or scaled ones i would prefer scaling.
It's like famous red herring "Democracy is the worst form of Government…”
Your preferences are all fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that the entire point of having an open world is for the player to be able to explore, break the sequence, meet something that kicks his butt, farm on easier stuff to kick its butt in return, escape from a gigachad enemy to get a powerful item and all that jazz. You can have acceptable as well as absolutely disgusting implementations of scaling, but scaling pretty much always works directly against all those ideas.

There are lots of ways to mitigate getting op spoiling the game. Make combat meaty and cool so massacring weak enemies feels satisfying, make combat deadly so that even weak enemies have a way to be dangerous or a drain on your resources and so on. Basically, design your game instead of going for lazy cop outs like "everything scales hurrrr".
 

Goldschmidt

Learned
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
461
Location
Swen Vincke's bedroom (Ghent)
If you don't believe me, go look up the AI in F.E.A.R.(the guy who wrote it also wrote some papers on it, easy to find) -- it was basic as shit, but because it gave the appearance of being smart people actually believed it was really advanced.


Video games are, at their most basic level, an illusion.

To be fair that is not entirely true. F.E.A.R. used goal action orientated planning for their enemy AI and was most definitely a spin to how AI was programmed at the time. I wouldn't call it basic but more of a simpler more elegant solution to a problem that is much better than an over-engineered (=badly engineered) one that shoots istelf in the face. Also if it was that easy, then why didn't more companies adopt it?
The main reason people thought it was advanced had nothing to do with that, go read his papers.
The most cited reason?
They verbally communicated with each other which gave the illusion of them actually working together as a team. Something that had absolutely nothing to actually do with the AI itself at all.

I already was aware of that in 2005. If you have some technical background you know that the verbal communication is an illusion but a good one since it enhances the image of facing smart opponents. Doesn't automatically mean that the AI was 'simple'.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Look. I love the games where there is no scaling like Gothic or Divine Divinity for example. I love clearing the map and exploration despite some limitations.
It's just if there is a choice between inevitable bumping into low leveled monsters when you're op already or scaled ones i would prefer scaling.
It's like famous red herring "Democracy is the worst form of Government…”
Your preferences are all fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that the entire point of having an open world is for the player to be able to explore, break the sequence, meet something that kicks his butt, farm on easier stuff to kick its butt in return, escape from a gigachad enemy to get a powerful item and all that jazz. You can have acceptable as well as absolutely disgusting implementations of scaling, but scaling pretty much always works directly against all those ideas.

There are lots of ways to mitigate getting op spoiling the game. Make combat meaty and cool so massacring weak enemies feels satisfying, make combat deadly so that even weak enemies have a way to be dangerous or a drain on your resources and so on. Basically, design your game instead of going for lazy cop outs like "everything scales hurrrr".

This is exactly what ate Oblivion alive. First hour of Oblivion was unforgettable. Then it slowly sunk into a mire of suck and you couldn’t really put your finger on why at the time. Turns out it was level scaling.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
Too bad only 2 very specific subclasses are required for this achievement. And one of them is one of the newer ones which aren't very balanced.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
781
Sad but true

Unrelated but I really really like the idea behind the Blood Mage archetype but I could never give up Empower. Using empower and casting that spell that made magic missile shoot everywhere around you (or any of the magic missile spells) felt so good
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
I wanted to make a bet on infinitron trying to bump obisidian threads with utterly pointless shit that not a soul cares about when pathfinder's beta gets released, but the bookmaker wouldn't accept it. What do.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
I do care. For some reason. I think that maybe these things will lead to other ultra challenges that aren't stupid like this one.
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,473
PoE1 is well worth it and even more so with the DLC (not standalone, integrated into the main game best played around level 7).

PoE2 is one of the best RPGs ive played. Super fun and well made. And probably best looking isometric RPG there is.

What i like in both games is the extensive lore thats there, in-game and in the guides/manuals.
I respect Obsidian for creating a whole complete world from scratch.
 

Tenebris

Scholar
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
256
Are any of the PoE games remotely worth a look?

PoE 1 is actually pretty OK after all the patches and the DLC. Well the DLC is mostly the best part of it.
You're not the first to tell me that the White March is pretty good, is it standalone or do you need to play PoE1 first to try it?
It's merged into the base game when you buy it. You have to play through some of the base to get to it.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
Are any of the PoE games remotely worth a look?

PoE 1 is decent if the mod to remove backers NPC is up to date.
It's mediocre, i think it's the game that introduced CYOA story bits and skill checks that PK used as well but i could be wrong, that's the only part i found quite interesting when i first played it.

Tried to play it again but i couldn't muster the strength to get past the first village.

I wouldn't touch Deadwater with a ten-foot pole...
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,473
Are any of the PoE games remotely worth a look?

PoE 1 is decent if the mod to remove backers NPC is up to date.
It's mediocre, i think it's the game that introduced CYOA story bits and skill checks that PK used as well but i could be wrong, that's the only part i found quite interesting when i first played it.

Tried to play it again but i couldn't muster the strength to get past the first village.

I wouldn't touch Deadwater with a ten-foot pole...
Funny because PoE2 is even better than the original in most areas.
Why would you use a frickin mod to remove the backer NPCs when they are clearly marked and you can easily just NOT TALK TO THEM?
If PoE is mediocre then PK is a 2/10.

Fukin clown. Of crouse you cant get past the first village when you're too busy doing 280 posts per month. And nother 280 at the M4M section on reddit.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
Tbh, I think the main issue with this achievement is protecting Vela, that's why Priest of Skaen is so good. Resetting fights with invisibility + Withdraw. Blood Mage works too because it has infinite resources in a game built around limited ones and Withdraw is also available as a scroll.
 

CodexTotalWar

Learned
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
121
Yeah, Vela definitely causes a lot of issues for strong solo classes who otherwise might have been fine (Single Class Monks, Chanters, etc).

Both Priests and Bloodmages can get invincibility + infinite resources pretty easily, which means you can completely focus on managing Vela, controlling the field, without worrying about dying yourself.

Priests - get Brilliant (ability regen) from Shroud of Phantasm (hit self with Rahkan boots till proc), add Barring Deaths Door for immortality, and loop infinitely with Salvation of Time
Wizard - use Wall of Draining + Potion of Last Stand for immortality. You can add Brilliant per above + an annoying trick with the magran belt, or just use Bloodmagic for infinite resources.

The Priest route is definitely much safer, hence why you see it more. Like Lacrymas says, Skaen is extra good because on top of that, they get invisibility and withdraw.

I think other classes can do it, but the margin of safety is just so small without invincibility.
 

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