Commandos-Like Desperados III from Mimimi Productions (Shadow Tactics devs) - now with Money for the Vultures DLC

[Zombra]

Eh, mind control is fine. It isn't substantially more OP than say Doc's sniper bullets. It's all about deciding when to use it, and it's nice to have a "combo breaker" to fall back on when you can't figure out the exact "right way" to solve this or that super difficult enemy configuration. Personally I usually ended levels with mind control darts still in the bank because I learned to save them only for real ball busters.

 

[Uncreation]

I don't usually buy games anymore, because i already have a huge backlog after years of cheap games on gog, freebies everywhere and pirating whatever i wanted. But i bought this around Christmas and so far i am not regretting it. I also remembered that i never finished the firsts one so i also reinstalled that one first and finished it, so i have the first one fresh in my mind as well.

One of the things i like in the new one, is that it feels more tactical in some ways than the first one. In Desperados 1 you could sometimes brute force missions or at least parts of maps. This doesn't seem true here. No more snake bullshit, no more standing behind a corner and shooting 20 guys as they run to check out a noise. The gun mechanics looked weird at first, with the limited ammo, but i like it now. Also, there are little things that don't seem important at first but that are actually a bit deeper on a second look. For example everyone can carry bodies now, but some can only slowly drag them while prone. At first i thought it would always be better to carry a body with someone like Cooper or Hector since it would be faster. But on some ocasions it turned out to be better to use Kate for example, since enemies wouldn't see her, since she isn't carrying them standing up. It's cool to see something that seems like a stricly worse version of another skill turn out to have advantages.

On the other hand 1 has greater enemy variety while the new one only has 3 enemy types and you see them from the first mission. I'm only about half way through but from what i understand there aren't any new enemies to look forward too which is a bit dissapointing. I'm not sure i like moving away from charges type abilities to cooldown ones, but i get that it's a conscious decision on the devs part. The ammo is limited so that is an exception, and i think for this game it works better this way, and if you play on a higher difficulty your hp is low enough that unlimited heals don't matter that much. Maybe except in Isabelles case. Speaking of her, this voodoo lady is some navy seal or some shit. She can climb, swim and carry bodies like Cooper, her linking ability is bullshit, her mind control is bullshit. At least the mind control has limited uses but still.

Overall i like it and half way through i'm still having fun with it. Didn't buy the dlc, though i thought about it since it was on sale during the Christmas period as well. I'll wait and finish the game first and see if i still want more.

 

[HansDampf]

Eh, mind control is fine. It isn't substantially more OP than say Doc's sniper bullets. It's all about deciding when to use it, and it's nice to have a "combo breaker" to fall back on when you can't figure out the exact "right way" to solve this or that super difficult enemy configuration. Personally I usually ended levels with mind control darts still in the bank because I learned to save them only for real ball busters.

But it is. You can't just snipe anyone without consequences. Enemies are all watching each other. If they see someone die (and they will on Desperado) they will raise alarm immediately. Exceptions are environmental kills and Isabelle's mind control. That's what I mean. It's the only ability that can do that. And it's more rewarding to find other solutions and remove key targets with teamwork.
But this goes into nitpicking territory. The main issue I have with this game is the mission fatigue I started to feel in the third chapter and especially the DLC. Other than that, it's a great game. The first two chapters were so good I stayed up late at night to play more, which I rarely do.

 

[Uncreation]

Well, i finished it a few days ago and i have to say it's a great game. :D I might give Shadow Tactics a try after this. The only thing i didn't like was that there were just 3 enemy types. It could really have used one or two more. Maybe a bit too much ammo spread around the levels, but i did only play it on hard so maybe on desperado it's just enough. I still think Isabelle's linking and mind control are bullshit, but i did limit myself to only one use of mind control per mission, with one exception, so it wasn't too bad.

Also, i loved the ending. Not just from a story perspective, though i liked that too and i prefer this one to the one in the first game. I mean i loved the last fight, really well done. Much better than the one in Desperados 1. That one was the worst part of the first game for me. Not only was it easy, it was also goofy. That El Diablo dude was some kind of James Bond villain, turns out you were fighting 19th century Goldfinger or some shit. Speaking of villains i liked Frank better. He seemed more like a proper western villain.

Are the dlc missions good? I might buy them, maybe on the next sale. Until then i might try the challenges or Shadow Tactics since i already have that.

 

[Beowulf]

I agree with the high praise the game is receiving here - it's a solid single player game and one I had really fun playing.

Yes, Isabelle's skills are bullshit and OP, but the way enemies are placed encourages you to use at least the linking darts. I tried to not use the mind control until I decided to go all ham on the last missions and use every ability those characters had.
But it is true that her abilities take something away from the game, as with the levels where I could link baddies and just kill two of them at once, I basically stopped luring them away or distracting with coins or doc's bag (mind you - I played on hard, not on the highest diff).

Anyway - the game has its own charm. I remember using the snake and corner shooting exploits as well - there is no such thing here. I was afraid that the visual design leaned too much to the cartoony side, but that's not the case . It looks good and runs surprisingly well considering it's a Unity title. There were still some UI bugs when I played it, but nothing major.
I also experienced the mission fatigue, but taking a short break from the title helped with that. The last missions, while quite long and complex are also fun and I barely had any moments of frustration throughout the game. Levels are nicely designed, albeit a little too linear at times.
There is also basically no mission variety - all stealth and no kills playthroughs are optional unless you want to go for all the badges. I also wish there was a little more interactivity with the world items.
The game is not revolutionary, nor it doesn't try to be, but it is a solid "remake" entry in a genre long dead.

Solid game all around, I'll take a short break before doing DLC missions and a longer one before going for the shogun, but I'm definitely looking forward to their next game.

 

[Ivan]

While often frustrating b/c it's the little things that will get you caught and force a quick-load, I'm really enjoying the puzzle solving going on in Desperados 3. The game starts off with an odd Hitman-esque style level that does not typify those that follow. I was afraid the majority of the levels would be like the first, featuring more rail-roaded solutions/chekov's gun items to use in the environment. First thing I've noticed, not sure if it was like this in Shadow Tactics (it's been a while), is that the levels are pretty huge. While I enjoy the game, the enjoyment is often hindered by the little things that blow your cover: one of your units not being FULLY in cover, your units to RUNNING to execute an attack, it's little things like these that often make me quick-load.

I think I'm going to best enjoy this playing a map a day/night, as I don't really see this as something I can binge. It's quite a fatiguing experience, in a way b/c each map is a sequence of little puzzles. I myself like taking out the NPCs without raising any alarms, perhaps that's what's making me take so long.

Also, there's great payoff at reaching a level's end, especially when reflecting on how imposing the enemy placements/groups look upon level start (Eagle Bridge comes to mind, I had to pull off some super micro-managed slow-mo moves to clear some groups w/longcoats).

 

[spectre]

I think I'm going to best enjoy this playing a map a day/night, as I don't really see this as something I can binge. It's quite a fatiguing experience, in a way b/c each map is a sequence of little puzzles. I myself like taking out the NPCs without raising any alarms, perhaps that's what's making me take so long.

From what I recall, it's been like this since the first Commandos, after the introductory missions, one map a day works best so that you don't get burned out.
A lot of the time will be spent just analyzing the map layout, looking for threads to pull, sometimes brute-forcing to shake things up. And it can be quite taxing, especially if you want
to solve it nice and proper. It always feels dirty when I need to take damage or let an alarm go off. There are speedruns of course, but that's for subsequent playthroughs once you've mastered the dynamics on a map and all the shortcuts you can take.

 

[Ivan]

Chiming in after finishing the base campaign on Hard:

It's a great follow up to Shadow Tactics. If you liked that, more of that Jenga style gameplay is here. The soundtrack is great, while the story and character work is rather poor, thankfully it's the gameplay that shines here. Levels were surprisingly, sometimes exhaustingly, long but always well thought-out and very rarely felt truly overtly frustrating (the only route I could not figure out at all was setting fire to the haystack in the active train level). Also, damn fine job of offering the player alternate objective routes. Not sure if Shadow Tactics did this this well, but the incentive to replay the levels is mightily strong here, excellently done.

What I wish to see in future: better movement when having the whole squad selected, I often found that they had pathfiding issues when grouped up in close spaces. I'd love to see new environmental player hazards, (e.g. why stop with sound, why not have a "stench" feature whereby enemies could be temporarily alerted if you traverse sewage or shit).

Almost forgot to mention, I had a pretty horrible time with the end-game sequence. I wasn't too sure what the game was asking me to do, especially b/c it seemed at times random the times that I caused an alarm while taking out some of the non-blue panchos. In the end, I managed to kill off the 8 panchos without clearing the map of the regular goons (no idea if it's even possible). Thankfully I had the Doc's bomb, I often forgot to use that in most of my playtime, and I had no ammo for Hector, so retrieving that was tough.

My favorite level: there are many excellent levels but the one that will stay with me the most is the Devitt Hacienda (party). Excellent design, great spectacle, and the song was awesome to boot.

TLDR: another great title with surprisingly great music. definitely will be buying this to check out the dlc (played on gamepass). going to check out the original Desperados game now on GOG.

 

[Atchodas]

Started this last week feels like a great game, only thing that annoys me is that most of characters are coppies of Shadow Tactics characters,kinda gives out Shadow Tactics reskin in wild west vibes, which essentially is not a bad thing because Shadow Tactics was great game too.

 

[Zombra]

Been wanting a game like [Commandos] again ever since ST:Blades of the Shogun.

Did you never hear about Desperados III ? It's very good.

 

[Neki]

Did you never hear about Desperados III ? It's very good.

Not even gonna lie, I always thought that when people were talking about desperados III they meant helldorado(which is shit).

Might give it a try.

 

[Ivan]

Yo, wanted to ask something since D3 just came to mind: how did you guys resolve the final encounter in the game? I could have sworn I got through it in some super ad-hoc convoluted way. Felt like I missed a "proper" solution.

 

[fork]

I can only remember that it was underwhelming compared to most other, regular situations in the game, not how I solved it.

 

[Zombra]

Yo, wanted to ask something since D3 just came to mind: how did you guys resolve the final encounter in the game? I could have sworn I got through it in some super ad-hoc convoluted way. Felt like I missed a "proper" solution.

I didn't video it or anything. I wonder if I still have a save game at that point. A convoluted way certainly doesn't sound wrong. I remember having a fuck of a time positioning all the characters so they couldn't be seen, yet most of them could hit multiple targets. There was at least one character who had to change position during the actual strike as I recall.

One of the best final challenges in gaming imo. No gotchas, no new mechanics, just a diamond hard final exam where you have to use every scrap of knowledge gained along the way. Also it didn't feel like there was only one exact solution, you just had to use your tools intelligently to build one of many possible perfect mousetraps.

Actually it would be fun to video everyone's solution and compare them

 

[Punch]

Did you never hear about Desperados III ? It's very good.

Not even gonna lie, I always thought that when people were talking about desperados III they meant helldorado(which is shit).

Might give it a try.

Why would you make up a name for an inexistant game and claim it's desperados III? I don't get it.

 

[zapotec]

Best commandos style game is:

https://www.gog.com/game/soldiers_heroes_of_world_war_ii

I found shadow tactics super easy compared to commandos / heroes of world war ii.

Desperados 1 is terrible , i have no idea why it's highly praised, probably because you played it when you were dumb teenagers.

 

[Ivan]

some fun listening:


design direction interview to come soon!

 

[HansDampf]

Yo, wanted to ask something since D3 just came to mind: how did you guys resolve the final encounter in the game? I could have sworn I got through it in some super ad-hoc convoluted way. Felt like I missed a "proper" solution.

It's certainly a better "boss fight" for this type of game than El Diablo.

 

[Ivan]

Nice! I recall not being able to clear the roof without being spotted. Cool that we each solved it in our own way.

 

[Ivan]

hopefully this means a few more buys

 

[adddeed]

Best commandos style game is:

https://www.gog.com/game/soldiers_heroes_of_world_war_ii

I found shadow tactics super easy compared to commandos / heroes of world war ii.

Desperados 1 is terrible , i have no idea why it's highly praised, probably because you played it when you were dumb teenagers.

Lol.....Soldiers isn't even the same genre. It is not a Commandos style game, its a real time tactics game more in common with Myth or Ground Control (and its a lot of fun i agree, although sequel Faces of War is superior)

And Desperados 1 is a masterpiece, so you're a dumbfuck retard.

 

[vibehunter]

Yo, wanted to ask something since D3 just came to mind: how did you guys resolve the final encounter in the game? I could have sworn I got through it in some super ad-hoc convoluted way. Felt like I missed a "proper" solution.

I recall having to use McCoy’s gas grenade, which I thought was pretty lame. Haven’t checked whether there’s a cooler way to do it.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Still my favorite game of 2020. I even liked the narrative better than I thought I would, this being a tactics game and all. Whilst not anything original, it still had a decent ending, fun characters and entertaining banter in between them, even during actual gameplay. I honestly liked it lots more than quite a few self-proclaimed narrative heavy/focus games, as it seems theirwriters and designers quite often seem to have little to no respect for the (interactive) medium they are working in. Whilst barely a focus of the game, it still would have been a lesser experiene if it all was but a few losely connected scenarios to finish. The decent German voice-acting supported this -- they had recorded new lines even for the DLCs.

Admittedly, I hadn't played Shadow Tactics before (and still have yet to play it), so it was all pretty fresh an experience for me to boot. Upon firing up the ST demo, I naturally noticed a lot of similarities, also in terms of character abilities. Initially I still wanted to buy this after finishing the Desperados DLC and also doing quite a few of the badges/challenges. But as it's such a focused kind of experience, I didn't in fear of "burning out" on it all.

It is like a real video game! No stupid business model, no hour long cut scenes, no filler quests, just 100% pure gameplay with actual challenge for the players in 20-30hours! In 2020 that's a fuckin' miracle!

YT dude posting under the game's accolade trailer. Nails it.

I think I may order a copy of Shadow Tactics too though, there's still a few retail Steelbook editions available. According to dev interviews, their games so far were an expeirence in figuring this genre out -- with the next game they want to make it an experience fully of their own. Gonna be a day 1 purchase for me.

Then again, Partisans 1941, which I was always rather undecided about, is also on sale... and that seems to have mechanics that neither Shadow Tacitcs nor Desperados has added on top of the genre formula.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

By the way, I've just seen David Jaffe's keynote he mentioned in the interview Ivan linked to with Mimimi. Indeed there's also a section where he talks about how this simple and cliche story is pretty decently linked to the actual game and mechanics you get to play with.

https://youtu.be/MkkCfV0yOV0?t=918

Honestly, at the end of the game I remember I sat there at that final cutscene, which so perfectly mimics what you had to do before; and had actually clapped my hands, which is something I've never, if rarely ever done upon finishing a game.

Boggles the mind if those mechanics were actually linked to something a bit more elaborate, but heh.

 

[HansDampf]

He is reading a bit much into it. Isabelle's abilities also feel the most abstract and out of place. What's that supposed to tell me about black people?
The main reason why the final boss works well is because you have to do exactly what you've been learning the entire game, but now it's a more complicated and challenging puzzle with a satisfying bang. The connection to the story and characters (if intended) is just a neat cherry on top.