Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Desiderius]

No crafting is not a problem if the developer knows how to itemize their game properly.

Kingmaker had some severe itemization problems so it's not clear that Owlcat really knows what they're doing in this regard.

What was wrong with Kingmaker itemization? Other than being gated behind artisans where retards couldn't find it? Wrath has some of the best I've ever seen. So far this crafting is perfect - you've got the Scroll Savant making her own scrolls and the Alchemist brewing potions. Looks like the levels are off by one though (need lvl 2 equipment for level one spells even though interface says same level should work).

 

[Tacgnol]

No crafting is not a problem if the developer knows how to itemize their game properly.

Kingmaker had some severe itemization problems so it's not clear that Owlcat really knows what they're doing in this regard.

Kingmaker followed the usual trend of 3e based games of including too many weapon types from the source material and not bothering to itemise consistently.

Crafting at least means you can use your preferred weapon proficiency without fear that the devs forgot to include a decent item in the group.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Kingmaker followed the usual trend of 3e based games of including too many weapon types from the source material and not bothering to itemise consistently.

Crafting at least means you can use your preferred weapon proficiency without fear that the devs forgot to include a decent item in the group.

While I agree that itemization could be better, taking Weapon Focus doesn't mean you can't literally use anything else.

Sure I won't get decent Falcata until much later with Artisan but in the meantime, there are like a dozen items you can use. By the time late-game rolls I think there is a decent item for all weapon types? I guess the later added items like dart and throwing axe not so much, but for the items in the base game by Pitax you should already get it. Exotic is kinda tricky because you can't order from the artisan a specific item I guess.

 

[FreeKaner]

Kingmaker had problem of simultaneously handing out plussed out items too easily and most unique items not being unique enough. I understand this is partly caused by just the amount of item types they have to make but crafting doesn't alleviate this problem and instead makes it worse.

 

[Desiderius]

So we start at Drezen in the Graveyard where there are more rewards for the sharp-eyed (only problem with gating cool loot behind Perception is that slower players like Tacgnol never find it so think the itemization sucks):

Spoiler

First Serious Rapier (they just added a Cold Iron one at the very beginning of the tutorial so that early Cam isn't completely useless and there's a +1 you pick up at some point). Stacking bonuses are good bonuses. Ghosts are Undead.

Feeling like a Companion should have more than one choice per level in her specialty school. Animal Growth will complete the evolution of Seelah's Mount into dominance. And they took two attacks off of Smilodon. Oh yeah, we also hit level nine.

Since MC isn't attacking with weapons or needing to beat save or resistance with spells he can focus on skill monkeying. Animal Aspect Racoon is +4 to Trickery and Stealth and just took the Feat for that too, I think. Always get them mixed up. Stealthy I think. Should be able to sneak in and Disarm some traps now.

Seelah had several good options but went with Intimidating Prowess to shore up her Intimidation since Lann just got Shatter Defenses. Mythic Dazzling lets her use it as a Standard (or Move or Swift) at a penalty. Prowess cancels out the penalty (and then some). Against single target the old standby Demoralize works. Great ability the whole game.

Not that it was needed here. This guy is fun. Pretty much no AC but a nice healthy DR/- and a funky suit of armor.

He'll make you pay for crit fishing! Nice gotcha for first serious fight. And he also specializes in offing the HKs Regill gave you.

Unlike the description, Find Traps only boosts your Perception for, yes, Finding Traps, but it's good at that. You can see Ember has it up now too.

Don't forget about Ember's familiar. It boosts her Perception so if you put points into that you'll be rewarded. This Rod is so money for all the narrow Evocation spells that Sosiel and Daeran can now spam with abundant casting.

Like this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/undeath-to-death/ or this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/holy-smite/

And sometimes there's randomly tough checks with junk. Should have used Touch of Good here. Didn't get punished.

The Lann/Seelah Intimidate/Shatter combo reaching full fruition, with Ember chipping in for good measure. If I ever do kick it up to hard this will be the go to strategy. There were three of those Derakni waiting outside the Temple and their Drones had the Hellknights (and Tiger) attacking the good guys for awhile. I could imagine this one getting dicey on hard.

Next time to the dungeons.

 

[Desiderius]

Kingmaker had problem of simultaneously handing out plussed out items too easily and most unique items not being unique enough. I understand this is partly caused by just the amount of item types they have to make but crafting doesn't alleviate this problem and instead makes it worse.

Wrath is vastly improved on both ends, at least at low levels.

Kingmaker followed the usual trend of 3e based games of including too many weapon types from the source material and not bothering to itemise consistently.

Crafting at least means you can use your preferred weapon proficiency without fear that the devs forgot to include a decent item in the group.

While I agree that itemization could be better, taking Weapon Focus doesn't mean you can't literally use anything else.

Sure I won't get decent Falcata until much later with Artisan but in the meantime, there are like a dozen items you can use. By the time late-game rolls I think there is a decent item for all weapon types? I guess the later added items like dart and throwing axe not so much, but for the items in the base game by Pitax you should already get it. Exotic is kinda tricky because you can't order from the artisan a specific item I guess.

Intended playstyle is you use your Class proficiencies then if something cool shows up you want to use you pick up the Exotic prof at that point and go off. Were never intended to focus on one weapon other than the rare class (like Sword Saint) which required it. Why does everyone assume you're supposed to restrict yourself to one weapon? What would Martial Proficiency even be for in that case.

 

[Shadenuat]

Kingmaker followed the usual trend of 3e based games of including too many weapon types from the source material and not bothering to itemise consistently.

P much, so in Wrath, instead of just removing half of them like reasonable beings, they simply made their designers brute force through problem and fill local markets with any kind of artifact you d ever want. These designers instead could have placed a smaller amount of weapons in more interesting locations, write them backstories etc. basically adding more Radiance(? i only know ru name) longsword-style weapons.

You first make mistakes in fundamentals of your game, then it all piles up.

But like, whatever, it's better I guess.

They also made selections of belts and diadems and stuff limited which is a big +.

 

[Desiderius]

Moving to unique effects on proc system is a big mechanical improvement.

 

[Shadenuat]

There's too many of them, there should be an upgrade path from magical weapons to procs, or even choice, between an elemental damage, proc or better enchantment. It's again falling into that formulaic thing.

Baldur's Gate 2 had some similar style weapons, but they were very unique and usually at the end of the upgrade line.

 

[Desiderius]

I disagree. The built in DCs for the checks are a great way to slowly obsolete an item that provides a unique play experience to make room for new ones without the banality of just +2 is better than +1 and it lets you improve weapons without having to constantly tick up the numbers like Diablo 3 or D:OS2. There is probably too many of them but people like their different weapon types (obviously can thin out starknives and the like but most have unique niche). It's not like you have four different Longswords with different procs at the same time.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I disagree. The built in DCs for the checks are a great way to slowly obsolete an item that provides a unique play experience to make room for new ones without the banality of just +2 is better than +1 and it lets you improve weapons without having to constantly tick up the numbers like Diablo 3 or D:OS2. There is probably too many of them but people like their different weapon types (obviously can thin out starknives and the like but most have unique niche). It's not like you have four different Longswords with different procs at the same time.

And with GMW it is interesting because now you can have build based on weapon without worrying it becoming obsolote because you are losing 20% hit chance from +1 to +5.

Now granted there are not that many +1 or +2 weapon that would warrant a whole game (their DC is usually kinda on the low side and wll get obosolte as enemey has higher Save) but I personally find the varried itemization to be better than +5 GREATSWORD WITH AXIOMATIC FIREBLAST SONIC so you get all the damage

 

[Shadenuat]

Dragging difficulty slider helps with making them obsolete even better

I'm not sure why you are being interested in item becoming obsolete in a traditional RPG. People didn't throw away Mace of Disruption in BG2 because it was just +1 against most enemies for example. With these set DCs you're not choosing between one effect or another, but still will take higher level weapon because old one can't keep up in any way.

 

[Yosharian]

Let's not forget that BG2 actually had limited crafting in the form of Cespenar and the smithy in Athkatla that can both upgrade existing weapons to keep them viable.

 

[Desiderius]

Dragging difficulty slider helps with making them obsolete even better

Some people can debuff.

GMW is currently stacking indefinitely like Magical Vestment, Armor so agreed if it were working as intended (as Magical Vestment, Shield does) it would perform that function.

 

[Shadenuat]

Let's not forget that BG2 actually had limited crafting in the form of Cespenar and the smithy in Athkatla that can both upgrade existing weapons to keep them viable.

They really came close to best itemisation or at least an idea of it.
There are obviously weapons you would throw away at some point, like a stick or regular weapon or a common magical weapon.
There can be a weapon that performs average, but has very high price so you can sell it and get 2 better ones. But it is dear to one of your companions and they ask not to sell it.
There can be a weapon that performs very well but only for limited time and limited selection of alignments.
A weapon that is contextually good but you won't keep it all the time.
A weapon that has upgrade path later similar to BG2.
A weapon that has a proc, like WOTR proc weapons, but for one particular class or race it scales off indefinitely of one of their stats or skills, or how many alignment choices you made per game.
And then there are KOTOR mods (like KOTOR2 [Charname] crystal that can be put inside any lightsaber and changes with your decisions).

But if you want to implement these kind of weapons, you of course can't have 20 exotic weapon types in the game on top of 20 other standard types. And you don't want idea of making stuff obsolete drive your design after you carefully coded and written stories and implemented items like that.

(To be fair WOTR has some items which scale like boots that +Athletics rank to your charge damage, but many weapons all seem to follow same formula for some reason)

 

[jungl]

They should of added a crafting system in the game. Separate limited ingredients u can collect when ur army wins battles. Have it cost gold and need be high enough level. OR have some of the items u find on vendors and in the world be randomly generated.

The itemization they have now is meh boring shit for 2021 game they could improve it.

 

[Shadenuat]

There are kind of ingredients and crafting in Chapter 3. The ui and slowly driving your horse after your army cleared stuff is ass tho.

Btw interestingly how they made rest in Chapter 4, crafting items doesn't work in it.

 

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/4219280084040061310

Beta Issues Known

Pathfinders,

Thank you for reporting all those nasty bugs in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. This helps us immensely to find new issues and fix them in the future.
And with this number of beta players we receive a lot of reports. This is great - those reports cover a lot of bugs. Unfortunately, there are two sides to this coin. While all those reports help us immensely, a lot of them outline the issues we are aware of. Collating those bugs takes a lot of time from our QA.
This is why we kindly ask you to use this document as a reference when you report bugs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...0rsmK7oSLQEqnnENQ/edit#heading=h.7ax2cdypcoe7

The most often reported known issues
(Please don't report them, as we are working on them already! )

1. Autosave after the battle with Minagho is broken and will teleport into a different location. We advise making a manual save.

2. If you finish the battle with Minagho in the Grey Garrison at the end of the chapter in turn-based mode, you won’t be able to proceed.

3. In Leper's Smile if you go off the path to pick up loot more than ONCE, your morale will drop to -100. It's safe to do once, no more. Please make a save before entering that location just in case.

4. While recruiting, a player’s army might be attacked by demons. Because of this UI will freeze and battle won’t start.

5. Character’s turn might freeze. Fix: turn off and on TBM.


This will extremely help us and save a lot of time that could be spent on finding out the reasons why something doesn’t work.

Best regards,
OwlcatGames

 

[mediocrepoet]

The link in your quote is broken. It's adding some other stuff at the beginning and has to be copied and pasted.

 

[Desiderius]

Could you get Second Mystery working pls? Without it Daeran is unplayable (he has no Revelations).

They’re always working on some game breaking issue I’ve never encountered while I report stuff until I’m blue in the face and never get so much as an answer.

To be fair most of those issues were corrected nine months later or whatever. Far as I can tell though official channels are just PR.

 

[DemonKing]

Got backer email today listing their companions with images and their romance preferences:

1 x Straight male (albeit he looks like a half breed demon freak).
1 x (hot) Straight female.
1 x Gay male.
4 x Bisexuals of both genders.

In real world c.90% of the population is straight. In fantasy land straights are a minority...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Got backer email today listing their companions with images and their romance preferences:

1 x Straight male (albeit he looks like a half breed demon freak).
1 x (hot) Straight female.
1 x Gay male.
4 x Bisexuals of both genders.

In real world c.90% of the population is straight. In fantasy land straights are a minority...

what's wrong, getting coldfeet about clownworld?

 

[DemonKing]

what's wrong, getting coldfeet about clownworld?

No I just yearn for the times when CRPG party members were a bunch of stats with maybe some fun VO rather than having the default position of being willing to open any orifice to anyone.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

what's wrong, getting coldfeet about clownworld?

No I just yearn for the times when CRPG party members were a bunch of stats with maybe some fun VO rather than having the default position of being willing to open any orifice to anyone.

Starting to sound a bit conservative there, might want to go dilate to help you get over it.

 

[Gyor]

Got backer email today listing their companions with images and their romance preferences:

1 x Straight male (albeit he looks like a half breed demon freak).
1 x (hot) Straight female.
1 x Gay male.
4 x Bisexuals of both genders.

In real world c.90% of the population is straight. In fantasy land straights are a minority...

The amount of Golarians population that would be Mongrelmen, Succubi, Tieflings, Aasimar, Mythic, ect..., are far smaller them Golarion's GLBT community. Seriously your party is a self selected group, no reason to believe they should be demographically representive of Golarian.