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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
Must have been a real master of his craft if he managed to get people here of all places excited with this shit.

И обмануть меня несложно
Я сам обманываться рад

А. С. Пушкин.
 

typical user

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
957
The problem is that the project is obviously in development hell rather than prolonged development.
More time never fixes a project in development hell.

Can you elaborate on the differences? And how do you get in and out of dev hell? I know what it roughly is, Duke Nukem Forever took the titular amount of time to make and was mediocre for time and costs but I would like to have more examples.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The problem is that the project is obviously in development hell rather than prolonged development.
More time never fixes a project in development hell.

Can you elaborate on the differences? And how do you get in and out of dev hell? I know what it roughly is, Duke Nukem Forever took the titular amount of time to make and was mediocre for time and costs but I would like to have more examples.
Biggest difference is that development hell involves the project changing hands or significant changes in the key developer positions or management structure, typically after deadlines have already been missed.
Basically the only news about vtmb2 for a while now has involved someone (usually important) being fired or more delays.

The open positions they're hiring for are also a good sign that this game was never anywhere near being finished despite wanting a March 2020 release date. Combined with a lack of any real information(how much have they released about the actual RPG side of the game, really?) means it's looking pretty grim.

This game was supposed to release almost a year ago. Have they even shown us a character sheet yet? Do we know anything about character stats or abilities?

[edit]
oh yeah, they also brought in an outside consultant to help push the game out the door didn't they?
 
Last edited:

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Good(?) news is that a lead designer is no longer listed on their job openings list. Bad news is that "lead character artist" and "lead concept artist" are.

The Lead Character Artist will work closely with creative leadership to help define, champion, and uphold the overall visual quality of our current and future projects. The Lead Character Artist will play a key role in growing the art department by mentoring and guiding less experienced teammates. They will also contribute to the art direction of our projects by generating industry leading AAA character assets and props, and to aid in the artistic development of a given project.

Hardsuit Labs is looking for a Lead Concept Artist to work directly with art and design leadership to help create, define, and evangelize the overall visual style of our current and future projects. The Lead Concept Artist will be responsible for generating a variety of industry leading AAA character and environment concepts, matte paintings, industrial, and graphic design/UI imagery in order to communicate the artistic vision of the project.

Needing these people this late in the project. :lol:
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,579
To be honest, I didn't like what I saw even back then. It was shit beyond my worst expectations.

Paradox should just cancel it and stop wasting money on something that simply can't be shipped.

If they REALLY want it though they can take all the assets and give it to an established studio experienced with Unreal Engine.

Although it's a great mismanagement on their part for allowing something this bad to exist for so long and pouring money in it to this day. They should've cancelled it a long time ago.
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
Good(?) news is that a lead designer is no longer listed on their job openings list. Bad news is that "lead character artist" and "lead concept artist" are.

The Lead Character Artist will work closely with creative leadership to help define, champion, and uphold the overall visual quality of our current and future projects. The Lead Character Artist will play a key role in growing the art department by mentoring and guiding less experienced teammates. They will also contribute to the art direction of our projects by generating industry leading AAA character assets and props, and to aid in the artistic development of a given project.

Hardsuit Labs is looking for a Lead Concept Artist to work directly with art and design leadership to help create, define, and evangelize the overall visual style of our current and future projects. The Lead Concept Artist will be responsible for generating a variety of industry leading AAA character and environment concepts, matte paintings, industrial, and graphic design/UI imagery in order to communicate the artistic vision of the project.

Needing these people this late in the project. :lol:

Is it possible that they are being hired for other projects? I mean, getting concept artist at this stage would imply that they are restarting the development, no? And restarting it at this point sounds beyond retarded.
 

purupuru

Learned
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
414
I said it before and I'll say it again, paradox should get rid of hardsuit labs and turn this into a grand strategy game. Playing CK or CIV games already feels like you are playing as an immortal vampire leader anyway.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Is it possible that they are being hired for other projects? I mean, getting concept artist at this stage would imply that they are restarting the development, no? And restarting it at this point sounds beyond retarded.
"our current and future projects"

Could be pulling a Ken Levine.
 

Eli_Havelock

Learned
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
669
Is it possible that they are being hired for other projects? I mean, getting concept artist at this stage would imply that they are restarting the development, no? And restarting it at this point sounds beyond retarded.
"our current and future projects"

Keep in mind the publisher involved, which means DLCing this to death. Already planned and sold in pre-orders as season pass:
Story Pack I
Story Pack II
Expansion

"All Season of the Wolf content will be available by the end of 2022."

Could be pulling a Ken Levine.

What's that, trying to innovate immersive sims into FPS w/QTEs? :D
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
What's that, trying to innovate immersive sims into FPS w/QTEs? :D

Approving of art every step of the process until it's completed, only to decide that it's all wrong and they have to start over, which blew up Bioshock Infinite's budget to the point that it was unprofitable despite selling multi-millions.

In the past year, a number of high level employees quietly left Irrational for similar jobs at other studios. Levine acknowledges that, in some part, departures are a response to the company's abnormally intense iteration practices.

"I'm a bit of a slow chiseler, you know?" says Levine. "So it doesn't bother me that much. I think it's probably tougher for other people on the team. I think that's probably hard for some people."

Nate Wells, the art director of BioShock Infinite, and arguably the best known Irrational employee after Levine, was susceptible to massive creative gutting. This anecdote from a colleague of Wells gives an idea of what iteration, at its most extreme, was like in the office.

Levine and Wells had a blowout fight over Finkton. In BioShock Infinite, Finkton is the shantytown, home to the workers and outcasts of the floating city of Columbia.

The art team and level designers had been working on Finkton for a long time, with Wells directing the style. The inspiration was like the slums in Jamaica or Key West. All of the housing was wooden and colorful, as if painted by the residents to make the depressed quarters more livable. And each bright shack was stacked atop the next, climbing into the sky like an anthill, with the skyline piercing through it.

Ken had been in level reviews numerous times. Then one day, the Finkton team was doing a play test, when Ken decided the entire stage was wrong. It looked like the residents lived in garbage. It needed to be beautiful, because Columbia was designed so that even the poor lived beautifully.

It was all wrong. And it had to go.

Wells was furious. Levine had been looking at this for months. In August of this year, Wells announced his new role as art director at Naughty Dog Studios.

The Take-Two solution was to lay off dozens of employees and stick Levine with a small team so he's only wasting millions instead of tens of millions of dollars with his directing style.
 

prengle

Savant
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
355
god damn i don't even want vtmb2 to suck, i don't want it to be another fucking tortanic, i just wanted another sleazy dingy paranormal deus ex-y rpg with vampire politics. why the fuck does Current Year have to be so cruel???
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
What's that, trying to innovate immersive sims into FPS w/QTEs? :D

Approving of art every step of the process until it's completed, only to decide that it's all wrong and they have to start over, which blew up Bioshock Infinite's budget to the point that it was unprofitable despite selling multi-millions.

In the past year, a number of high level employees quietly left Irrational for similar jobs at other studios. Levine acknowledges that, in some part, departures are a response to the company's abnormally intense iteration practices.

"I'm a bit of a slow chiseler, you know?" says Levine. "So it doesn't bother me that much. I think it's probably tougher for other people on the team. I think that's probably hard for some people."

Nate Wells, the art director of BioShock Infinite, and arguably the best known Irrational employee after Levine, was susceptible to massive creative gutting. This anecdote from a colleague of Wells gives an idea of what iteration, at its most extreme, was like in the office.

Levine and Wells had a blowout fight over Finkton. In BioShock Infinite, Finkton is the shantytown, home to the workers and outcasts of the floating city of Columbia.

The art team and level designers had been working on Finkton for a long time, with Wells directing the style. The inspiration was like the slums in Jamaica or Key West. All of the housing was wooden and colorful, as if painted by the residents to make the depressed quarters more livable. And each bright shack was stacked atop the next, climbing into the sky like an anthill, with the skyline piercing through it.

Ken had been in level reviews numerous times. Then one day, the Finkton team was doing a play test, when Ken decided the entire stage was wrong. It looked like the residents lived in garbage. It needed to be beautiful, because Columbia was designed so that even the poor lived beautifully.

It was all wrong. And it had to go.

Wells was furious. Levine had been looking at this for months. In August of this year, Wells announced his new role as art director at Naughty Dog Studios.

The Take-Two solution was to lay off dozens of employees and stick Levine with a small team so he's only wasting millions instead of tens of millions of dollars with his directing style.
there is something almost poetic about the lead designer saying the shanty town has to go because the setting is a dystopia where everything is designed to be beautiful
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,579
The Take-Two solution was to lay off dozens of employees and stick Levine with a small team so he's only wasting millions instead of tens of millions of dollars with his directing style.
Their solution was almost as retarded as Levine's directing style, because Irrational was an established studio that simply needed better management, directors and leads.

Levine could've gone to his Ghost Story Games with his skeleton crew and Irrational would've existed to this day.

Instead they closed the studio and poured dozens of millions into Hangar 13 that gave us... Mafia 3.
 

Flying Dutchman

Learned
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
475
I don't know why someone would change the hell of working for Levine to the hell of working for Naughty Dog

Also, with Hardsuit and the hirings, they may need a new concept artist as they desperately try and pitch new projects to other publishers when Bloodlines 2 tanks and Paradox isn't quick to sign a deal for another Bloodlines: Dev Hell.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
man I remember when I was like, 'I wish cdpr was making this game instead'
What is the difference? They both will be done in 10 years and both are extremely buggy on release and will cost shit ton of money to their publishers.
 

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