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Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

What is the best Might & Magic game in the series?

  • Might and Magic: Book I

    Votes: 17 2.3%
  • Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World

    Votes: 29 3.9%
  • Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra

    Votes: 59 8.0%
  • Might and Magic: World of Xeen

    Votes: 180 24.5%
  • Might and Magic: Swords of Xeen

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven

    Votes: 208 28.3%
  • Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor

    Votes: 128 17.4%
  • Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer

    Votes: 26 3.5%
  • Might and Magic IX

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Might and Magic X

    Votes: 73 9.9%

  • Total voters
    735

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,869
Its as true and real as fantasy roleplaying in the 80s and 90s could be pnp or crpg. Speaking of which, didn't someone say they converted M&M to pnp?
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,065
Might and Magic... Is there no verisimilitude?
:notsureifserious:
Level 6, I think I'm getting the idea. Looking for buildings is still annoying and I imagine it's going to get a lot worse. Thank god for the grayface patch and doublespeed.

I'm regretting not RTFM, because it turns out dodging thief and leather knight are not actually good ideas, because of the grandmastery limitations. I'm not going to restart though. The GM will not become an issue for some time and when it happens and I'm bothered by it I can modify those restrictions by some mod or the other (I think).
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,491
Guild membership looks like annoying obstacle at first, yes but you will learn purpose of this system later on. As for verisimilitude there's plenty of NPC to talk about stuff even on the streets besides NPC for hire. As for skill experts... it could be annoying while you're learning the game, but the vast majority of expert teachers are located in the first few locations (Harmondale, TF and Erathia) and there're two of them for each skill (with few exceptions). For Masters/GM there're auto-notes or you can make your own.
I can modify those restrictions by some mod or the other (I think).
Nah man don't do it.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,765
Why no love for M&M IX?
Because it's buttfuck ugly, gameplay is clunky, hunting for teachers is obnoxious because they're clones in a Clones Towns that won't sit on their assess like in M&M 1-8. Dungeons and character developement is nice but that's it. And storywise it's garbage, no matter if you played every (Heroes of)M&M and tracked the story or not.
Still - I rather play IX again instead of X.
 

Kliwer

Savant
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
215
I really don't understand where this bad Legacy reception comes from. This is a really great little game. It has a slightly different style than previous M&Ms, but that's okay. Personally, I am rather surprised by the admiration for M&M 6-8. These are just boring, underdeveloped games. M&M VI was a betrayal of the series. M&M Legacy is a noble return to the roots and a modern development of the formula (not perfect, but solid).
 

Fishy

Savant
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
398
Location
Ireland
I really don't understand where this bad Legacy reception comes from. This is a really great little game. It has a slightly different style than previous M&Ms, but that's okay. Personally, I am rather surprised by the admiration for M&M 6-8. These are just boring, underdeveloped games. M&M VI was a betrayal of the series. M&M Legacy is a noble return to the roots and a modern development of the formula (not perfect, but solid).

6 certainly broke the Terra/Xeen formula, but it retained a lot of its charm, with a vast leveled colourful overworld that you could explore by walking/waterwalking/flying, the 4-team and optional extras, the shitty party that struggles vs a single goblin at first to end up wiping entire cities with a single spell, the themed dungeons, the crippling debuffs... It managed to keep a lot of the spirit while breaking a lot of the mechanics. Personally, while it was unsettling at first, I loved it. Plus there's a lot to be said for spells like meteor shower which have you murder mobs by the dozen on the horizon. That said, never really got into 7 and 8 as I was out-grinded already with 6 and couldn't face another full run form zero to hero and opening every town door to find trainers. But I still have them lying in wait, someday maybe I'll go back and finish them.

Can't comment on X though, I picked it up on the cheap but never got round to playing it. It looks decent from what I've seen.

As for 9, I have seen the wife cry and mention suicide while playing it. I'm not touching that... thing...
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,621
Pope Amole II run somehow forced me to do my own. I hope im done

went through whole game rarely entering turn based. Was just auto attacking with my heavy finger through whole game. I did often try to position myself in a way that wouldnt expose me to too much damage.
1st wall ive hit was when I tried to slay ogre fort in alvar. At that point I started procrastinating until unicorn king spawned(disabled obelisk flag). With vampirism weapon in my possession it was a breeze. Probably hardest part was water plane as I was often out damaged vs my vamprissm heals so had to run around a bit.
After water plane I did hit another hard part when getting through the crystal. 3 ruby dragons did pack quite a punch. If I were to gain further levels it would probably be fine. Couldnt be arsed to drink potions or hoard scrolls. Heroism, bless and levitate were all the spells I was using.
Inside plane I just ran past horrors as my awesome autoattack button wasnt quite effective against them.

Items wise its all relics/artifacts. Cheated a bit to get 2nd vampiric dagger

y4mA7NDwvgJkL0v4NHDpZVTz_uBawsyclT6KiNvx9yQZai7YbUxpMQAMpWqj70j5jYMR4deBecy2UhRM_QwEcwsL8TY4kjcB7j-Sxh4a-rUjFo2yicyjI3oT7aRrnwi7s8AlI-YrV4jSdvULtXgozvF1XH8ELzDwl3Ne56fvObYFP2FYin69X5dnGgEfES-Dh-4


y4mJMV23-gGwFRjsWA7UkVG1VVhZNl7smZdqUGGjlsx9UqxZ5cEgUFrH0oPzhUv8A43YqNlyrUPHlIf_ZggQRotHLOi6BY4PC6EjJ4gXQAfCS7uNgPzMt3nUEevHr-WWGPmPwYy8t-mFNjsOJGdLo2qACKfYY69MTahju5kfWBKaD_sk-8VnVjhKnReR8vJVlWh


y4mXpY4q-F59RbxBqRFr5TXnFlVf6F5p66mrjWm3xbrV-KWjYDm6Kk5cvuNwBPrGuLhqaoLSF_hDFiTipcLznNPVL-huh0egETVq8nkMMqqqjhHWqDdRpRxpf3ftYGClA0B42-Cz9YZYXpefQ9uMRubkr0y2-VXxQySWX4kgQrY5B5TSk-fcMDvOgkNiVFO4czX
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
You should have gotten a few of the dwarf mine ring. Also in water you could have just flown away and ignored the combat. In that plane you could fly without having the fly spell.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,621
You should have gotten a few of the dwarf mine ring.
i do wear one. Didnt know it spawns? Cant say I paid much attention to my items

Also in water you could have just flown away and ignored the combat. In that plane you could fly without having the fly spell.
use terrain to your advantage and you will be fine. In air palace had to make sure I position myself well not to be hit by plethora of sparks
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
You should have gotten a few of the dwarf mine ring.
i do wear one. Didnt know it spawns? Cant say I paid much attention to my items

Also in water you could have just flown away and ignored the combat. In that plane you could fly without having the fly spell.
use terrain to your advantage and you will be fine. In air palace had to make sure I position myself well not to be hit by plethora of sparks
To me the fire plane was always the most annoying. Especially the entry group,it is pretty hard to kill in one go. Indoors they are not much of a problem tho.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
I really don't understand where this bad Legacy reception comes from. This is a really great little game. It has a slightly different style than previous M&Ms, but that's okay. Personally, I am rather surprised by the admiration for M&M 6-8. These are just boring, underdeveloped games. M&M VI was a betrayal of the series. M&M Legacy is a noble return to the roots and a modern development of the formula (not perfect, but solid).

6 certainly broke the Terra/Xeen formula, but it retained a lot of its charm, with a vast leveled colourful overworld that you could explore by walking/waterwalking/flying, the 4-team and optional extras, the shitty party that struggles vs a single goblin at first to end up wiping entire cities with a single spell, the themed dungeons, the crippling debuffs... It managed to keep a lot of the spirit while breaking a lot of the mechanics. Personally, while it was unsettling at first, I loved it. Plus there's a lot to be said for spells like meteor shower which have you murder mobs by the dozen on the horizon. That said, never really got into 7 and 8 as I was out-grinded already with 6 and couldn't face another full run form zero to hero and opening every town door to find trainers. But I still have them lying in wait, someday maybe I'll go back and finish them.

Can't comment on X though, I picked it up on the cheap but never got round to playing it. It looks decent from what I've seen.

As for 9, I have seen the wife cry and mention suicide while playing it. I'm not touching that... thing...

Besides what Fishy just said, VI, VII and VIII retained the essential while improving the UI a lot.
VI (and 7, 8) is still lightning fast, one of the fastest UI ever made, faster inventory navigation for sure.
Fast and easy to navigate cities and areas, very good dungeon design.
There's something to be said for fighting hordes of enemies and annihilating them with a single spell (or two).

Meanwhile, X did many things wrong
Moving, how could they fuck that up?
That's the most basic thing, every single tester had to notice it and yet, every step is marked long enough to be a nuisance
Their cities are hard to navigate labyrinth, yet, you don't have the fly spell or the early teleport spell, they even nerfed Lloyd's beacon because not only it's one location per beacon but its shared with every caster that have it, it's so much retarded i'm speechless.
JRPG blocks in every fucking corner locking shortcuts even in cities and in every fucking dungeon just to get to a single chest and all that backtracking in empty dungeons is so painful.
And i'm not talking about Ubisoft client and their hate for modders.
On top of that, dungeons are just boring mazes, III, IV and V had way better dungeons and even the most basic ones were better because of the spells to navigate them and how fast it all was.
VI+ even improved on the dungeon design overall.

Had they improved their engine (a lot) and added these little QoL improvements, the game would have been way better and gotten a way better reception.
And with full modding support on top of that, it'd have just been great.

Instead, it's just a mediocre and really tedious game.
 
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jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,491
Moving, how could they fuck that up?
That's the most basic thing, every single tester had to notice it and yet, every step is marked long enough to be a nuisance
I don't remember how it's been on release but now you can just press the walk button and move forward freely. With strafe the same way and by looking at the mini-map it's easy to move in the cities and sometimes outside.
you don't have the fly spell or the early teleport spell, they even nerfed Lloyd's beacon because not only it's one location per beacon but its shared with every caster that have it, it's so much retarded i'm speechless.
The world is tiny and via obelisk teleports is very easy to quickly move around even w/o transport/lloyd. That said, I agree that they still should've separate lloyds for different casters, I mean - why not?
JRPG blocks in every sucking corner locking shortcuts even in cities and in every fucking dungeon just to get to a single chest and all that backtracking in empty dungeons is so painful.
It refers to the tiny game's world again and ultimately budget restrictions. I was ok with the blocks, otherwise the world would've felt even smaller after the first run. Forest blocks are only blocking well, forest areas, same for rocks and then water which blocking few tiles in the cities among others yes but is that really big of a deal? The only blocks in dungeons are concentrated in elemental forge but that's the point of that dungeon.
 

Kliwer

Savant
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
215
Meanwhile, X did many things wrong
Moving, how could they fuck that up?
That's the most basic thing, every single tester had to notice it and yet, every step is marked long enough to be a nuisance
Their cities are hard to navigate labyrinth, yet, you don't have the fly spell or the early teleport spell, they even nerfed Lloyd's beacon because not only it's one location per beacon but its shared with every caster that have it, it's so much retarded i'm speechless.
JRPG blocks in every fucking corner locking shortcuts even in cities and in every fucking dungeon just to get to a single chest and all that backtracking in empty dungeons is so painful.
And i'm not talking about Ubisoft client and their hate for modders.
On top of that, dungeons are just boring mazes, III, IV and V had way better dungeons and even the most basic ones were better because of the spells to navigate them and how fast it all was.
VI+ even improved on the dungeon design overall.

Had they improved their engine (a lot) and added these little QoL improvements, the game would have been way better and gotten a way better reception.
And with full modding support on top of that, it'd have just been great.

Instead, it's just a mediocre and really tedious game.

It never ceases to amaze me that different people have such different tastes. It's kind of wonderful and uplifting in this globalized, unified world.

In my opinion the word "tedious" is no better for anything than M&M 6-8. Especially 6. It is a torment to survive the pointless hordes of monsters in this game. Moreover, this engine, in my opinion, is not an "upgrade". It is a heresy. It is played like a crippled shooter, not cRPG. And M&M X offers us a very good, very RPGish combat system.

Dungeons are obviously worse than in M&M 3-5 (if only because we don't have access to spells like teleport, ethereal, jump, wizard eye etc.). But compared to those of the M&M 6 - they're gorgeous. With an interesting structure. And a lot of riddles and puzzles in them (in M&M 6 we practically only fight). These puzzles are a bit too simple, but still good. Tower of Enigma is a really good, unique dungeon - even from the perspective of the good old days. Blobber without puzzles is an abomination - and in M&M 6-8 there are almost no puzzles at all. This alone makes M&M X dominant over them.

Also, I have never felt that M&M X is playing too slowly. The fact that the game world unlocks as the plot progresses is acceptable to me. A slightly different structural idea.

The Ubisoft client is a disaster, no doubt about it.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,621
in mm6, do you get more xp when you run solo?
thinking about doing either archer, druid, sorc... leaning on druid but cant decide yet
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,621
Stop playing party-based games without a party, it's so sad :negative: (although' 8 is borderline since you don't create your party).

It gives us something to do after we've finished the game 20 times.
1562148_700b.jpg


future of rpgs is single guy against the odds. Parties were a mistake. Parties of more than 4 were even bigger one.
It might have started as group thing with dice, but evolution is bound to kick in at some point
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
I liked how in 10 some fights have you moving back and forth tiles to avoid death. 6-8 yes very annoying checking houses for trainers or whatever really. There obvious easy ways developers could do spiritual sequels to 3-6 and 6-8 make them vastly better games.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
In my opinion the word "tedious" is no better for anything than M&M 6-8. Especially 6. It is a torment to survive the pointless hordes of monsters in this game. Moreover, this engine, in my opinion, is not an "upgrade". It is a heresy. It is played like a crippled shooter, not cRPG.

Nobody thought Mandate of Heaven was an upgrade when they released it.
I was the first to hate them for "betraying" their legacy but they were right to do it, that's where the money was and we probably wouldn't have 7 & 8 if they stuck to their previous engine.

I don't think 6's engine is an upgrade, the UI is a massive upgrade though.
The real masterpiece is probably a mix of III, IV, V, VI, VI and VIII, possibly with some bonus additions from X (well, after 20 years, if they didn't add anything, it would be even worse) like the leveling artifacts, the combat skills and the more dynamic combat with some movement like the boss fight on top of the tower (the second dungeon).

I think every single game from the second and third trilogy has something very good the other ones don't have and i'm sure 1 and 2 do too.
And in spite of their weaknesses, because none is perfect, they all remain extremely fun and all have an extremely polished engine.

That's why Legacy's engine and Ubisoft client are the worst betrayals, aside from the dumbed down and removed traveling spells (teleport, fly, walk on water, LLoyd's becon, ...)


Dungeons are obviously worse than in M&M 3-5 (if only because we don't have access to spells like teleport, ethereal, jump, wizard eye etc.). But compared to those of the M&M 6 - they're gorgeous. With an interesting structure. And a lot of riddles and puzzles in them (in M&M 6 we practically only fight). These puzzles are a bit too simple, but still good. Tower of Enigma is a really good, unique dungeon - even from the perspective of the good old days. Blobber without puzzles is an abomination - and in M&M 6-8 there are almost no puzzles at all. This alone makes M&M X dominant over them.

Also, I have never felt that M&M X is playing too slowly. The fact that the game world unlocks as the plot progresses is acceptable to me. A slightly different structural idea.

The Ubisoft client is a disaster, no doubt about it.

I disagree here, sure, there is some very good dungeons in the series before 6 and i particularly like the traps you can only avoid with spells instead of the "modern" way, aka BG's retarded "disarm some geometric forms", also, cities in IV and V are way more interesting than in 6 and 7 (they're better in VIII though).

Still, even if i was horrified by the 3D dungeons at first, particularly the platformer elements, looks like they were visionary as it seems to be the new trend, verticality sells...

I'd like to know when you first played the Might & Magic series, obviously, you started by early ones but which ones and when?
Also, if all these JRPG blocks don't get to you, maybe you're used to play JRPGs?

I agree about the puzzles, even if there is some "light" puzzles in 6, 7 and 8, they've been dumbed down, which is a shame, it's probably their worst offense with the reduced party size.
Still, X puzzles are nothing like early M&M puzzles; one of my favorite being the cartographer's charade in Darkside in the first city; so ti doesn't make it a better game than 6, 7 or 8.

As for the hordes of enemies, i kind of like it, I like fighting colossal and tough scarce enemies but blasting through hordes of mobs also has it's charm.
And it only turns into a shooter if you want it too, you can have a party without archery or with limited archery to hit and run early on if necessary.

Dungeons are obviously worse than in M&M 3-5 (if only because we don't have access to spells like teleport, ethereal, jump, wizard eye etc.). But compared to those of the M&M 6 - they're gorgeous. With an interesting structure.

I forgot about this...
Did you play 8? Dungeons are way shorter but quite interesting for most of them.
But then, i wonder why you're thinking they're so gorgeous in Legacy?
What's so gorgeous about them and don't talk about the one dungeon you like, tell me how many dungeons in X you think are so gorgeous ?
Do you mean you like the way they look? It would be the beginning of an answer...

Because i don't see it, most dungeons are boring, starting with the first tutorial one, the catacombs under the second city, the castle is a railroaded slog, the dungeon where you get the corrupted earth heart or something is a borefest and so on...

edit : typos
 
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Dungeon Lord

Scholar
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
240
Sorry, I cannot remember any dungeon in Legacy X. They were all boring snorefest.

But Darkmoor of MM6! That is always in my nightmares!
 

Kliwer

Savant
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
215
I'd like to know when you first played the Might & Magic series, obviously, you started by early ones but which ones and when?

Nay. This is my M&M story. I started with HoM&M 2. The game had a great aesthetic for me, but I didn't like it as such (I'm not a strategy fan). I was around 14 at the time and it was the first game on my new computer (CD, not floppy!). If you remember - in the HoM&M2 main menu, if you click on the wooden door - M&M 6 advertisement is displayed. I loved it and I wanted to find this game very much. But it didn't happen until 4 years later. When I was 18, I played M&M 6 for the first time and this game disgusted me, disappointed me and rejected me. Then, in college, I played the M&M7 and 8 - they were a little better in my eyes, but still weak.

So a few years ago I decided to break my prejudices against the M&M series and played World of Xeen. I was enchanted by the game immediately. I liked the manual and the world map. I liked the graphics. Enjoyed the world exploration, dungeons and dungeon puzzles. I have become an admirer of this game. Then I played M&M 3 Isles of Terra - I liked this one even more. I tried to play M&M 2 - it was nice too, but a bit too archaic for me. Since then, I can't understand how such a great series of games could be so spoiled by M&M 6-8.

In 2019 I bought M&MX: L (already patched - I don't buy games younger than a year) and I also fell in love. This is fresh air for me. For years I have not seen any "new" role-playing game and not be disappointed. It was the first "new" game that I really enjoyed. After rubbish such as Skyrim, Witcher 3 or PoE - this game restored my faith that there are still talented game designers.
 
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Fishy

Savant
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
398
Location
Ireland
Sorry, I cannot remember any dungeon in Legacy X. They were all boring snorefest.

But Darkmoor of MM6! That is always in my nightmares!

My memory is hazy but... is that the one with the floating eyes madness extravaganza? Because that one absolutely broke me. :negative:
 

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