Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Kliwer]

Also, if all these JRPG blocks don't get to you, maybe you're used to play JRPGs?

No. I don't know JRPGs at all, I don't like Asian aesthetics. However, I never really liked sandbox games. I've always preferred semi-open world games like BG2 or Gothic. Fully open ended games are fun in theory, but in practice it never (in my opinion) succeeds.

As for the hordes of enemies, i kind of like it, I like fighting colossal and tough scarce enemies but blasting through hordes of mobs also has it's charm.

We can agree to the disagreement, I suppose. Like I said - I don't like M&M 6-8, but I don't see anything wrong with the fact that others like them.

Did you play 8? Dungeons are way shorter but quite interesting for most of them.

It is true. M&M 8 has the best dungeons in the 6-8 trilogy.

But then, i wonder why you're thinking they're so gorgeous in Legacy?
What's so gorgeous about them and don't talk about the one dungeon you like, tell me how many dungeons in X you think are so gorgeous ?
Do you mean you like the way they look? It would be the beginning of an answer...

First of all - as I said - there are riddles here. Rhymes on chests, levers, pressure plates etc. in the very structure of the dungeons. Nothing fancy when compared to the old titles (M&M 3-5, Anvil by Dawn, Lands of Lore), but compared to the present day it is something great.

Second - I like the turn-based combat system in this game. It is the only M&M game with a relatively developed combat system. I will say more - this is almost the only blobber combat system I like. I don't like realtime blobbers. I don't like the "phase" system (like in Wizardry), and I don't like hybrid systems (like in M&M 6-8 or Wizards and Warriors). I like the classic turn-based system. Maybe that's why I like M&M X so much. I also believe that in M&MX, encounters with enemies are cleverly inscribed in the structure of levels (e.g. fighting ghosts on narrow footbridges - when enemies can levitate over gaps and we cannot).

Third - I like the system of hidden, stat-dependent passages. It could be done better, but it's okay.

Fourth - I believe that these dungeons have charm and an interesting structure. Not all, but many. Lighthouse - good placement of enemies in a narrow space and a great final boss + a delightful view on the land as a reward. Tomb of Thousand Terrors with a dark atmosphere. The already mentioned Tower of Enigma - a dungeon without enemies I have not seen since when? Realms of Arkania 1? Elemental Forge - also cool, both in terms of puzzles and boss fights. Even the Underground City - a multi-level dungeon with exits at different points on the map.

To this it should be added that I like the dynamics of this game. Gold is scare on higher difficulty. Fighting is still a challenge. I like character development - very "narrow", you have to count skill points well, never have place for everything you want.

These dungeons - as I mentioned - are not the best ever. But they are solid. Plus, all the rest of the game's aspects are very good.

In my opinion, the best dungeons in this genre of games are offered by Wizards and Warriors. I've never seen anything better. But at the same time, this game is so underdeveloped, so crippled in technical terms, that I often had to force myself to keep going. The M&M X, by contrast, is less brilliant, but more technically polished. Sometimes it's hard to say which game is better. Is the one with a spark of genius, but deeply flawed in some aspects (W&W, Arcanum)? Or the one that does everything only by craftsmanship solidly, but without breaking anything seriously (M&MX: L, Drakensang, BG2)?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Well, let's agree to disagree then, interesting discussion.

Still, one point i strongly disagree with is the hordes of mobs, i hate it in most games but New World Computing made it work in M&M 6+, mostly because of their great AoE spells, outdoors and even indoors.

 

[J_C]

6-8 yes very annoying checking houses for trainers or whatever really.

That gave the games a unique charm, made it more real and "immersive". If I'm making an RPG in the future, you can bet that it will have that feature.

 

[Fishy]

Well, let's agree to disagree then, interesting discussion.

Still, one point i strongly disagree with is the hordes of mobs, i hate it in most games but New World Computing made it work in M&M 6+, mostly because of their great AoE spells, outdoors and even indoors.

Yeah, the AoE spells suddenly feel glorious instead of a simple mana/damage ratio calculated on 1-4 mobs. The hordes also have their moments early game like when you first find a couple disciples of Baa by a hill, then 2 more, then 4 more, then 8 more, then the entire skyline is filled with them. They go down easily but it's a nice touch that plays on what the different engine can bring to the table.

I also feel like we haven't given enough credit to 6-8 in terms of exploration. Water walking and flying make you revisit maps and find a lot of nooks and crannies on islands, high perches or hidden valleys. This is a bit akin to the feeling you get in 3-5 after picking up swimming, forestry or mountaineering and go back to clear up the old maps.

I won't lie, I find the game engine itself clunky and rather ugly, but I really think they managed to make it work. That said, I'm not sure I could get into 6-8 today if I hadn't played them in their days.

 

[Storyfag]

Sorry, I cannot remember any dungeon in Legacy X. They were all boring snorefest.

But Darkmoor of MM6! That is always in my nightmares!

My memory is hazy but... is that the one with the floating eyes madness extravaganza? Because that one absolutely broke me.

I don't really understand the beef you guys have with Castle Darkmoor. I felt right at home there.

Spoiler

 

[J_C]

Sorry, I cannot remember any dungeon in Legacy X. They were all boring snorefest.

But Darkmoor of MM6! That is always in my nightmares!

My memory is hazy but... is that the one with the floating eyes madness extravaganza? Because that one absolutely broke me.

I don't really understand the beef you guys have with Castle Darkmoor. I felt right at home there.

Spoiler

The perfect solution for Castle Darkmoor is to visit other places first and get overleveled, then go back to Darkmoor and mow down the pathetic inmates of the place.

 

[Storyfag]

Sorry, I cannot remember any dungeon in Legacy X. They were all boring snorefest.

But Darkmoor of MM6! That is always in my nightmares!

My memory is hazy but... is that the one with the floating eyes madness extravaganza? Because that one absolutely broke me.

I don't really understand the beef you guys have with Castle Darkmoor. I felt right at home there.

Spoiler

The perfect solution for Castle Darkmoor is to visit other places first and get overleveled, then go back to Darkmoor and mow down the pathetic inmates of the place.

 

[octavius]

Nothing wrong with saving Castle Darkmoor for later. That's the beauty of nonlinear and open world games.

 

[lukaszek]

in mm6, if you were to go all in on selected elemental school of magic, which would give you most devastating spell? Im talking about resistant enemies like kregans or varn. Would it be poison spray paired with acid burst on whatever is immune?

 

[fantadomat]

kregans

Die really easy to sparks. Going for only one school is pretty stupid thing to do. The best combat spells are fire blast and sparks. Dark magic has some powerful spells but they are useless because of how frequently you will need to rest. The only useless magic in all the MM games is earth.

 

[lukaszek]

kregans

Die really easy to sparks. Going for only one school is pretty stupid thing to do. The best combat spells are fire blast and sparks. Dark magic has some powerful spells but they are useless because of how frequently you will need to rest. The only useless magic in all the MM games is earth.

in pyramid there are enemies immune to electric from my memory

 

[fantadomat]

kregans

Die really easy to sparks. Going for only one school is pretty stupid thing to do. The best combat spells are fire blast and sparks. Dark magic has some powerful spells but they are useless because of how frequently you will need to rest. The only useless magic in all the MM games is earth.

in pyramid there are enemies immune to electric from my memory

That is why you use the fireblast on those armies lol. As i said,it is stupid to invest in only one school. You will need to get at least mastery in air,water and fire. I always try to get 12 points in water as fast as i could for the mastery. Air mastery doesn't need to 12p for mastery,you get it once you finish the archmage quest. Fire is the best offensive school for sure,you do need it late game to spam fireblast in close combat.

For the pyramid,i belive that the blue and purple enemy were easy to kill with fire blast and the red ones easy to kill with spark. Genies were pretty annoying tho,especially the big water room. In that place i used a circle of fire while running around like a retard . Once you kill of the blue and purple ones,you could just pick of the red ones with acid splash or what ever the name of the water spell was.

 

[lukaszek]

fantadomat you are changing subject. i would dip into all the schoold to get mastery so will have some versatility provided from it. Question is which school to put all the extra points. Single one for most effect.
For example if its water then I can keep air at minimum since poison spray will out damage my spark

 

[fantadomat]

fantadomat you are changing subject. i would dip into all the schoold to get mastery so will have some versatility provided from it. Question is which school to put all the extra points. Single one for most effect.
For example if its water then I can keep air at minimum since poison spray will out damage my spark

And i answered your question,fireblast is maybe the most useful offensive spell,but a lot of high end enemies have immunity. If you simply want power,then go for meditation and dark magic with sharp metal.

 

[jackofshadows]

IIRC, in mm6, unlike mm7-8, shrapmetal does phys damage so yeah, you cannot miss with that one (immunity wise) for a solo run.

 

[lukaszek]

as i said, elemental

 

[dark_savant]

Better dungeons in M&M IX than M&M VI? Cmon, you must be blind or something. M&M VI has third best dungeons design overall in 3D RPGs after Wizards&Warriors and Dungeons Lords.

 

[DaveO]

I started Might and Magic with MM3. I still have a very soft spot for World of Xeen, although MM6 with its massive dungeons, map, quests etc is a very close second.

 

[d1r]

Better dungeons in M&M IX than M&M VI? Cmon, you must be blind or something. M&M VI has third best dungeons design overall in 3D RPGs after Wizards&Warriors and Dungeons Lords.

More people should play this game. Such an underrated gem.

 

[octavius]

CRPG Addict has now started on World of Xeen.

 

[DaveO]

I've not paid the Addict much attention since he tends to screw things up either party wise or in terms of development or skill choices.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

this thread and poll is very confusing
where is the dark messiah discussion?

 

[DaveO]

Dark Messiah is a totally different game. I bought it during the most recent Steam sale so I should soon have an opinion on where it hits or misses the mark(s).

 

[octavius]

Looks like someone is trolling CRPG Addict and Lilura.

 

[Sceptic]

Dark Messiah is a totally different game. I bought it during the most recent Steam sale so I should soon have an opinion on where it hits or misses the mark(s).

If it hits or misses as a Might and Magic? Don't even try to judge it on these terms.

It's otherwise a decent to good action/RPG/adventure hybrid. I think the system would've worked better if the kick wasn't so obscenely useful, but it's also a fun (if repetitive) way to play the game. Level design is pretty good in parts, much more linear in others. Taken as its own thing it's pretty good. Story-wise it's a sequel to Heroes 5 and its expansions (and I think is the last game in the Ashan continuity, chronologically), but that's pretty much its only link to Might and Magic.

CRPG Addict has now started on World of Xeen.

He ended up with a surprisingly not-terrible party considering he randomly generated it (pretty good way to replay WOX too IMO). Some of his comments on abstraction made me roll my eyes a bit, but he is absolutely spot on with that last paragraph, and thinking back I don't think I ever realized even while playing MM1 how novel the sheer quantity and variety of side quests was.