Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Parabalus]

In essence, Mr. Oldmanpaco, what Desiderius is trying to say is that P:K is very similar to BG 1/2, in the sense that 3 classes are for character that you ought to solo with (or maybe 1 other char).

2 classes are for the people that know what they're doing. Or banking on a very good gimmick a la Jaheira Harm shenanigans.

And, generally, you ought to keep it to pure classes.




The only one that is a blatant disregard to that is Octavia, but she's easy to be explained if you jog that gray matter a bit.

But it has a similar issue to the BG games, where (later on) the game is easier solo, mostly because those other party members die easily and your PC is unhittable.

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

 

[Yosharian]

Yosharian you at least have a steam guide out there but I know you have more. And frankly your magus build looks like it sucks ass.

Alright. On what basis does it suck ass?

And if you want some character builds then ask for some. Like tell me specifically what you're looking for.

 

[Desiderius]

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

You’re doing it wrong. Really wrong. The game is all about team design and working together tactically and strategically.

 

[Parabalus]

In essence, Mr. Oldmanpaco, what Desiderius is trying to say is that P:K is very similar to BG 1/2, in the sense that 3 classes are for character that you ought to solo with (or maybe 1 other char).

2 classes are for the people that know what they're doing. Or banking on a very good gimmick a la Jaheira Harm shenanigans.

And, generally, you ought to keep it to pure classes.




The only one that is a blatant disregard to that is Octavia, but she's easy to be explained if you jog that gray matter a bit.

But it has a similar issue to the BG games, where (later on) the game is easier solo, mostly because those other party members die easily and your PC is unhittable.

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

You’re doing it wrong. Really wrong. The game is all about team design and working together tactically and strategically.

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by the party.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In essence, Mr. Oldmanpaco, what Desiderius is trying to say is that P:K is very similar to BG 1/2, in the sense that 3 classes are for character that you ought to solo with (or maybe 1 other char).

2 classes are for the people that know what they're doing. Or banking on a very good gimmick a la Jaheira Harm shenanigans.

And, generally, you ought to keep it to pure classes.




The only one that is a blatant disregard to that is Octavia, but she's easy to be explained if you jog that gray matter a bit.

But it has a similar issue to the BG games, where (later on) the game is easier solo, mostly because those other party members die easily and your PC is unhittable.

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

You’re doing it wrong. Really wrong. The game is all about team design and working together tactically and strategically.

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by the party.

Be careful of what questions you ask, you're entering advanced buildfag autism territory.

 

[Desiderius]

Buildfag = using the abilities that come with autoleveled companions. I’m convinced that the amount of abilities in this game fries some people’s brains to the extent they curl up into a little ball and just play BG or WoW or whatever instead.

 

[Desiderius]

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by sthe party.

What’s stopping you from buffing the other characters too?

Yeah, my melee toons don't get hit much. Kind of have to do that on Unfair. I also like to play classes that can rez in case things go south. Also use tactical summons and diffcult terrain to manage the battlefield. But mainly just casting the spells I have and paying attention to what stacks and how.

 

[Desiderius]

high damage and snarky comments. Chinks going to chink I guess.

I'm not showing high damage. I'm showing how to suck less. There's nothing tricky going on. I'm just casting my spells and using my abilities. Snark is to counter minmaxxers who've minmaxxed themselves out of competent play.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

In essence, Mr. Oldmanpaco, what Desiderius is trying to say is that P:K is very similar to BG 1/2, in the sense that 3 classes are for character that you ought to solo with (or maybe 1 other char).

2 classes are for the people that know what they're doing. Or banking on a very good gimmick a la Jaheira Harm shenanigans.

And, generally, you ought to keep it to pure classes.




The only one that is a blatant disregard to that is Octavia, but she's easy to be explained if you jog that gray matter a bit.

But it has a similar issue to the BG games, where (later on) the game is easier solo, mostly because those other party members die easily and your PC is unhittable.

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

You’re doing it wrong. Really wrong. The game is all about team design and working together tactically and strategically.

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by the party.

The AI in general is not smart enough to change target on the fly. Just position your party in such a way that put attention to your "tank" first. They even rarely try to attack your ranged party member. If your melee damage dealer is getting hit everytime then you kinda have shit positioning.

With full party the enemies should also die like several times faster unless you messed up somewhere and not hitting them.

In the case they do get hit by something, the game should more than provide enough tools to survive, especially in Pitax of all places where you are nearly on demigod level. KM has a reverse difficulty curve that the game actually becomes easier with time on fixed difficulty due to how strong your party is. If you feel it is easier to solo clear a dungeon because your team keep dying there is probably issue with your items, not using your spells to protect the party, or you really2 botched up feat selection or something, or possibly you have really2 terrible positioning or you play this game like RTS where you just block all character and right click or something,

 

[Parabalus]

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by sthe party.

What’s stopping you from buffing the other characters too?

Yeah, my melee toons don't get hit much. Kind of have to do that on Unfair. I also like to play classes that can rez in case things go south. Also use tactical summons and diffcult terrain to manage the battlefield. But mainly just casting the spells I have and paying attention to what stacks and how.

But it's not just melees, ranged enemies will autofocus your lower AC backline.

 

[Desiderius]

But it's not just melees, ranged enemies will autofocus your lower AC backline.

Not that often. And they tend to be more vulnerable to spells that target Fortitude and the like so can be neutralized. In Wrath there's a character with a Swift one round Charm that you can use to target ranged enemies then everyone close targets them instead of you. Kind of silly.

 

[Haplo]

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by sthe party.

What’s stopping you from buffing the other characters too?

Yeah, my melee toons don't get hit much. Kind of have to do that on Unfair. I also like to play classes that can rez in case things go south. Also use tactical summons and diffcult terrain to manage the battlefield. But mainly just casting the spells I have and paying attention to what stacks and how.

But it's not just melees, ranged enemies will autofocus your lower AC backline.

True, particularly at Pitax, to a lesser degree earlier in Farnirass' dungeon. Linzi was constantly dieing on me there, until I've learned to be more careful and buff here more.

 

[Parabalus]

In essence, Mr. Oldmanpaco, what Desiderius is trying to say is that P:K is very similar to BG 1/2, in the sense that 3 classes are for character that you ought to solo with (or maybe 1 other char).

2 classes are for the people that know what they're doing. Or banking on a very good gimmick a la Jaheira Harm shenanigans.

And, generally, you ought to keep it to pure classes.




The only one that is a blatant disregard to that is Octavia, but she's easy to be explained if you jog that gray matter a bit.

But it has a similar issue to the BG games, where (later on) the game is easier solo, mostly because those other party members die easily and your PC is unhittable.

I always play with a party but some later areas are made easier by parking everyone else at the entrance.

You’re doing it wrong. Really wrong. The game is all about team design and working together tactically and strategically.

Does your entire party have unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by the party.

The AI in general is not smart enough to change target on the fly. Just position your party in such a way that put attention to your "tank" first. They even rarely try to attack your ranged party member. If your melee damage dealer is getting hit everytime then you kinda have shit positioning.

With full party the enemies should also die like several times faster unless you messed up somewhere and not hitting them.

In the case they do get hit by something, the game should more than provide enough tools to survive, especially in Pitax of all places where you are nearly on demigod level. KM has a reverse difficulty curve that the game actually becomes easier with time on fixed difficulty due to how strong your party is. If you feel it is easier to solo clear a dungeon because your team keep dying there is probably issue with your items, not using your spells to protect the party, or you really2 botched up feat selection or something, or possibly you have really2 terrible positioning or you play this game like RTS where you just block all character and right click or something,

The extent to which the ranged AI focuses low AC chars is hilarious - they will go after characters 4 screens away behind locked doors.

Does your entire party havpe unhittable AC or something?

E.g. Pitax palace was much easier to clear with just one character, buffed up by sthe party.

What’s stopping you from buffing the other characters too?

Yeah, my melee toons don't get hit much. Kind of have to do that on Unfair. I also like to play classes that can rez in case things go south. Also use tactical summons and diffcult terrain to manage the battlefield. But mainly just casting the spells I have and paying attention to what stacks and how.

But it's not just melees, ranged enemies will autofocus your lower AC backline.

True, particularly at Pitax, to a lesser degree earlier in Farnirass' dungeon. Linzi was constantly dieing on me there, until I've learned to be more careful and buff here more.

It's not often a problem, but it was very noticeable at Pitax. Also some random encounters where you start surrounded.

 

[Desiderius]

Pitax of all places where you are nearly on demigod level.,

Pitax Palace has some tricky places. I remember getting owned by that rat assassin and the Gnome Twins has difficult positioning.

 

[Desiderius]

If you're getting hurt by ranged mobs try to use Charge more. In general opening fights with all your melee Charging is often easy mode.

 

[Parabalus]

Pitax of all places where you are nearly on demigod level.,

Pitax Palace has some tricky places. I remember getting owned by that rat assassin and the Gnome Twins has difficult positioning.

Well that's precisely my point - easier to send just one character, since you don't have to worry about those things then.

 

[Haplo]

Hey Desiderius how about you make a comprehensive guide to your 100 or so optimal builds (CotW included). You rip into @inEffect but I do not see you see putting the effort in. I want to know about all the derivatives!!!!

Also Haplo you could do more than post your one SS build. Yosharian you at least have a steam guide out there but I know you have more. And frankly your magus build looks like it sucks ass.

Thanks for the praise, oldmanpaco.

But Ackshuually, I've made 2 builds. This was my first:


It is actually more brutal then the SS in Real Time. Need to see to believe how much it riiips (from the beginning of the game... and it only gets better when you get your final weapon). Much worse in Turn Based, though. And obviously, less defenses, particularly early game (can main-tank just fine since mid-game or so).

 

[Desiderius]

Well that's precisely my point - easier to send just one character, since you don't have to worry about those things then.

I'm a better player now. I guess the game can be soloed or whatever, but more fun to play as designed while trying to minimize reloads.

Funny thing was that I ended up soloing Gnome Twins room with Tristian Scion4/Cleric5/MT9 or something with Crane Wing the hard way and Redeemer. Took a long time and kind of got lucky. Everyone else was trapped out in the hall.

 

[Parabalus]

Well that's precisely my point - easier to send just one character, since you don't have to worry about those things then.

I'm a better player now. I guess the game can be soloed or whatever, but more fun to play as designed while trying to minimize reloads.

I agree with you, that's what I also do, but it's important to acknowledge that doing so is much harder.

Similarly how soloing BG2 with a (f/)m is much easier than playing with a party.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The only time I feel I had issue with ranged attacker was in Pitax wall archer thing (literally the last encounter in PItax before boss), Codex quest where the Devil just pop up in your backline.

Pitax Palace has some tricky places. I remember getting owned by that rat assassin and the Gnome Twins has difficult positioning.

The Gnome Twins fuck everybody up yeah, but they are not really about AC issue? Just keep the more fragile one out of the way for a bit.

 

[Desiderius]

I agree with you, that's what I also do, but it's important to acknowledge that doing so is much harder.

Similarly how soloing BG2 with a (f/)m is much easier than playing with a party.

I'm saying that I don't think it is in P:K but people assume it is so never really try it.

 

[Desiderius]

You can take out wall archers before that fight.

 

[Parabalus]

I agree with you, that's what I also do, but it's important to acknowledge that doing so is much harder.

Similarly how soloing BG2 with a (f/)m is much easier than playing with a party.

I'm saying that I don't think it is in P:K but people assume it is so never really try it.

unny thing was that I ended up soloing Gnome Twins room

 

[Haplo]

You can take out wall archers before that fight.

That's true. Those specific archers are begging to cast some CC/nukes there before moving further.

 

[Desiderius]

Go fuck yourself. I was talking about before I knew what I was doing and my head was still messed up by bad InEffective advice. Trying to prevent newer players from going down that rabbit hole.

Even then wasn't trying to solo it the pathing is just weird in that one room. And obv Tristian was lucky to survive.