Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[J1M]

Retirement of characters isn't going to succeed in the market. People flock to the idea of persistentance. The way final fantasy allows for one character to progress different jobs is a better route.

People can group with a low level friend and still feel like they are making progress. It also makes certain activities more palatable if you know you won't have to do them again.

 

[FreeKaner]

One of the main reasons for the decline of WoW is that you would see a level 80 guy, and you wouldn't be sure that he beat Stratholme in his early 50s or whatever. The learning experience wasn't there for most people, and you couldn't trust them.
I quit the game late in WotLK and even doing heroics and pick up raids with my small group we had to check gear of the randoms, because we couldn't be sure they know how to play. Check the guy who wants to tank, he has very little defense. Stacks stamina instead. Has to be explained why this is bad. Nobody who played from level 1 to level 80 with a tank class would need this explained to them. Same with boss mechanics, and system interactions, etc. Boosts make it so there is no trust between two high level characters that both know how the game works. One might've just bought the character.

I don't expect people not knowing how to play the game will be a problem, this time around. Problem with original TBC and WOTLK was that game exploded in popularity and everyone wanted to see what it is like, so you had a lot of people who had absolutely no idea what they are doing playing the game. This time around people are generally competent because the game is already solved and everyone playing it knows what they are signing up for.

Back in Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK it was common to go to a BG for example and see people fumbling about in their questing items being absolutely useless, or join a dungeon and raid barely knowing how to play their class. This isn't an issue anymore, if anything people are way too obsessed about meta way to play the game.

Problem in classic is the mentality that people must see and treat it as a "recreation" of "memories of past" rather than just reviving an enjoyable MMO that got ruined by constant demands of people who neither had the time, nor even desire, to participate in most of the game except just end game instances, including even the leveling and gearing for the most part. Problem is the same people who ruined the game in the first place now also want stuff like level boosts that will negatively impact the game because they just want to get an easy gotten nostalgia hit, without even wanting to participate in the game. So the people playing it not because it is actually a decent mmo but because they happened to play it 10-15 years ago and associate it with their teenage or college years.

Nostalgia obsession is truly sign of a degenerate mind and a degenerate life.

 

[Norfleet]

Nostalgia is a normal behavior in an entropic universe. As entropy must always increase, things must necessarily go from bad to worse, and the past will necessarily always be better. A longing for this objectively superior past is normal.

However, entropy must always increase: You cannot resurrect the past, only create a decaying mockery of it. Thus all of these attempts to recreate the past fall flat, because you cannot truly recapture it, only create a hollow mockery of it. The Forces of Decline can never be turned back and all attempts to do so will ultimately only accelerate it.

In the end, there is always more, and it is always worse. Everything is shit.

 

[whydoibother]

Nostalgia is a normal behavior in an entropic universe. As entropy must always increase, things must necessarily go from bad to worse, and the past will necessarily always be better.

However, entropy must always increase: You cannot resurrect the past, only create a decaying mockery of it. Thus all of these attempts to recreate the past fall flat, because you cannot truly recapture it, only create a hollow mockery of it. The Forces of Decline can never be turned back and all attempts to do so will ultimately only accelerate it.

weird thing to write about a series that increased in mechanical sophistication and scope, and people want to go back to the basics, but okay

 

[Norfleet]

Has it really increased in mechanical sophistication and scope, though, or merely unnecessary complexity and the detritus of dead and abandoned systems?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

only thing that increased was homogenization and blandness

 

[whydoibother]

Has it really increased in mechanical sophistication and scope, though, or merely unnecessary complexity and the detritus of dead and abandoned systems?

Sophistication, as opposed to entropy. Its getting more complex, more variables, more things going on at the same time, more counters and bars filling in parallel. Not necessarily a more fun game, but absolutely no entropy in this series. You are repeating slogans written for elsewhere, even though they don't fit here.

 

[Norfleet]

Homogenization and blandness is the natural march of entropy. That is where the universe is ultimately headed, all things homogenously bland. All things pass, like a burrito past its due date. Everything is shit.

Sophistication, as opposed to entropy. Its getting more complex, more variables, more things going on at the same time, more counters and bars filling in parallel. Not necessarily a more fun game, but absolutely no entropy in this series. You are repeating slogans written for elsewhere, even though they don't fit here.

It's only sophistication if those mechanics actually lead to multiple interesting outcomes. If all of them are just ultimately leading to the same goal, it's merely unnecessary complication. Merely having more counters and bars for the sake of having more counters and bars is not sophistication, otherwise the best game would be nothing but a screen of counters and bars you can watch fill up.

And I would argue that counters and bars are some of the worst gameplay, as there's nothing particularly interactive about them.

 

[whydoibother]

Entropy is things moving so apart, that they can't interact, and can't form new sophistications and new systems. The opposite of what is happening to WoW as a series. You are continuing to repeat empty slogans, and continue not to make any sense. Quit trying to make World of Warcraft fit some Spenglerian tweet you read earlier today.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If the universe is infinite, then so is entropy. Following this, if time is also infinite, then every decline will eventually be met with an equally opposing incline.

 

[Norfleet]

You are continuing to repeat empty slogans, and continue not to make any sense. Quit trying to make World of Warcraft fit some Spenglerian tweet you read earlier today.

I don't really read Twitter, and I've been saying this same stuff for ages.

You seem to like all these bars and counters, but let me ask you a question: What happens when the counter hits zero or the bar fills? What do you do when it isn't? I'm imagining there is some kind of appropriate rote response, and at all other times, you simply wait for it to happen.

 

[whydoibother]

You are continuing to repeat empty slogans, and continue not to make any sense. Quit trying to make World of Warcraft fit some Spenglerian tweet you read earlier today.

I don't really read Twitter, and I've been saying this same stuff for ages.

You seem to like all these bars and counters, but let me ask you a question: What happens when the counter hits zero or the bar fills? What do you do when it isn't? I'm imagining there is some kind of appropriate rote response, and at all other times, you simply wait for it to happen.

You seem not to read threads you reply to either. Either that, or you just habitually strawman.
Entropy and sophistication are words, with meanings. You are using them wrong. I am correcting you. Be correct. Stop being wrong. Your tales of the Faustian bargain of the mercantile Blizzard causing the entropic decline from the Apollonian state of the Platonic ideal of World of Warcraft make no sense, and don't address the actual issues. In fact they specifically say the opposite of what the issue is: a 9001 year old game being artificially kept alive by adding more busy work and multiverses to it. TOO MUCH STUFF. Not too little, not entropy, but too much.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I don't agree that there arent many people who don't know how to play their class in classic. I did a ton of dungeon runs with shit tanks especially. Healers and dps are very easy to play, but tanks take a bit more effort, to know dungeons, pulls, strategies, etc. Got so tired I rolled a warrior alt just so I didn't have to put up with other tanks.

Another thing I noticed in classic, that is somewhat different from what I remember back in vanilla, is the overabundance of healers. Most groups that were stuck waiting was due to lack of tanks or even dps.

 

[Delterius]

where is the pre-patch, LEBOWSKI?

 

[Lyric Suite]

I don't agree that there arent many people who don't know how to play their class in classic. I did a ton of dungeon runs with shit tanks especially. Healers and dps are very easy to play, but tanks take a bit more effort, to know dungeons, pulls, strategies, etc. Got so tired I rolled a warrior alt just so I didn't have to put up with other tanks.

Another thing I noticed in classic, that is somewhat different from what I remember back in vanilla, is the overabundance of healers. Most groups that were stuck waiting was due to lack of tanks or even dps.

It's not tr00 vanilla experience if all the priests aren't shadow and all the warriors aren't fury and none wants to heal or tank, leaving the job to the scrub retri pallies or feral druids.

 

[Talby]

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

me (chad):

• roll undead warlock, cuz undead are cool and imps are badass
• no addons
• play sporadically: 2 hr one week, 10+ hr another week
• do whatever the fuck I want every time i log in: quest, kill shit, wsg, fish, make 2 tailoring items and log out, ...
• get invited to guild around level 10, do the dungeon thing in orgrimar
• spend an hour trying to jump on top of a house in crossroads
• duel everyone I run into
• is 14 too low for deadmines?
• get guildie group anyway, take forever to travel to westfall, die trying to get inside deadmine
• get inside deadmines
• never hit anything
• get some blue ring anyway
• keep playing like this
• unsub now and then when i get bored
• get LOTS of pussy
• 2 years after classic release I'm level 36

you (virgin)

• gnome mage
• leveling guide crazy taxi arrows questing addons, dps meters,
• "14 IS WAY TO LOW FOR DEADMINE YOU RE**&*&* NO0B SH*^ LIBc*CUK FUCK YOU NOOB "
• 18 hr per day
• level 60 one week after classic release
• "WHY I GET GANKED AT RAID ENTRACE?
• "LF 39 MORE ONYXIA GNOME MAGE AND HUMAN WARRIOR ONLY
• omg 6 weeks in and i only got one loot O
• wtf classic has LITERALLY nothing to do!?!!?!
• OMG BOTTERS/LEVEL BOOsTERS *crycrycry*
• *rant on reddit*
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*
  
• *rant on reddit*

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

TBC announcement made me want to compare tbc xpac to retail shadowlands

TBC has 16 dungeons, literally twice the number of shadowlands dungeons
TBC had 8 or 9 raids, BFA had 5 when it ended, wouldn't be surprised if shadowlands gets 3 or 4 since this xpac's a dud

wtf happened to blizzard? why's there like half the content in modern xpacs?

 

[Hobo Elf]

I don't agree that there arent many people who don't know how to play their class in classic. I did a ton of dungeon runs with shit tanks especially. Healers and dps are very easy to play, but tanks take a bit more effort, to know dungeons, pulls, strategies, etc. Got so tired I rolled a warrior alt just so I didn't have to put up with other tanks.

Another thing I noticed in classic, that is somewhat different from what I remember back in vanilla, is the overabundance of healers. Most groups that were stuck waiting was due to lack of tanks or even dps.

Tanking is just as brain dead easy as everything else in the game. Anyone can do it, there's no special skill required. If your tank is losing aggro consistently despite using demo shout, HS and sunder then it's probably because his gear isn't good enough to compete with the DPS, in which case the problem lies with the DPS classes and they should tone it down (as in use those baseline aggro reducing abilities).

 

[Delterius]

the problem lies with the DPS classes and they should tone it down (as in use those baseline aggro reducing abilities).

how dare you

 

[Ravielsk]

Tanking is just as brain dead easy as everything else in the game. Anyone can do it, there's no special skill required. If your tank is losing aggro consistently despite using demo shout, HS and sunder then it's probably because his gear isn't good enough to compete with the DPS, in which case the problem lies with the DPS classes and they should tone it down (as in use those baseline aggro reducing abilities).

Oh, boy how old you make me feel. This used to be common knowledge right up until Wotlk came out. I still remember how our guild leader used to stress the need for DPS to throttle their damage otherwise the tank will not be able to keep up no matter the gear. Heroics and raids were pretty much impossible to do without properly managing aggro on all sides of the party. Also running towards the tank not away from him if you pulled aggro was part of the basics.

Then came Wotlk and well... the game went to shit. Suddenly everyone assumed that the only one who should even consider aggro as a "thing" in the game is the tank and that treating dungeons as anything else but speed runs for emblems is for noobs. Seriously I would get so many mages decked out in epics bitching that my "barely 5 minutes after hitting 80" tank was not able to keep up with their spam and telling them to tone it down would only result in me getting kicked or them asking the shaman to tank. It only got worse in Cata and onward. Hell, even expecting them to run towards me when they pulled aggro was too much to ask, because apparently my taunts have no cooldowns and unlimited range. People would even seriously ask me why am I even queuing up as a tank when I dont have the gear for it, you know as if they would let me have any tanking gear when I was playing as a shitty DPS.

The game not filtering out people before they hit their first dungeon has seriously damaged the game. The sheer quantity of what I can only assume are mentally stunted 7 year olds shoot through the roof after Wotlk and it kept only getting worse.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Also running towards the tank not away from him if you pulled aggro was part of the basics.

Classic scenario.

 

[Avarize]

TBC announcement made me want to compare tbc xpac to retail shadowlands

TBC has 16 dungeons, literally twice the number of shadowlands dungeons
TBC had 8 or 9 raids, BFA had 5 when it ended, wouldn't be surprised if shadowlands gets 3 or 4 since this xpac's a dud

wtf happened to blizzard? why's there like half the content in modern xpacs?

TBC had several raids with only 1-3 bosses.

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

TBC announcement made me want to compare tbc xpac to retail shadowlands

TBC has 16 dungeons, literally twice the number of shadowlands dungeons
TBC had 8 or 9 raids, BFA had 5 when it ended, wouldn't be surprised if shadowlands gets 3 or 4 since this xpac's a dud

wtf happened to blizzard? why's there like half the content in modern xpacs?

TBC had several raids with only 1-3 bosses.

>2 small raids, 6 large raids (tbc)
vs
>4 large raids 1 small raid (bfa)

>16 dungeons (tbc)
vs
>8 dungeons (shadowland)

your point?

 

[Delterius]

i played through a wailing caverns as a mage, the other mage was 5 levels above me and casting blizzard with every pull and seemingly centered on every polymorphed enemy and i wanted to die

on the upside barrens chat is very nice