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Has anyone overcome their initial boredom of an RPG?

V_K

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Your first playthrough or your nth?
Third attempt. I've never actually finished the game. I typically run out of steam somewhere between Junkyard and Rail Crossing. Hence the frustration with the slow beginning - by the time things get interesting, I'm already so exhausted doing chores that I don't have the energy to continue.

But going from there would be 1 main quest too early, even without changing the general quest structure, for reasons I'll elaborate further below.
You don't have to go straight from there. Just put in some references for the future. Have some documents in the vault with some cryptic references to the faceless - or tchort, or godmen. Just something, anything hinting at a larger mystery that has to be put on the backburner while you repair the drill. Maybe also have some special dialogs in SGS and Junkyard mentioning your find, to emphasize its importance and give a sense of progression. Subtle things to give it some coherence.

It wasn't a dud, so much that you can't comprehend the 5W+1Hs of it other than the Whos and Wheres. What's important isn't the mcguffin itself, it's the things around it.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
 
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Black Angel

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Third attempt. I've never actually finished the game. I typically run out of steam somewhere between Junkyard and Rail Crossing. Hence the frustration with the slow beginning - by the time things get interesting, I'm already so exhausted doing chores that I don't have the energy to continue.
Sad. Seeing as how exploration and story hooks excites you more than trying different builds and see how they fare atm, I can see now the game's just not your cup of tea.

You don't have to go straight from there. Just put in some references for the future. Have some documents in the vault with some cryptic references to the faceless - or tchort, or godmen. Just something, anything hinting at a larger mystery that has to be put on the backburner while you repair the drill. Maybe also have some special dialogs in SGS and Junkyard mentioning your find, to emphasize its importance and give a sense of progression. Subtle things to give it some coherence.
Tchort and Godmen are literally mid-lategame tier content. Having it so early in the game would probably trigger some other random schmucks into thinking this is some average Chosen One vs. Ancient Evil bullshit, so yeah, can't please everyone.

Meanwhile, the Faceless was mentioned by Ol' Jonas. But unfortunately it seems even that didn't excite you enough.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
Well, I interpret you saying the mcguffin a dud as that it wasn't doing anything other than 'being there', or that if you managed to take it with you somehow it was taken away again. Since you were on third attempt and didn't even go past Rail Crossing, this is spoiler territory.

Still, exploration and narrative stuff were filling the game to brim past Rail Crossing. Starting past that you're greeted with a lot of conflicts and intrigues, I can't recommend you enough because despite being a full combat-oriented game, the game has more than enough to satisfy an average storyfag. Hopefully it clicks with you somehow, one day.
 

laclongquan

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Yes, both Fallout games have terrible MQ hooks. Difference is, they open up immediately or almost immediately, not force you into a linear and inescapable succession of boring formulaic fetch/kill tasks.
You have shit taste and shit understanding, is all. Or you are a rootless vagabond.

In Fallout 1 you have the job of exploration to find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the Vault.

Same deal with Fallout 2, the job of exploration to find find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the arroyo.

It strike squarely in the personality, into the soul of a person. It is urgent, but not so urgent you cant stop and save some strangers in distress. It is perfectly seated between two extreme of "very urgent" and "trivial job".

You can complain about the quest in the same way you can complain that you have to, say, carry your old aged mother (or wife, or children) to hospital to take insulin shots. You can shirk it once or twice, but each time you should feel terrible about it. You certainly can not, in good taste, complain about it.

The perfect mix between psychological design and desperation control, with mainquest as representative of all quests, is what seperate great gems like Fallout 1/2 from others of lesser quality.
 
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Calthaer

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Strap Yourselves In
You have to get back to basics to enjoy these games which is, more or less:

- Explore somewhere you haven't been before.
- Accumulate some xp or other reward.
- Run out of resources and head back to town to chill out for a while.

A great RPG will facilitate the cycle above.

So substitute "town" for "house" and you have Pokemon Go. I have never played that and I am clearly missing out.
 

V_K

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In Fallout 1 you have the job of exploration to find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the Vault.

Same deal with Fallout 2, the job of exploration to find find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the arroyo.
As a player that's the first time I'm hearing about either Vault 13 or Arroyo. As a player I have no reason to give jack shit about either of them. It would work for a novel, or even a JRPG where you get a fixed protagonist - but it doesn't work for a game with a self-insert PC. It doesn't matter much because plot really isn't the point - exploration is. But it doesn't make it good plotting.

Also I just can't with Codex hypocrisy. Dragonfall's plot is bashed for assuming the player should care for an NPC they've just met - but it's trendy to shit on Dragonfall so that's ok. But when Fallout's plot assumes the player should care for a whole community they've just learned about - in a cutscene, without even a possibility of exploring it - that's totally fine and justified. "Radiant" fetch quests are bashed in Skyrim because it's good tone to shit on Skyrim - but in Morrowind, Gothic or UR they suddenly become good design. Nope, folks, bad plotting an bad quest design don't magically become good if they occur in a game you like.
Since you were on third attempt and didn't even go past Rail Crossing, this is spoiler territory.
Spoiler away, I've read through the main quest stages on UR wiki anyway to get me some plot closure/find out if it ever picks up at all.
 
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MF

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Chris Avellone couldn't get through the first hour of Arcanum. Neither could I.

Chris didn't know how to use the world map and couldn't get through what should have been the first five minutes. The first hour takes place mostly in Shrouded Hills. Make sure you give the game a chance until you reach Tarant, which is arguably among the best cities in any RPG ever. If you don't like that, you can give up on it. It won't get better than that.
 

AdamReith

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
You have to get back to basics to enjoy these games which is, more or less:

- Explore somewhere you haven't been before.
- Accumulate some xp or other reward.
- Run out of resources and head back to town to chill out for a while.

A great RPG will facilitate the cycle above.

So substitute "town" for "house" and you have Pokemon Go. I have never played that and I am clearly missing out.

Yeah, every RPG is basically Pokemon Go but set in a virtual world. If you play Pokemon Go efficiently enough you save the world and get the girl.
 

Black Angel

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Since you were on third attempt and didn't even go past Rail Crossing, this is spoiler territory.
Spoiler away, I've read through the main quest stages on UR wiki anyway to get me some plot closure/find out if it ever picks up at all.
The aforementioned Mcguffin was carried by the missing person you're supposed to find, and the mcguffin is also a super-important stuff for the Faceless that they'd invade the Core City for it. I have to admit that as a side content you stumble along the way, Rail Crossing is the weak link, both figuratively as a game content, and literally that they're the weakest station in all of South Underrail. But even then you still get to encounter the Faceless right here, there are few ways to approach them but I'd put sneaking around them and approaching one of their non-hostile is one way to do it. After that you get to make a difficult decision where regarding a trading NPC's life, obviously you can save him using talk no jutsu.
Anyway, the plot only really picks up in the middle of Core City, but for an avid storyfag and exploration enthusiast such as you who dislikes doing shit for someone from the get go, the game is most probably going to drive you nuts with the amount of stuff the factions you involve yourself with tells you to do, since it's mandatory to get involved with one of the 3 factions of Core City. Strangely enough past Core City, the one faction left before endgame area can be kinda skipped but it requires you to shoot everything that moves, and then if you didn't know beforehand you might be stuck down there without the essential items :lol:

There are still couple of stuff I can confirm that can be stumbled upon by yourself without needing to ask any NPCs other than being told about it in a form of rumor, but I haven't tried playing in such a way that I can finish quests without being told to do it by quest NPCs, nor do I know if it's even possible in the first place.
 

V_K

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Oh, I see, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean the big MQ mcguffin, I meant the mcguffin of the GMS compound. That one turns a dud - you pass through that thrilling dungeon and get jack shit in return, plot-wise.
for an avid storyfag and exploration enthusiast such as you
I protest this designation. Exploration - yes; story - no, I don't like story-heavy games. I actually prefer something in the vein of Dungeon Master or Grimrock these days - no quests, just exploration and puzzles and roadblocks to provide mid-term goals. But if the game absolutely insists to have a linear main quest, then it better be good.
who dislikes doing shit for someone from the get go, the game is most probably going to drive you nuts with the amount of stuff the factions you involve yourself with tells you to do, since it's mandatory to get involved with one of the 3 factions of Core City
Well shit. Thanks for the heads-up. Is the expansion like this too or is there still hope?
 
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laclongquan

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In Fallout 1 you have the job of exploration to find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the Vault.

Same deal with Fallout 2, the job of exploration to find find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the arroyo.
As a player that's the first time I'm hearing about either Vault 13 or Arroyo. As a player I have no reason to give jack shit about either of them. ... It doesn't matter much because plot really isn't the point - exploration is. But it doesn't make it good plotting.

Saying first that you dont give a shit about details of plot. Then saying think they are not good plot...
..
.
You dont see the conflicts in that?
 

V_K

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In Fallout 1 you have the job of exploration to find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the Vault.

Same deal with Fallout 2, the job of exploration to find find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the arroyo.
As a player that's the first time I'm hearing about either Vault 13 or Arroyo. As a player I have no reason to give jack shit about either of them. ... It doesn't matter much because plot really isn't the point - exploration is. But it doesn't make it good plotting.

Saying first that you dont give a shit about details of plot. Then saying think they are not good plot...
..
.
You dont see the conflicts in that?
I was replying to a post asking if I also thought that Fallout has a bad plot hook. I confirmed that indeed I do. You don't have to care for something to assess its quality. Also, not caring that something is bad doesn't automatically make it good. For example, Morrowind has bad combat, but since nobody's playing it for combat, nobody cares - but if something like Dark Souls had Morrowind's combat it would have been a disaster. Same applies to plot.
 
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laclongquan

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In Fallout 1 you have the job of exploration to find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the Vault.

Same deal with Fallout 2, the job of exploration to find find an item and bring it back to save your community, you know? The ones around you while you grow up? All peeps you ever know up to the moment stepping out of the arroyo.
As a player that's the first time I'm hearing about either Vault 13 or Arroyo. As a player I have no reason to give jack shit about either of them. ... It doesn't matter much because plot really isn't the point - exploration is. But it doesn't make it good plotting.

Saying first that you dont give a shit about details of plot. Then saying think they are not good plot...
..
.
You dont see the conflicts in that?
I was replying to a post asking if I also thought that Fallout has a bad plot hook. I confirmed that indeed I do. You don't have to care for something to assess its quality. Also, not caring that something is bad doesn't automatically make it good. For example, Morrowind has bad combat, but since nobody's playing it for combat, nobody cares - but if something like Dark Souls had Morrowind's combat it would have been a disaster. Same applies to plot.
Bitch please~ YOur quote I leave behind so that when your taste get better in future, you will see your little gem here and bash your head yourself you were so stupid. Hang by your own leotard~
 

Black Angel

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Oh, I see, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean the big MQ mcguffin, I meant the mcguffin of the GMS compound. That one turns a dud - you pass through that thrilling dungeon and get jack shit in return, plot-wise.
Well, it makes sense. It's been a long while since the station was abandoned after the Omega's defeat at the hand of SGS, and we don't know how long since the new resident moved in. Something like that are bound to happen, and if you paid attention on the opposite side of the floor there's another hole leading to the caves which let those rathounds in.

Well shit. Thanks for the heads-up. Is the expansion like this too or is there still hope?
Surprisingly, I don't remember having to actually support a faction until the very end. To get to the DLC area you still need to get on the boat of a certain faction, but past just that one first quest to get an important item that lets you gain access to the rest of the abandoned ruins scattered about the DLC map, I don't think it's mandatory to do anything else for them, let alone with the other joinable faction.
 
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Lilura

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I protest this designation. Exploration - yes; story - no, I don't like story-heavy games. I actually prefer something in the vein of Dungeon Master or Grimrock these days - no quests, just exploration and puzzles and roadblocks to provide mid-term goals.

No, you don't. I've read a lot of your posts over the years: you're an adventure game enthusiast. As in, point & click adventures. You should change genre. RPGs aren't for you. Not real ones, anyway.
 

V_K

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I protest this designation. Exploration - yes; story - no, I don't like story-heavy games. I actually prefer something in the vein of Dungeon Master or Grimrock these days - no quests, just exploration and puzzles and roadblocks to provide mid-term goals.

No, you don't. I've read a lot of your posts over the years: you're an adventure game enthusiast. As in, point & click adventures. You should change genre. RPGs aren't for you. Not real ones, anyway.
Nope. Most adventures are too linear and story-heavy to my liking. I enjoy the more open-ended ones like Myst-likes or those with RPG elements, but they are few and far between.
Also, RPGs that provide different playstyles - that is, have prominent non-combat gameplay systems that do not boil down to clicking dialog options - are the only real RPGs out there. They are also few and far between, but good things tend to be.
 
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Self-Ejected

Lilura

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Nope. Most adventures are too linear and story-heavy to my liking. I enjoy the more open-ended ones like Myst-likes or those with RPG elements, but they are few and far between.

You've created multiple topics on adventure games (on an RPG site) and can't help but constantly reference them.

Your fave "RPGs" are adventure-game hybrids, too.

Also, RPGs that provide different playstyles - that is, have prominent non-combat gameplay systems that do not boil down to clicking dialog options - are the only real RPGs out there. They are also few and far between, but good things tend to be.

That is just an opinion without a single fact to back it up. Look, I can do it as well: "The only real RPGs out there are tactics RPGs such as Jagged Alliance 2. They are also few and far between, but good things tend to be".

Jagged Alliance 2 has exploration as well:

8HLJy7R.jpg
 

V_K

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Nope. Most adventures are too linear and story-heavy to my liking. I enjoy the more open-ended ones like Myst-likes or those with RPG elements, but they are few and far between.

You've created multiple topics on adventure games (on an RPG site) and can't help but constantly reference them.
So now you're stalking me too? I dunno whether to be flattered or scared.
Also, "multiple" is exactly four: on RPG/Adventure hybrids, on Defender of Boston (an obscure RPG/Adventure hybrid), on open-world Adventures, and on Myst-likes. I rest my case.
 

jackofshadows

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I'm a huge fan of Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape, Morrowind... Yet when I sit down to play another "classic" rpg like Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, ToEE, Arcanum... I'm bored out of my brain. I can't even stand watching playthroughs on youtube.

Has anyone overcome a similar aversion to an RPG and ended up enjoying it?
First it's kinda obvious that maybe fantasy settings are simply not for you? Try more different RPGs?

And second - yes, I have experienced 'overcoming' relatively recent with Witcher 1 and KotOR 1. I've dropped them several times, completed eventually and it was worth it satisfaction wise, I think. Similiar case was Wasteland 2 with the exception that I'm not sure it was worth finishing.
 

Drazhya

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Arcanum was dull and annoying up until shortly after Shrouded Hills, but gripped me after that and didn't let me go until the snoozefest of an ending zone. I don't remember what I liked about it though... well, I vaguely remember liking the tech skills and the dwarf companion.

Other than that, nothing comes to mind.
 

Curious_Tongue

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014
First it's kinda obvious that maybe fantasy settings are simply not for you? Try more different RPGs?

I have 2 fantasy games in my short list of favourites that you quoted.

Do you mean that I don't love fantasy enough to excite me to play a fantasy game regardless of whether its good or not?
 

cr0mag

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I wish there were more RPGs like JA2 :negative:
Gears tactics with a few tweaks could get alot of the way there. The presentation and combat system is top notch.

However, the recruit system and side quest systems are pretty bad, I'm holding out hope for DLC or a sequel which sorts it out
 

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