Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Xamenos]

Don't care about Web. Its too damn annoying. Pit and... Glitterdust - yeah, these are important. Still, I'd expect her to reach level 4 rather soon after recruiting her (party reaches level 5 in Prologue).
With Grease, Glitterdust and Pit, I guess she could help me conquer the entire game, were we stuck at these spell levels for some reason.

Web was just an example. Extrapolate on every single spell level for most of the game and you get why Octavia is not as good at a pure wizard's job for most of the game.

 

[Haplo]

Don't care about Web. Its too damn annoying. Pit and... Glitterdust - yeah, these are important. Still, I'd expect her to reach level 4 rather soon after recruiting her (party reaches level 5 in Prologue).
With Grease, Glitterdust and Pit, I guess she could help me conquer the entire game, were we stuck at these spell levels for some reason.

Web was just an example. Extrapolate on every single spell level for most of the game and you get why Octavia is not as good at a pure wizard's job for most of the game.

Thing is, the next spell level I'm looking forward to as much as level 2 is spell level 7 and Legendary Proportions. Not missing much by reaching other spells 1 level later. Chains of Light are very nice... but usually Divine casters can substitute the effect just fine with VineTrap - 3 levels sooner. In fact, I enjoy a much higher damage output troughout the game then "pure" wizard. When it comes to dealing damage, with a lower level spell, she can often outdamage casters with acces to higher levels spells.

 

[Xamenos]

In fact, I enjoy a much higher damage output troughout the game then "pure" wizard. When it comes to dealing damage, with a lower level spell, she can often outdamage casters with acces to higher levels spells.

We're going in circles. Octavia undeniably deals more damage than a pure wizard. Also undeniably, a pure wizard is better than Octavia at doing all other wizard things. Whether you value those things or not is a different discussion entirely.

 

[Desiderius]

Sword Saint Vivi guy. Whatareyougonnado.

 

[Haplo]

In fact, I enjoy a much higher damage output troughout the game then "pure" wizard. When it comes to dealing damage, with a lower level spell, she can often outdamage casters with acces to higher levels spells.

We're going in circles. Octavia undeniably deals more damage than a pure wizard. Also undeniably, a pure wizard is better than Octavia at doing all other wizard things. Whether you value those things or not is a different discussion entirely.

Now a pure wizard might be better at "other wizard things", but the difference is really negligable, to the point its barely there. If item creation feats were in the game/played a role, there might have been a niche where a "pure wizard" was better. Alas.

 

[Xamenos]

but the difference is really negligable

You think the difference is negligible only because you don't value what a wizard brings to the table, other than pure, raw damage. That's an unbridgeable difference in our perspectives.

 

[Desiderius]

In Wrath pure is significantly better. In CotW it’s more interesting.

 

[Xamenos]

In Wrath pure is significantly better.

How so? I thought they hadn't added any more spells and the like. Is it just everything being resistant to fire making nuking less viable?

 

[Desiderius]

No, Mythics back up Feats that were weak in P:K so you miss the Bonus Feats (much) more. Unless you want to be a Snowball man like Shad you'll struggle to penetrate SR without them. Mythic Focus isn't quite as good but it still doubles up Focus and Greater and then you can copy all those Feats to another School once you've built them up.

 

[Shadenuat]

Octavia undeniably deals more damage than a pure wizard

I have no info on damage/game as evoker20 which was my first wiz pl, because mod didn't exist back then, so no science approved data, but as AT you burn your feats on pointblanks, while as pure you can burn them on DC and elemental DC spells, or second Magic School, metamagic etc. every time you oneup AT in level, as thassilonian with semihigh int you get 4 extra high level spells to burn or slot empowered versions of spells to burn, 5 if you take bonded object instead of familiar. so it goes something like: at casts this, you get fireball, and burn through staglord etc; at gets fireball, you get 4 controlled fireballs; at gets sneak on rays, you can afford to slot extended vitals & get extra ray; at stuck at 5, you're already helicopting enemies with Sirocco inside Varn tomb with spell level 6, etc.
there will be a jump once AT gets surprise spells where you begin to aquire damage rapidly at final chapters of the game, but how big gap will be? idk.

I thought they hadn't added any more spells and the like

mythic spellbooks completely change how you think about building your casters.

Is it just everything being resistant to fire making nuking less viable?

specifically Fire I think might end up a very reliable way of CC+killing everything.

In Wrath pure is significantly better. In CotW it’s more interesting.

you can decide yourself when go AT.
I think it's good to take 2 wizard feats first. there is a somewhat quick jump in end of C2: balor 9, after balor 10, quick run into laboratory I think 11? +4th mythic. that's when you break chains and MC casters begin to do work.
what you can do is begin hoarding sneaks as you close to mythic spells which do not require anti-elemental mythic feat to work (like angel, demon, and trickster spells).

 

[Desiderius]

I have yet to take Mythic turn off resistance thing. Seems like trap. Usually easier to work around strengths of foes rather than try to blunt them so you can do the same thing every time.

 

[Yosharian]

The thing with this whole debate is, they could easily have made Octavia Wizard 2 and then players would have the choice of whether to make her an AT or not

 

[Nano]

The thing with this whole debate is, they could easily have made Octavia Wizard 2 and then players would have the choice of whether to make her an AT or not

Disagree. Her being a rogue fits with her background of always trying to run away from slavers.

They should've just made another mage, because just one isn't enough anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

I know that's what y'all are still crying about. If they did that her cantrip ploinks would do even less damage, the initial DPS of MMOtards would have been cut in half, and the negative reviews would have gone up by another 10%.

How did your minds become so encrusted that you aren't able to handle that one small design challenge?

 

[Desiderius]

The thing with this whole debate is, they could easily have made Octavia Wizard 2 and then players would have the choice of whether to make her an AT or not

Disagree. Her being a rogue fits with her background of always trying to run away from slavers.

They should've just made another mage, because just one isn't enough anyway.

Linzi* is your mage BGtards. They had to do it that way so they could make the reduced resting idiot-proof.

* - the real mage is Jewb of course, but that takes awhile to figure out.

 

[Shadenuat]

I have yet to take Mythic turn off resistance thing. Seems like trap. Usually easier to work around strengths of foes rather than try to blunt them so you can do the same thing every time.

It's just very build/item/spell specific. I wanted to try it with negative but it was bugged, but you can also make Stormbolts great again etc.

 

[The_Mask]

They should've just made another mage, because just one isn't enough anyway.

Yes, of course. Mages need to be like 10, but when we put 1 monk in the game, it has to shoot arrows, because using those 2 arms God gave you to smack things with the backhand of justice seems like a sin.

Next thing Owlcat will put in a monk that will just bite. Like a Dhampir. Or the/a second coming of Morte.

 

[The_Mask]

Edited to reflect the actual stream, not the channel.
If this ever gets removed, we just watched

"Cooking Stream with Owlcats: Maslenitsa!"

 

[Shadenuat]

owlcat women continue using their studio streams as a personal onlyfans project?

 

[The_Mask]

owlcat women continue using their studio streams as a personal onlyfans project?

Bro... at least they *are* women.

Spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

Guess they're banking on there being lots of thirsty Westeners out there with money to burn. Many who would love nothing more than to settle down with naice gamer babushka.

Can't say they're wrong. Bidan's getting a stiffie talking about putting pregnant women in fighter jets and miserable western NPC wiimens cancel whoever stop clapping first.

 

[Shadenuat]

i also made pancakes today but nobody gave me any money

 

[The_Mask]

i also made pancakes today but nobody gave me any money

Put that shit on camera. Add a smile, and get ready for the sweet dolla bills to roll in. :p

 

[Desiderius]

Finally figured out Occultist. Very similar to WarPriest but has a good bit more play to it and any INT class is good for the skillz.

Each Implement you learn (usually start out with two and get another at level two, but this archetype only starts with one) gives you your choice (out of 1-5 options) of a spell for each level, progression is the usual hybrid 1-6. Each implement corresponds to a magic school. There are four different ways to combine schools to get some advanced abilities later - Abjuration and Transformation combine to unlock Trappings of the the Warrior.

You get an amount of Focus that increases by Occultist level that you then invest in your implements. You can reset this amount after each rest but the default is that it stays the same and you just add additional amounts. This does two things:

(1) Boosts a passive ability that comes with each implement. You can see she has six points in Transformation because you can boost a Physical Stat +2 for each three. Enhancement unfortunately. She has 4 points in Abjuration as that gives you +1 Resistance bonus per two points invested

(2) Those points can then be spent on various Focus Powers that come with each Implement. Transformation gives you a Magus-style one minute per focus point Weapon Enhancement with all the options (including Cruel, Vicious, and Ghost Touch) and Abjuration gives you stacking Armor Enhancement including a Spell Trigger thing that fires off a Touch spell on hit. Other options are Haste, Fly, Resist Energy, Enlarge/Reduce, etc...

You can spend an additional point to make those abilities Swift, and there are also Swift abilities like Mind Barrier (comes automatically with Abjuration, doesn't burn a Power pick) and Heroic Splendor (comes with Battle Host). Host also gets Spiritual Ally which is very handy. That 14+ on her HP is Mind Barrier.

I've turned off everything but the timers, let me know if you like these pics more.

 

[Desiderius]

This is the Investigator. Alchemist Spells. Best skill money there is (this Archetype gets INT to Trickery/Perception/UMD so can focus exclusively on STR/INT. Studied Combat gives +1/+1 every other level. You can spike Sneaks/2 per level once on a Studied mob but then you lose all bonuses. Had intended to fight Wild Shaped via spells but CotW two-weapon fighting is too good. One Feat and your offhand gets iteratives just like main hand.

Enough AC and extra AB from Mutagen and Studied Combat to act as an assassin without necessarily needing flanking.

Investigator talents give you Sicken no save hitting a Studied target, free d6 (later d8, 2d8 at 20) added to skill checks (later attacks and saves), various other roguish things.