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Let's talk about Lacrymas' homebrew fantasy setting where paladins are eunuchs

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
What do you think of arcane magic in the warhammer universe and pnp systems lacrymas ?
I'd say it's fine because they embrace the potential for overwhelming power. I read the Rise of Nagash recently and everyone knows arcane magic is freakishly overpowered and wants more of it. Nagash wanted to take over the world the moment he saw the black magics of the dark elves and nobody could stop his advance outside of new technologies he wasn't prepared for. This is what all arcane magic settings will eventually lead to, it requires just 1 psycho. Magic in this setting being inherently dark and coming from the plane of Chaos is just a reflection of arcane magic in general. People (only Storyfag actually) accuse me of being a pessimist to the extreme about this, i.e. that mages WILL *inevitably* become tyrants regardless of anything, but I don't and have never believed in the inherent goodness of people, I've seen enough random and pointless cruelty, so I'm not naive enough to not expect at least someone to be a psycho. Maybe (I'm actually sure) most people don't have desires to torture or subjugate their fellow men, but it only takes 1 when magic is involved. That is the last nail in the coffin for me regarding arcane magic, it only takes 1 bad egg regardless of how much control the society exerts or tries to exert.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
You see, the problem is that we're not just regular consoomers of Lacrymas' setting. He made the mistake of sharing his "designer notes" with us, and these were full of stupid.

Why wouldn't we comment on his design process, if he brought it up?
I can't really disagree because this is the Codex, but I do find that petty in a topic that suggest is about the setting and its quirks (and not necessarily the person making it). But that's probably my naivety speaking.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Aren't settings like Dark Sun cool as fuck though?
They are, but that doesn't mean I want to create more of these. I think there are enough settings out there with arcane magic, most of them expecting too much suspension of disbelief, so I don't feel the need to create another one. At least not yet, if I ever have an interesting idea of where to take arcane magic I'll do it.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Joined
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15,896
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Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
What do you think of arcane magic in the warhammer universe and pnp systems lacrymas ?
I'd say it's fine because they embrace the potential for overwhelming power. I read the Rise of Nagash recently and everyone knows arcane magic is freakishly overpowered and wants more of it. Nagash wanted to take over the world the moment he saw the black magics of the dark elves and nobody could stop his advance outside of new technologies he wasn't prepared for.

Ugh, don't remind me of that shit. Firearms. Zeppelins. In muh - 1650 IC. The good author ought to be left to the tender mercies of the Great Necromancer's scarab swarms. That series ain't fucking canon by virtue of being retarded beyond all comprehension. In reality the one thing the kings of other Nehekharan cities used to defeat Nagash was... warriors. Boots on the ground.

it only takes 1 bad egg regardless of how much control the society exerts or tries to exert.

This is completely untrue.
 
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Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
14,467
Location
Frostfell
accuse me of being a pessimist to the extreme about this, i.e. that mages WILL *inevitably* become tyrants regardless of anything,

Not when mages has a force that can compete with then. For eg, on GURPS technomancer, doesn't matter how powerful you are. A single .338 lapua magnum rifle can kill you a mile away. And on D&D, a chaotic/lawful evil lv 15 caster can't take out an army of casters with good alignment. The idea that a single caster can take the world is ludicrous even in a very high magical setting. Even On Netheril, if one archwizard becomes too tyrannical, you can always move to another archwizard floating town

Stygia would have taken the Conan world in a matter of few days if LAcrymas was right.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
Mages are controlled by other mages in many other setting without problems: Harry Potter, Warhammer Fantasy, Dragon Age, Dresden Files, Gothic etc. Magic users allow themselves to be controlled by others for simple reason: siding with other more powerful wizards will grant you benefits, opposing them might get you killed.

Arent Gothic mages clerics actually? Sure, the vibe screams arcane, but does it really matter, when everything around that is pretty much akin to DnD divine magic?
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,320
At first I thought this setting without arcane magic would be allright and maybe fun change of pace to play for a while just the reason why it was designed that way is increadible stupid.

Now after this thread I think the setting is just stupid.

Like your providing content and a world to play in for your players which is more than I can say for most of us here.

But my god I reserve the right to call things idiotic like only women who have lost a child can be barbarians or that a theocracy that tramples on personal freedoms by deciding who does and dosent get to have children is better than a mageocracy because at least their power comes from "external" sources and not "within" as you keep saying.

Except then you say there are no gods in this setting bascically making it that priests are just mages drawing upon and bending some divine energy to their will without regulators just like mages drawing upon arcane energy.

By the sound of it there a lot of "bad egg" priests that have control of the setting.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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Frostfell
Arent Gothic mages clerics actually? Sure, the vibe screams arcane, but does it really matter, when everything around that is pretty much akin to DnD divine magic?

Nope. They learn magic from a divine patron, but don't draw power from their divine patron. It is indicated when >
- Xardas casts army of darkness after betraying Beliar
- On G3, after you sided with an deity, you can't learn spells from other deities, but nothing prevents you from using spells already learned.
- Faithless creatures like Goblins casts spells in the game. And even golems can cast spells.

They are more akin to Conan wizards which learn magic mostly from "outsiders" or ancients.

But my god I reserve the right to call things idiotic like only women who have lost a child can be barbarians or that a theocracy that tramples on personal freedoms by deciding who does and dosent get to have children is better than a mageocracy because at least their power comes from "external" sources and not "within" as you keep saying.

Except then you say there are no gods in this setting bascically making it that priests are just mages drawing upon and bending some divine energy to their will without regulators just like mages drawing upon arcane energy.

By the sound of it there a lot of "bad egg" priests that have control of the setting.

Amazing. In nutshell "I don't like magicians who will inevitably turn everything into a magocracy, so I made divine casters exactly like the mages that I hate"
 

SoupNazi

Guest
But my god I reserve the right to call things idiotic like only women who have lost a child can be barbarians or that a theocracy that tramples on personal freedoms by deciding who does and dosent get to have children is better than a mageocracy because at least their power comes from "external" sources and not "within" as you keep saying.
OK, but if the DM running a session in that setting is not Lacrymas, and thus doesn't know the (admittedly a bit wacky) reasoning behind it, is that really a problem? Or if Lacrymas doesn't push the metagame reason of why he made the world the way he made it on you during a session?

Again, to me it's different compared to putting a black character in a medieval Bohemia, which is retarded no matter what. Even if you don't hear the reason for it (which would be retarded). But if the concept isn't completely retarded in itself, does it matter how it was concieved?
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,320
OK, but if the DM running a session in that setting is not Lacrymas, and thus doesn't know the (admittedly a bit wacky) reasoning behind it, is that really a problem? Or if Lacrymas doesn't push the metagame reason of why he made the world the way he made it on you during a session?

If it never got reveild in game sure. As for this thread though I've seen how this sausage was made and it has forever colored my opinions.

Well except for only women who have suffered the pain of losing a child can enter a sisterhood to become barbarians bits. That remains stupid even in a vacuum.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
At first I thought this setting without arcane magic would be allright and maybe fun change of pace to play for a while just the reason why it was designed that way is increadible stupid.

Now after this thread I think the setting is just stupid.

Like your providing content and a world to play in for your players which is more than I can say for most of us here.

But my god I reserve the right to call things idiotic like only women who have lost a child can be barbarians or that a theocracy that tramples on personal freedoms by deciding who does and dosent get to have children is better than a mageocracy because at least their power comes from "external" sources and not "within" as you keep saying.

Except then you say there are no gods in this setting bascically making it that priests are just mages drawing upon and bending some divine energy to their will without regulators just like mages drawing upon arcane energy.

By the sound of it there a lot of "bad egg" priests that have control of the setting.
There are regulators, they don't bend anything to their will because they still have to pray to get their spells for the day (if we are going with the Vancian system). They think that power comes from some divine source, along with the source of healing, but some priests (mostly adventurers) suspect this isn't true. Also, people get denied basic freedoms every day in our world, even in Europe and the USA, there's nothing surprising, novel, or unthinkable about that. Something which affects everyone equally would be the ban on the consumption of drugs. I should have the possibility and freedom to use drugs recreationally in a safe and controlled environment (at home), but I don't. You would say "but some people won't able to control themselves and it might become a problem". Well, that's the reasoning behind the regulation of babies too, that some people will be baby machines and the resources won't be able to keep up with that. If you want to reason yourself out of this, then here's your roleplaying opportunity. As for the women barbarians, I still haven't read a single argument against it. This society thinks the women have already performed their duty, i.e. having a baby, so forcing her to have more babies conflicts with their cultural and religious values. Barbarians mostly work as mercenaries, but are frequent adventurers as well.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I should have the possibility and freedom to use drugs recreationally in a safe and controlled environment (at home), but I don't. You would say "but some people won't able to control themselves and it might become a problem".
we have collectively decided as a society that drug addicts make society worse
you can go live in the congo and do all the drugs you want
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I should have the possibility and freedom to use drugs recreationally in a safe and controlled environment (at home), but I don't. You would say "but some people won't able to control themselves and it might become a problem".
we have collectively decided as a society that drug addicts make society worse
you can go live in the congo and do all the drugs you want
And these people have collectively decided that having more babies than is reasonable given the resources available also makes society worse, i.e. leads to scarcity and food/water shortage.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I should have the possibility and freedom to use drugs recreationally in a safe and controlled environment (at home), but I don't. You would say "but some people won't able to control themselves and it might become a problem".
we have collectively decided as a society that drug addicts make society worse
you can go live in the congo and do all the drugs you want
And these people have collectively decided that having more babies than is reasonable given the resources available also makes society worse, i.e. leads to scarcity and food/water shortage.
1960 called, it wants its population bomb propaganda back
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
it only takes 1 bad egg regardless of how much control the society exerts or tries to exert.

This is completely untrue.
If the setting is made in such a way that 1 bad egg isn't enough, it will be a group of bad eggs, or an army. A constant stream of bad eggs who will hog the narrative spotlight forever and ever.

Not truuuueeee

Settings where omnipotent magic users don't hog the spotlight are rare and a welcome breath of fresh air.
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,320
There are regulators, they don't bend anything to their will because they still have to pray to get their spells for the day (if we are going with the Vancian system). They think that power comes from some divine source, along with the source of healing, but some priests (mostly adventurers) suspect this isn't true. Also, people get denied basic freedoms every day in our world, even in Europe and the USA, there's nothing surprising, novel, or unthinkable about that. Something which affects everyone equally would be the ban on the consumption of drugs. I should have the possibility and freedom to use drugs recreationally in a safe and controlled environment (at home), but I don't. You would say "but some people won't able to control themselves and it might become a problem". Well, that's the reasoning behind the regulation of babies too, that some people will be baby machines and the resources won't be able to keep up with that. If you want to reason yourself out of this, then here's your roleplaying opportunity. As for the women barbarians, I still haven't read a single argument against it. This society thinks the women have already performed their duty, i.e. having a baby, so forcing her to have more babies conflicts with their cultural and religious values. Barbarians mostly work as mercenaries, but are frequent adventurers as well.

So there are now gods/regulating force? And the being they pray to is a okay with granting them divine access to powers to individuals who castrate those who dare falk in love instead of just kicking them out of the order? Sounds like your settings divine regulator is pretty sick and could use some external regulation too.

So long as every pair or parents has only one child thats a net loss for the population. Or are the priests so stupid in this setting they cant do math. Also for real world examples you don't need anything more than a tax penalty or financial incentive to get most people to go along with it world rather than some church pannel decding if you get to or not.

As for women barbarians apologies if I was mistaken but did you not say somewhere in this thread only women, specifically those who lost a child, can be barbarians? Because that is really stupid and needs no argument to prove it.

But if you want arguments your telling me fathers that have lost a child cannot feel the same pain as a mother?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
But if you want arguments your telling me fathers that have lost a child cannot feel the same pain as a mother
Allow me to bring up the relevant part because I take especial offense to his barbarians:
Barbarians are only women who have lost a child because people in this culture think this is the only way to constantly feel the perpetual abstract anger needed for Raging.
 

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