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Battle for Esturia - Old-School CRPG

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
My personal philosophy for enjoying a class is that all skills are interesting and worth considering, even if only for a specific build. Keep that in mind when you read on, so you can take my suggestions with a grain of salt if your philosophy doesn't match mine.

I'll just do a list of my thoughts overall for each class's skills:
ELEMENTALIST
- Clay Golem: I'm looking forward to trying the new one out. It was the last skill I invested in, mainly because I'd already maxed what I wanted :D. My problems before were that it was super weak compared to my PCs. If I only had a 4 person party that might not have been a problem... just the increased action economy probably would have made it a serious consideration for investment. But you (correctly!) gave us a minimum 6 man party by the mid game, so action economy wasn't that big a concern. It needs some kind of oomph.
- Stone Skin: I didn't bother with this because I never, ever, for any reason, wanted my mages in close combat, and I generally had ways to keep them out of it. IMO making it damage enemies doesn't fix the underlying problem, since I still won't see a use for it... why bother with whatever damage output I get from shock when I can just Cone of Cold everything nearby into oblivion? One option would be to place some melee-mage friendly items into the game, so that melee mages become a consideration.
- Damage spells were fine. I would suggest slightly increasing the cast range of Fireball every other power level, and having its blast radius grow every other level, rather then every level. I'd also suggest that Lightning Bolt have an increased distance every other level. Cone of Cold is fine, just the increased chance of freeze and damage is enough to keep it competitive the entire game.

HOPLITE
- Shield Wall: I had no use for this, ever. It might have been cool if you could ever have more than 2 Hoplites total in the game (I chose to make Valbrand an Elementalist so...).
- Shield Bash and Shield Mastery are great. I loved that Branton was practically untouchable in melee once he got Shield Mastery 3, and then he'd counter for massive damage. Great thematic fit for a shield-line warrior who's built around enduring damage and countering.
- Throw Shield is a fun toy. I didn't feel pressured to grab it on level, but I used it occasionally and I had enough points to max it by end game.
- Impale and Pierce are meh. If Branton had EP available he was using it for Throw Shield. Not sure what to do with these.

RANGER
- Sniper Shot is fucking awesome. I loved being able to 360 noscope from literally across the map.
- I never used Poison Arrow, Wounding Shot or Piercing Shot. The first two because I already have Sniper Shot and nothing lasts long enough for poison to make a difference, and the last because I already had two elementalists and had AoE damage well in hand. These could easily be replaced/reworked.
- Improved Aim and Killer Sense are perfect passives for Hana, they fit her great.

PRIEST
- Really well done. I wanted each of his skills, I was always low-key stressed that I couldn't max them all. Great job here.

BARBARIAN
- Brawler was a fun passive but difficult to activate since it doesn't count diagonal adjacency. Maybe have its activation range increase once at power level 3?
- Relentless was fine I guess. Very forgettable. Generally if Helga went below 50% I didn't care if she did more damage, I wanted her topped off immediately.
- Battle Cry is fantastic. Requires thought and very powerful if used correctly.
- I never bothered with Rampage. If I was killing a mob with Helga the rest were going to die within 1-2 rounds no matter what, extra damage meant nothing.
- Charge: lots of fun to use. Like using Helga as a wolfgirl lightning bolt!

I never got the Necromancer so I can't comment on those skills unfortunately.

One thing that hurt the melee classes in general was that you almost never wanted to spend your level up points on Mind, but their EP costs scaled exactly the same as the mages'. Further compounded by not having a passive EP recovery skill. As a point of comparison, by end game Valbrand had 321 max EP and could spam spells to his heart's content, while Helga had 90 EP and could cast three times, total, without resting or using an Energy Potion. I ended up in situations where I could see a use for one of the melee skills but didn't want to push the button because I wanted to save it for when I really really really needed it. I don't know what route you take, but something needs to be tweaked if you want to see active melee skills be more impactful. One thing that might be interesting is to give each of the melees a skill that gives them a method of regnerating EP. For instance, maybe Branton has a skill that gives him EP every time he's attacked in melee, Hana has a skill that gives her EP every time she crits, and Helga has a skill that gives her EP every time she kills an enemy. Something along those lines.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
Kalarion, as usual your feedback is pure gold! I really appreciate the depth you've gone into here. I will definitely make Brawler count adjacent enemies and I will probably replace relentless and rampage with something else. I like the idea of spell range increasing will each level. I also think EP regenerating skills are a good idea, maybe a good replacement for for some of the weaker Barbarian and Hoplite skills. Thanks again for putting so much time into this!
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,548
One thing that hurt the melee classes in general was that you almost never wanted to spend your level up points on Mind, but their EP costs scaled exactly the same as the mages'. Further compounded by not having a passive EP recovery skill. As a point of comparison, by end game Valbrand had 321 max EP and could spam spells to his heart's content, while Helga had 90 EP and could cast three times, total, without resting or using an Energy Potion. I ended up in situations where I could see a use for one of the melee skills but didn't want to push the button because I wanted to save it for when I really really really needed it. I don't know what route you take, but something needs to be tweaked if you want to see active melee skills be more impactful. One thing that might be interesting is to give each of the melees a skill that gives them a method of regnerating EP. For instance, maybe Branton has a skill that gives him EP every time he's attacked in melee, Hana has a skill that gives her EP every time she crits, and Helga has a skill that gives her EP every time she kills an enemy. Something along those lines.
I'm not sure I agree with this part, I thought that only one Shield Wall or one Charge in the beginning of a fight for characters who are not mages and would then fight in melee with their stats and passives which make them good at that task, while mages could spam their damaging spells (and priest heal between fights) was sort of fine balance. I don't like when non-mages feel like mages, so I like that they currently don't.
 
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nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
One thing that hurt the melee classes in general was that you almost never wanted to spend your level up points on Mind, but their EP costs scaled exactly the same as the mages'. Further compounded by not having a passive EP recovery skill. As a point of comparison, by end game Valbrand had 321 max EP and could spam spells to his heart's content, while Helga had 90 EP and could cast three times, total, without resting or using an Energy Potion. I ended up in situations where I could see a use for one of the melee skills but didn't want to push the button because I wanted to save it for when I really really really needed it. I don't know what route you take, but something needs to be tweaked if you want to see active melee skills be more impactful. One thing that might be interesting is to give each of the melees a skill that gives them a method of regnerating EP. For instance, maybe Branton has a skill that gives him EP every time he's attacked in melee, Hana has a skill that gives her EP every time she crits, and Helga has a skill that gives her EP every time she kills an enemy. Something along those lines.
I'm not sure I agree with this part, I thought that only one Shield Wall or one Charge in the beginning of a fight for characters who are not mages and would then fight in melee with their stats and passives which make them good at that task, while mages could spam their damaging spells (and priest heal between fights) was sort of fine balance. I don't like when non-mages feel like mages, so I like that they currently don't.

That's an interesting alternative perspective. I still think it would be beneficial to add some form of EP regeneration for the non-mage classes, but it sounds like I should be careful to limit the amount of EP regen so that the fighters still feel distinct from the spellcasters.
 

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not sure I agree with this part, I thought that only one Shield Wall or one Charge in the beginning of a fight for characters who are not mages and would then fight in melee with their stats and passives which make them good at that task, while mages could spam their damaging spells (and priest heal between fights) was sort of fine balance. I don't like when non-mages feel like mages, so I like that they currently don't.

I agree, they shouldn't be casting nearly as much as mages. IMO if they can use one active skill per fight (or maybe every other fight) or so, that's good enough.
 

AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
1,871
Lot of great points raised by Kalarion and CryptRat, here's my take:

ELEMENTALIST
Agree pretty much with everything Kalarion wrote, but I do believe Stone Skin is ok. A skill that reduces damage seems more useful than one that deals damage back for glasscannons; ofc it'd be more interesting as a pick if mages were in danger of arrows and the like more often. As it is right now I never raised it because I saw no need for it.

HOPLITE
Agree with Kalarion, tho I didn't even bother using Throwing Shield.

RANGER
Same, but I must add that I used Piercing Arrow a lot, super useful.

PRIEST and BARBARIAN I'm 100% with him

NECROMANCER
Raise dead was quite useless. You never face enough enemies (was I ever outnumbered at all?) that you'd need an extra hand, and even maxed out it was rather weak. If we had AoOs and being locked in melee prevented any kind of ranged attack and spellcasting it could be useful to disable enemies, but even then there's never enough of them. Between the barbarian's charge and the ranger's arrows enemy rangers and spellcasters rarely passed the first round.
Poison Cloud is almost too OP. Does a lot of damage over a huge area; so much actually that the poison part becomes completely secondary. Perhaps if you reduced or negated the cloud's damage and instead increased the poison's it'd be more fitting.
Leech life. Quite useless, even maxed out it does almost nothing.
Mana regen is great.
If there was another then I probably never used it.

I do disagree with Kalarion with regards to how EP is treated, I actually liked the fact that I had to choose whether I wanted my barbarian to hit harder regularly or use her skills more often, and I ended up raising her int to 20 to be able to charge as much as I wanted.
What I did not like is being forced to cast always at max level. Why should I waste EP in a level 4 fireball to kill an enemy with 1 HP left?
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
Thanks for the additional input AdolfSatan. I particularly appreciate the feedback on the necromancer. I will definitely improve Drain Life and Raise Dead so that they are a bit more powerful. I will also reduce the poison cloud initial damage and raise the poison damage generally for all poison skills. It seems like there is agreement on Stone Skin being better than the new Shocking Touch skill I had considered adding, though neither are super useful mage passives. I may put some thought into a more useful passive skill for the mage.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
I wanted to give an update on the progress I've made based on the feedback I've gotten from everyone. I've made a ton of skill improvements described below:
  • Make summons more powerful (Clay Golem and Raise Dead)
  • Increase Fireball and Lightning range every other level
  • Have brawler count diagonal tiles at level 3
  • Increase poison damage for all poison skills
  • Increase bleeding damage
  • Make Drain Life more powerful
  • Reduce Poison Cloud area-of-effect damage
  • Replace Pierce Armor with passive skill which recovers EP whenever the Hoplite is attack (Calling this skill Second Wind, but I'm not sold on the name)
  • Added knock-back effect to Stone Skin and changed name to Wind Shield
  • Add EP regen to Barbarian Rampage
I haven't pushed a build with these changes yet because I want to perform extensive testing to ensure that I didn't introduce any bugs and make sure that the balance feels right. The final feature I intend to add is key-bindings. Once this is complete, I hope to have a final version on itch-io sometime between now and the middle of February. Thanks again for all the feedback!
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,409
I'm actually kinda digging the art style. Is it mostly combat-focused or are there any non-combat gameplay elements? Like puzzles, stealth or survival?
Nope, this is a streamlined combat-focused game with uninspired customization options and zero gameplay outside combat other than some little exploration and generic quests with minor dialogue choices and """C&C""". There are no attributes or spells affecting exploration, survival or dialogue (not even simple mapping spells, maps are found in chests instead like in Zelda games), the world lacks interactivity and sense of place, and the plot and companions are generic and boring. This is certainly not an Ultima or Magic Candle kind of game.

Despite all that, this is still a fairly enjoyable little game, with pleasant exploration, fun top-down turn-based combat, nice pacing, and lovely graphics and music, and the writing despite its blandness won't offend anyone since it's kept minimalist and straightforward (and this is a huge positive in my opinion). Closer to Phantasie than Ultima perhaps, but that's not a bad thing.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,409
So, I've just beaten it. The game's pretty unambitious and forgettable, but thanks to its fast and comfy moment to moment gameplay it can be a more enjoyable experience than many modern AA games that tend to be much slower and clunkier. It just works.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
So, I've just beaten it. The game's pretty unambitious and forgettable, but thanks to its fast and comfy moment to moment gameplay it can be a more enjoyable experience than many modern AA games that tend to be much slower and clunkier. It just works.

Thanks so much for playing my game! Calling it unambitious is probably a fair assessment. I didn't really make an attempt to innovate with this game. I basically just combined my favorite parts from all the games I loved when I was a kid. I do wish that I could have included more C&C in the game. The branching paths make it difficult to keep track of everything as a solo developer, but maybe I can do more in this regard for my next game.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
Thanks for noticing, LESS T_T. I am preparing for a steam release. The game is pretty much complete and you can download the latest version on itch.io. A friend is putting together a trailer for me and I am finishing the game manual. Once that is done, I plan to release to steam sometime this month.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
I just finished making the manual for the game which you can now download from the itch.io page if you're interested. Now the only thing left is the game trailer, which should be finished soon. I hope to announce a steam release in the next couple of weeks.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
I finally finished making the trailer for my game. I'm hoping to finally release to Steam on Friday (03/19/21), provided that the final steam review of my game build goes smoothly.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
After four years of part-time development as a solo dev, Battle for Esturia has finally been released on Steam! It's on sale for the first six days of the launch, but you can always pick it up for free on itch.io if you can't afford the $8.50 price tag.
I can't thank the Codex community enough for their fantastic feedback and support during the beta testing process. You guys are the best!
 
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Antigoon

Augur
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
366
You can't write a review on Steam without actually owning the game on there.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
You can't write a review on Steam without actually owning the game on there.
That's good to know. I'll still leave it up on itch.io though. I mostly just want people to be able to enjoy my game, whether they can afford it or not.
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
This game is just what the doctor ordered.

Only complaint so far is lack of keyboard controls.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
This game is just what the doctor ordered.

Only complaint so far is lack of keyboard controls.

I don't know if this helps, but you can select options from the radial menu during combat using the arrow keys.
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
This game is just what the doctor ordered.

Only complaint so far is lack of keyboard controls.

I don't know if this helps, but you can select options from the radial menu during combat using the arrow keys.


You have no idea how many times I pressed "M" thinking it would pull up the map. Just finished my 1st lap at 9.5 hours, would love to see more content in the future.
 

nlfortier

Esturia Games
Developer
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
128
This game is just what the doctor ordered.

Only complaint so far is lack of keyboard controls.

I don't know if this helps, but you can select options from the radial menu during combat using the arrow keys.


You have no idea how many times I pressed "M" thinking it would pull up the map. Just finished my 1st lap at 9.5 hours, would love to see more content in the future.

I have considered adding additional content. One thing I've considered is adding a massive roguelike-stlye randomly generated dungeon. Maybe allow the player to create an entire party and see how many levels deep they can go. I started a design and implemented a few dungeon generation algorithms, but never got much further than that.
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
This game is just what the doctor ordered.

Only complaint so far is lack of keyboard controls.

I don't know if this helps, but you can select options from the radial menu during combat using the arrow keys.


You have no idea how many times I pressed "M" thinking it would pull up the map. Just finished my 1st lap at 9.5 hours, would love to see more content in the future.

I have considered adding additional content. One thing I've considered is adding a massive roguelike-stlye randomly generated dungeon. Maybe allow the player to create an entire party and see how many levels deep they can go. I started a design and implemented a few dungeon generation algorithms, but never got much further than that.

DLC levels, roguelike mode, opening it up to modding... I hope it does good enough numbers to warrant something more.
 

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