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Obsidian General Discussion Thread

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Fallout's armor system is really lousy. Ultimately D&D's armor class Just Works.
There's no reason to use a system designed for simplicity in a cRPG. D&D's AC system is simple because it speeds up combat and you don't waste time doing math at the table.
It makes no distinction between someone wearing heavy armor and someone who is simply agile. Nearly all D&D editions include no rules for blocking or parrying. There are no rules for per-damage type AC(however, there is for DR). Damage reduction is simply flat, again, because nobody wants to crunch out percentages at the table. Making all DR flat unfairly punishes characters that attack faster rather than heavier, D&D designers are even aware of this which is why it's so rare in core materials.

cRPGs can do much better than a system designed for tabletop play.
 

Roguey

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Sawyerite
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There's no reason to use a system designed for simplicity in a cRPG.

Sawyer thought the same thing when he designed Pillars of Eternity's system and it blew up in his face. Meanwhile, Kingmaker. :)

People want to be able to understand/master systems and that's done by making them transparent and relatively easy-to-calculate.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
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14,323
There's no reason to use a system designed for simplicity in a cRPG.

Sawyer thought the same thing when he designed Pillars of Eternity's system and it blew up in his face. Meanwhile, Kingmaker. :)

People want to be able to understand/master systems and that's done by making them transparent and relatively easy-to-calculate.
How much meaningful complexity did his system really add, though?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
There's no reason to use a system designed for simplicity in a cRPG.

Sawyer thought the same thing when he designed Pillars of Eternity's system and it blew up in his face. Meanwhile, Kingmaker. :)

People want to be able to understand/master systems and that's done by making them transparent and relatively easy-to-calculate.
Sawyer was always determined in making the pillows ruleset a more refined version of D&D.

We don't need to hypothesize some alternate reality where a ruleset was created specifically for cRPGs rather than adapting a tabletop ruleset. SPECIAL was a system designed for cRPGs from the start. Grounded in GURPS to some degree, sure. Fallout's descendants(e.g., Underrail) have some of the best combat mechanics of any cRPG on the market.
 

Roguey

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SPECIAL was a system designed for cRPGs from the start.

Afraid you're mistaken, bucko. From Beneath a Starless Sky:

CHRIS TAYLOR

We had a meeting about what we wanted to do. Now, all game designers fall out of love with D&D at one point or another, and they make their own roleplaying game. I had done this in middle school. I had made an RPG on paper called Medieval—which is a terrible name, and I'm embarrassed to say it out loud after all these years—and it had all the stats that are in S.P.E.C.I.A.L., even though we weren't calling it S.P.E.C.I.A.L. at the time; it had all of S.P.E.C.I.A.L.'s core mechanics; it had a lot of those elements.

It wasn't complete. It wasn't an exact copy. But all the stats were there, and how it fundamentally worked was pretty solid. I had run games with this. I was very used to it. It was my system, so I had an answer for any question about it.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
SPECIAL was a system designed for cRPGs from the start.

Afraid you're mistaken, bucko. From Beneath a Starless Sky:

CHRIS TAYLOR

We had a meeting about what we wanted to do. Now, all game designers fall out of love with D&D at one point or another, and they make their own roleplaying game. I had done this in middle school. I had made an RPG on paper called Medieval—which is a terrible name, and I'm embarrassed to say it out loud after all these years—and it had all the stats that are in S.P.E.C.I.A.L., even though we weren't calling it S.P.E.C.I.A.L. at the time; it had all of S.P.E.C.I.A.L.'s core mechanics; it had a lot of those elements.

It wasn't complete. It wasn't an exact copy. But all the stats were there, and how it fundamentally worked was pretty solid. I had run games with this. I was very used to it. It was my system, so I had an answer for any question about it.
Most of the system was clearly unfinished and it was designed around Fallout as a cRPG. He even partially admits it here:
It wasn't complete. It wasn't an exact copy. But all the stats were there, and how it fundamentally worked was pretty solid. I had run games with this. I was very used to it. It was my system, so I had an answer for any question about it.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess his tabletop ruleset didn't have percentage damage reduction.
TIM CAIN

What's interesting is I bet you Fallout is the only RPG where the underlying system was made after the majority of the content. The reason it feels like it ties in so well [thematically] is, we literally looked at all our content and said, "What kind of queries do we need to make [in code] to make all this stuff work?"

We had things like, we some kind of agility and dexterity stat; we need to know if you're doing bonus damage; we need some kind of strength. So it kind of informed the system. It was interesting how that worked. I would never, ever want to make an RPG like that again, though.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut

Roguey

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He's told that story on twitter before. He's hit that part of senility where he's just going to repeat the same stories over and over again.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Digital GDC thing: https://showcase.gdconf.com/session...h-obsidian-entertainments-carrie-patel/879253

Ask Me Anything: Q&A with Obsidian Entertainment's Carrie Patel
Carrie Patel (Game Director, Obsidian Entertainment)

Date: Tuesday, March 16
Time: 12:25pm - 12:55pm
Track: Design
Format: Live Session

In this live GDC Showcase AMA session, Obsidian Entertainment game director and senior narrative designer Carrie Patel will be answering your questions about her experience working on ‘The Outer Worlds’ and ‘Pillars of Eternity’ including the ‘White March’ expansion, 'Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire’, and the first expansion for ‘The Outer Worlds’, ‘Peril on Gorgon’. As a game industry veteran, she can also provide insight into game direction and narrative design in general.

Show up, tune in, and ask away via the chat messaging feature during the AMA's scheduled broadcast.

Bryant Francis of Gamasutra will be joining this session as a moderator.

https://showcase.gdconf.com/speaker/patel-carrie/47703

She is currently directing an upcoming title at Obsidian.

Oh, there was a summary of this: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news..._Pillars_of_Eternity_and_The_Outer_Worlds.php

The differences between writing Pillars of Eternity and The Outer Worlds

Even at a studio like Obsidian Entertainment, which has a pretty narrow band of genres it operates in, game writers or designers might find themselves working on projects that require analogous-but-still-different narrative skills.

During an Ask-Me-Anything session at GDC Showcase (disclaimer: which the author of this piece moderated) narrative designer and game director Carrie Patel broke down how her writing process changed in shifting from work on the Pillars of Eternity series to The Outer Worlds.

Both games are RPGs, but the shift in design and player perspective had a lot more to do with changing writing styles than the switch in genre.

Patel broke down differences like this: at the top-level, Pillars of Eternity’s top-down camera (and occasional tableau scenes) afforded much more reliance on prose and third-person descriptions to carry the mood of a scene. In Pillars, Patel and her colleagues wrote not just dialogue, but brief character descriptions that captured their reactions, and what they might physically do in a small bubble around them.

When working on The Outer Worlds, Patel said she “really miss that ability to write descriptive prose and let that do some of the storytelling and heavy lifting, and handle the emotional beats of someone who is saying one thing but emoting another.”

The Outer Worlds relies on a first-person camera and (mostly) fully-voiced dialogue. That changed her descriptive tools from raw prose to gestures and facial animations created by Obsidian’s animation team. She said that inability to use contrasting descriptions, and instead rely on character animations, proved to be a challenge to adapt to, especially without the aid of an actor doing performance capture.

Another huge difference in writing the two games was what role the player fulfilled in the story. In The Pillars of Eternity, players take the role of a character known as “The Watcher,” who has unique in-game abilities separate from the class system, and the ability to perceive extra information as a consequence of the narrative.

outer_worlds.jpg


It’s a character structure built on a reliance of tabletop game formula, meant to accommodate the kind of role-playing, stat-driven character creation you’d find in Dungeons & Dragons or Pathfinder. The Watcher’s abilities are

“Trying to follow that tabletop formula, we have a variety of dispositions and a variety of skills. We want to make sure that however you're building yourself accordingly, you feel you can express that character,” Patel explained.

In The Outer Worlds however, the player character does not have any unique roles or abilities, except that they’re “an outsider” to the Halcyon system. “They don't actually have a role like "The Watcher" that gives them a really unique skillset except that they are an outsider to a world they can sort of see the absurdity of it, because they are not of it,” said Patel.

That led the team to lean on some familiar pop fiction characters to pin down what dialogue options would be appropriate for the player---in particular, Patel said that Firefly lead character Mal Reynolds (as played by Nathan Fillion) was a helpful template, trying to let players embody someone who could exist in a wide moral bandwidth. Patel said she and her colleagues were writing “someone who's not a saint, not a villain, someone with a morally grey spectrum who can embody either end or some range in between as the player wants to.”

Gamasutra and GDC are sibling organizations under Informa Tech

I'll wait for the video.
 

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
603
the player character does not have any unique roles or abilities
they do have slow-mo mutation/sideeffect included in narrative and she says things like this?
Yeah, it's like they don't even remember it. I think the only two times this is referenced in the game is when Phineas wakes you up and in a log of him trying to resuscitate you.
They really just tacked that in for the sake of being more like fallout.
 

Sannom

Augur
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
947
they do have slow-mo mutation/sideeffect included in narrative and she says things like this?
It has no bear on the plot or the universe though, it's only a tool for combat. Maybe if there was a sequel and more people have the same power and end up doing something truly special with it...
 

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
603
they do have slow-mo mutation/sideeffect included in narrative and she says things like this?
It has no bear on the plot or the universe though, it's only a tool for combat. Maybe if there was a sequel and more people have the same power and end up doing something truly special with it...
This is only because they choose to not do it, though. VATS had the excuse of being there because otherwise the game would literally be unplayable - but this is just an add on, reworked around trying to make it at least a bit fun. Would've been nice to see it actually reflected in the other parts of the game, too
 

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
they do have slow-mo mutation/sideeffect included in narrative and she says things like this?
It has no bear on the plot or the universe though, it's only a tool for combat. Maybe if there was a sequel and more people have the same power and end up doing something truly special with it...
fallout's vats has no bearing on plot or universe
outer worlds ttd is recognized in narrative and it is part of the fucking tutorial. They could have made it a chip, a drug or a fucking alien poop effecting colonists but they made it "special power for special protagonist".
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,817


Obsidian working on a project to be announced this E3/VGA

screencaps from someone's linkedin
1) lead narrative designer (march 2020 - present) - an upcoming, hush-hush project
2) cinematics director (may 2020 - present) - unannounced project, cinematic design + direction + presentation + performance direction
3) senior software engineer (november 2019 - present) - working on an unannounced project at Obsidian to help develop a prototype game proposal. Molding an existing code base to fit new requirements as well as writing new code to fit the needs of the project. The team is incredibly small and agile with frequent shifting of goals and priorities. I'm the primary engineering resource for the project's needs. These needs include console platform support, build systems, engine feature support, and new feature development.

Sawyer's new project uses existing codebase? He's making a FNV mod.
 

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