Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[PlanHex]

yea and I wouldn't call them an independent developer if they still did because they were reliant upon funding from a much larger publisher
which was the entire point of the discussion -- obsidian never made a single game without a large publisher

I'm starting to think you just enjoy being a contrarian for contrarianism's sake.

Maybe I just think applying the phrase "independent developer" to a developer that's reliant upon an external financial source is incorrect?

Maybe you're just young enough that you weren't around for the time when "independent developer" meant developers not owned by their publishers, as opposed to these days when it means 1-10 people making a game that is "published" on steam.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

yea and I wouldn't call them an independent developer if they still did because they were reliant upon funding from a much larger publisher
which was the entire point of the discussion -- obsidian never made a single game without a large publisher

I'm starting to think you just enjoy being a contrarian for contrarianism's sake.

Maybe I just think applying the phrase "independent developer" to a developer that's reliant upon an external financial source is incorrect?

Maybe you're just young enough that you weren't around for the time when "independent developer" meant developers not owned by their publishers, as opposed to these days when it means 1-10 people making a game that is "published" on steam.

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

 

[Latro]

I thought Dollarhyde was also working on Sawyer's project.

He was getting feedback from her, but last year he said he was the only one.

tfw you're the only writer on a project so you can use whatever bizarre logic you want to gate the flow of a conversation

what if i just use boolean variables to track game states and no integers ever

Holy shit, it’s gonna be terrible.

 

[Savecummer]

Holy shit, it’s gonna be terrible.

I dunno. As Roguey tells us, Soyer is a purveyour of tasteful rape in Obshitian arrpeegess. You never know what bizarre logic will lead to the widest stretching of Palleginas cloaca!

 

[PlanHex]

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

The original Half Life had 50+ developers according to moby games. Valve had trouble getting a publisher for that. I doubt you could find anyone not referring to them as independent developers back then. Ended up published by Sierra back when they were the big dick publisher around.

00's stuff like Double Fine switching publishers left and right. They got games published by Activision I think.
Don't see how that's different from Obsidian.

How about all the games that are published by Devolver Digital these days?
Would you say that Free Lives doesn't count as an independent games studio, because Genital Jousting was published by Devolver Digital?

Do your own googling for articles using the exact wording you want.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

The original Half Life had 50+ developers according to moby games. Valve had trouble getting a publisher for that. I doubt you could find anyone not referring to them as independent developers back then. Ended up published by Sierra back when they were the big dick publisher around.

00's stuff like Double Fine switching publishers left and right. They got games published by Activision I think.
Don't see how that's different from Obsidian.

How about all the games that are published by Devolver Digital these days?
Would you say that Free Lives doesn't count as an independent games studio, because Genital Jousting was published by Devolver Digital?

Do your own googling for articles using the exact wording you want.

you could have just said you can't

 

[PlanHex]

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

The original Half Life had 50+ developers according to moby games. Valve had trouble getting a publisher for that. I doubt you could find anyone not referring to them as independent developers back then. Ended up published by Sierra back when they were the big dick publisher around.

00's stuff like Double Fine switching publishers left and right. They got games published by Activision I think.
Don't see how that's different from Obsidian.

How about all the games that are published by Devolver Digital these days?
Would you say that Free Lives doesn't count as an independent games studio, because Genital Jousting was published by Devolver Digital?

Do your own googling for articles using the exact wording you want.

you could have just said you can't

Wanna joust?
https://www.google.com/search?q=dev...msung-ga-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

The original Half Life had 50+ developers according to moby games. Valve had trouble getting a publisher for that. I doubt you could find anyone not referring to them as independent developers back then. Ended up published by Sierra back when they were the big dick publisher around.

00's stuff like Double Fine switching publishers left and right. They got games published by Activision I think.
Don't see how that's different from Obsidian.

How about all the games that are published by Devolver Digital these days?
Would you say that Free Lives doesn't count as an independent games studio, because Genital Jousting was published by Devolver Digital?

Do your own googling for articles using the exact wording you want.

you could have just said you can't

Wanna joust?
https://www.google.com/search?q=dev...msung-ga-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

 

[PlanHex]

Give me examples of it being used in this context.

Obsidian had a fucking kickstarter where they developed most it first, then got publishers in afterwards. Have you heard of it? It's called Pillars Of Eternity, you moron. Seriously, how fucking dumb are you?
https://www.google.com/search?q=obs...pgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Obsidian had a fucking kickstarter where they developed most it first, then got publishers in afterwards. Have you heard of it? It's called Pillars Of Eternity, you moron. Seriously, how fucking dumb are you?

So if a developer makes one game out of a dozen using crowd-funding instead of sucking at a publisher's teat, they're now an independent studio?
There is no coherent definition here just "things I like are independent studios". Is Capcom an independent developer? CDProjekt? PlatinumGames? Bohemia Interactive? Crytek? Bungie?

If not, exactly what criteria are they missing other than "I don't like them"? What is the definition here? Exactly why does running a storefront disqualify a company from being considered an "independent developer" if sucking a publisher's dick doesn't?

 

[Roguey]

Holy shit, it’s gonna be terrible.

As I put it over two years ago

Semi-related: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39565-icewind-dale-2/page-4#entry534394

Like I wrote, most people don't like my stories or the way I write dialogue, which is why I try to stay out of that aspect of game design now.

I agree with Gromnir in that I'd like to see you take a chance, Sawyer. Maybe carry on a bit. Your friends will support you anyhow and your detractors already criticise your work. To fear such irrelevant labels as "cliche" or "hokie" is pointless. To fear failure is unworthy.

Have you ever seen Good Morning Vietnam? There's a guy in there who goes on to replace Robin Williams' character for a while. He's totally unfunny, but he insists on continuing his show even though everyone hates him. When he finally gets removed, he defiantly says to everyone around him, "In my heart, I know I am funny!"

Who wants to be that guy?

Congratulations, Sawyer, you are now well and truly That Guy.

 

[Latelistener]

Maybe he tries to balance them too much.

 

[KVVRR]

Obsidian had a fucking kickstarter where they developed most it first, then got publishers in afterwards. Have you heard of it? It's called Pillars Of Eternity, you moron. Seriously, how fucking dumb are you?

So if a developer makes one game out of a dozen using crowd-funding instead of sucking at a publisher's teat, they're now an independent studio?
There is no coherent definition here just "things I like are independent studios". Is Capcom an independent developer? CDProjekt? PlatinumGames? Bohemia Interactive? Crytek? Bungie?

If not, exactly what criteria are they missing other than "I don't like them"? What is the definition here? Exactly why does running a storefront disqualify a company from being considered an "independent developer" if sucking a publisher's dick doesn't?

googling "indie game developer meaning" comes up with

What Is Indie Game Development? Indie, which is short for “independent”, refers to a game made by one person or a small team, especially one without financial support from a publisher. This means that unlike the big-budget titles made by the top developers, indie games are made by people working on their own dime

Wikipedia says that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game

An independent video game or indie game is a video game typically created by individuals or smaller development teams without the financial and technical support of a large game publisher, in contrast to most "AAA" (triple-A) games. However, the "indie" term may apply to other scenarios where the development of the game has some measure of independence from a publisher even if a publisher helps fund and distribute a game, such as creative freedom.

This Eurogamer article talking about this very same topic has the writer reach out to a bunch of different devs to ask their definition of indie. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-16-what-is-indie
In most cases, people seem to agree that it's just short for independent - meaning that they didn't have to compromise with any other parent companies nor publishers to make the game. Say what you will about PoE, but it does meet this criteria quite well. I don't think there's anybody out there that would argue that game isn't indie, and considering that obsidian's quite slow when it comes to new games, I'd say that you could argue they were indie during that time.
I don't know where you get that he only thinks of obsidian as indie because he likes them - just where do you think you are? Have you seen the last 347 pages?

 

[purupuru]

Bizarre logic can be interesting, in one way or another.
I for one look forward to 100% unrestrained unabridged Sawyer autism with great excitement.
In fact I want the dialogues' logic to be as abstruse as possible so that deciphering them would be a minigame in itself.

 

[Bad Sector]

Epic Games, Valve, and Nintendo -- well known independent video game developers.

Having a large publisher is the inverse of being an independent developer though.
Obsidian's first game made was published by fucking LucasArts.

yea and I wouldn't call them an independent developer if they still did because they were reliant upon funding from a much larger publisher
which was the entire point of the discussion -- obsidian never made a single game without a large publisher

This is why in my original message i wrote "full independent word" and "instead of indie", you are using "independent" here as a synonym for "indie" - and yes, while this is the case that indie comes from independent, the explicit use of "independent" use often has the additional meaning about the developer not being a subsidiary or owned by a publisher. You may disagree with that sort of use (as would i since it can be confusing), but some people do use it like that and it does apply to Obsidian - and Epic Games and Valve too (not Nintendo though).

What you write is closer to "indie" though the detail is that an indie developer is a developer whose income comes (primarily) from their indie games, though the defining part are the indie games themselves: a game is indie if it was funded by the developer instead of a publisher or other 3rd party with influence over the game.

Under that definition pre-Zenimax id was an indie developer since they funded all of their own games even if they published them through others. Similarly with Valve.

Most people nowadays associate indies with small studios but that is a misconception spread by ignorant mainstream game journalists who first encountered indies around the late 2000s via word of mouth and as such only noticed the small studios that self-described as indies (from the same position of ignorance there was also the misconception that all indies produce innovative games - again that came to be because only the innovative games reached said journalists - and while nowadays everyone who has spent a couple of minutes on Steam can easily say that it isn't really the case, most still have the indie=small misconception).

 

[Flying Dutchman]

3) senior software engineer (november 2019 - present) - working on an unannounced project at Obsidian to help develop a prototype game proposal. Molding an existing code base to fit new requirements as well as writing new code to fit the needs of the project. The team is incredibly small and agile with frequent shifting of goals and priorities. I'm the primary engineering resource for the project's needs. These needs include console platform support, build systems, engine feature support, and new feature development.

Whoever this software engineer is, I probably wouldn't brag about the bolded bit.

Also, am genuinely concerned for fellow team members to be working with anyone who's pronoun identifies as "resource."

 

[Spectacle]

This thread should be merged into "General Microsoft Discussion"

Should call it "General Xbox Discussion" since it's all "Xbox game studios".

 

[PlanHex]

Obsidian had a fucking kickstarter where they developed most it first, then got publishers in afterwards. Have you heard of it? It's called Pillars Of Eternity, you moron. Seriously, how fucking dumb are you?

So if a developer makes one game out of a dozen using crowd-funding instead of sucking at a publisher's teat, they're now an independent studio?
There is no coherent definition here just "things I like are independent studios". Is Capcom an independent developer? CDProjekt? PlatinumGames? Bohemia Interactive? Crytek? Bungie?

If not, exactly what criteria are they missing other than "I don't like them"? What is the definition here? Exactly why does running a storefront disqualify a company from being considered an "independent developer" if sucking a publisher's dick doesn't?

I already gave the criteria at the post at the top of this thread. It is (or at least used to be) any developer not owned by their publisher. I'd also include developers that self-publish, but once they start publishing other developers' games they become a publisher themselves. Can get a bit iffy if they stay small though.

Anyway, I'm no longer drunk and now hungover so I'm out.

 

[Testownia]

At least Josh plays games, as opposed to Chris "I got killed by wolves in Arcanum" Avellone.

 

[Grotesque]

I don't get why they are making The Outer Worlds 2. The game was held exclusively hostage for a year, the reception was lukewarm at best and the game itself was disappointing.

It sold millions and they believe an improved sequel will sell more millions. They already laid the groundwork, might as well try.

Pillars 1 sold well because old times hype but Pillars 2 tanked, not because it was a bad game (Pillars 2 is better than 1) but because the low sales of PoE2 was an expression of how bad the first game was.

I bet the history will repeat itself with Outer Worlds 2 because it let down many people

 

[Testownia]

I don't get why they are making The Outer Worlds 2. The game was held exclusively hostage for a year, the reception was lukewarm at best and the game itself was disappointing.

It sold millions and they believe an improved sequel will sell more millions. They already laid the groundwork, might as well try.

Pillars 1 sold well because old times hype also but Pillars 2 tanked, not because it was a bad game (Pillars 2 is better than 1) but because the low sales of PoE2 was an expression of how bad the first game was.

I bet the history will repeat itself with Outer Worlds 2 because it let down many people

The sales of Poe II tanked because it had retarded marketing, which is also why the sales had such long legs. A game that sells bad doesn't receive ports for every console, and their developers don't get bought out by Microsoft.

I'm not even going to start listing the development hell Josh went through constantly wrangling with Fergus's retarded ideas.

 

[Grotesque]

The sales of Poe II tanked because it had retarded marketing

Yes, that's why PoE2 didn't had even half of PoE1 sales.
The Bad Boogey man erased the minds of all people that bought and enormously enjoyed PoE1 and they had to be brainwashed by the marketing machine from scratch

A game that sells bad doesn't receive ports for every console, .

Your reasoning is in the same retardation line as this, "This game is so good! Look how well it sold (in the first week)"

and their developers don't get bought out by Microsoft

Microsoft bought everything under the sun in their grand strategy to rival Sony.



Development hell!!
Poor Josh Sawyer... now living in Obsidian's basement, designing board games

 

[Testownia]

The sales of Poe II tanked because it had retarded marketing

Yes, that's why PoE2 didn't had even half of PoE1 sales.
The Bad Boogey man erased the minds of all people that bought and enormously enjoyed PoE1 and they had to be brainwashed by the marketing machine from scratch

A game that sells bad doesn't receive ports for every console, .

Your reasoning is in the same retardation line as this, "This game is so good! Look how well it sold (in the first week)"

and their developers don't get bought out by Microsoft

Microsoft bought everything under the sun in their grand strategy to rival Sony.



Development hell!!
Poor Josh Sawyer... now living in Obsidian's basement, designing board games

The total sales for PoE II are much higher than the first one. The rest isn't even worth commenting on.

IHaveHugeNick Stop being a salty ex-employee.

 

[Grotesque]

The total sales for PoE II are much higher than the first one

Jesus!
No wonder people in other threads are saying they're willing to donate money to Codex for you to get a dumbfuck tag.

Spoiler

 

[Butter]

# of Steam reviews doesn't tell us exactly how many copies a game sold, but it's useful for comparing the relative popularity of games. Here are some data points:

Divinity: Original Sin 2: 102,280
Pillars of Eternity: 11,602
Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire: 8,294
Tyranny: 7,234
Wasteland 2: 4,486
Shadowrun: Dragonfall: 4,196
Underrail: 3,206
The Age of Decadence: 2,503

This is more or less how I would have predicted these games to stack up in terms of sales numbers, with the exceptions of D:OS 2 and Tyranny (obviously D:OS 2 is the biggest seller of this list, but I can't imagine it sold 9x as many copies as PoE).