CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[AwesomeButton]

Of course, modern buzzwords often are. To what extent those practices are actually understood and actually followed is another matter. In most cases I've seen, managers tend to understand "agile" as "we don't need to be ready with exact requirements for the grunts to start coding -> we can show results sooner -> we have performed better as managers". You can see how this is headed for catastrophe as development process when misunderstood.

When the bill arrives, it turns out you need to spend that time you didn't spend in planning on doing refactoring and redesign.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm not saying "waterfall is key to quality games" but this switch is just one aspect of many hints that CDPR is going to produce lower and lower quality RPGs.

 

[lukaszek]

or it could mean that following backslash they changed management, that brought their practices onboard?

 

[cvv]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

I thought it's a BS corpospeak. Do these things actually mean anything meaningful?

 

[Wunderbar]

I'm not a developer, so i looked up Agile on wikipedia, and holy shit. "Multiple self-organizing teams", "early delivery", "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools", "Responding to change over following a plan".

Lmao. CDPR are truly fucked.

 

[lukaszek]

hate aside agile works

 

[typical user]

So instead of fixing organizational problems which lead to disastrous launch of CP2077, they said "fuck it, le'ts call it Agile".

 

[cvv]

So instead of fixing organizational problems which lead to disastrous launch of CP2077, they said "fuck it, le'ts call it Agile".

That's literally them fixing the organizational problems which lead to the disastrous launch of CP2077 tho.

The switchup from a single centralized moloch to several decentralized dev groups seems p. fundamental.

 

[The Last Blackguard]

Agile is pretty common practice in tech companies. Doing something like this in what is essentially a crisis for your company is pretty odd.

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

can't possibly get any worse at this point

Someday I will meet someone who believed this and was not proven wrong.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Speaking about getting worse, considering what path CDPR has chosen, I hope you people do have a several terrabytes of free space on your hdd/ssd. Because it's absolutely possible for gog to change course and add mandatory drm. Gotta download games fast.

 

[Justicar]

Speaking about getting worse, considering what path CDPR has chosen, I hope you people do have a several terrabytes of free space on your hdd/ssd. Because it's absolutely possible for gog to change course and add mandatory drm. Gotta download games fast.

Negro I have all my beloved games from the past in the boxes sitting on the shelf dont need no gog magog.

 

[Andnjord]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

I thought it's a BS corpospeak. Do these things actually mean anything meaningful?

It does actually. While not a perfect analogy, it's a bit similar to the german Auftragstaktik (Agile) vs allied Central Planning (Waterfall). I'm not a developper either, so I don't know how it's applied to the tech world exactly, but it works well with smaller, multi-tasking teams that can easily identify and solve problems efficiently on their own, as opposed to the modern AAA projects that have hundred of code-monkeys split accross several different studios who work in their own bubble with little to no sight of the overarching vision.

Problem is that Agile tends to be seen as the fashionable option, so bad project managers try to ram it into projects regardless of its applicability.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Negro I have all my beloved games from the past in the boxes sitting on the shelf dont need no gog magog.

Why you think that every discussion is about you? I am talking about people who failed to preserve their physical copies (fire, flood or even years of continues usage can be merciless) or people with broken cd/dvd drives.

 

[Gargaune]

I already tried that when the game first came out and it wouldn't let me map any of the numpad keys I tried. How hard would it be to just give us an option to remap one of the keys you'll be using almost all the time...

Bind it to a thumb mouse button if you have one. You might wanna keep a backup of the original .xml, though, since I've had patches refuse to deploy because of the modified file and simply reverting contents didn't fix it, had to download the full setup again.

I don't even know what possessed them to think they were capable of making a GTA: Online ripoff in a monumentally more complex gaming environment

I don't know why they'd want to... Well, that's a lie, I do know why, I just think it's unfortunate.

I imagine it's also the kind of hubris that made them think they could just wing it and make an open-world immersive sim with a branching narrative - when bigger and more experienced publishers struggle to this day to make the open-world formula mesh with other gameplay elements in an engaging way, and this after 20 years of experimentation.

The thing is they could have. Not an actual immersive sim, the logistics of an open-world Deus Ex are a nightmare beyond current development processes, but they could've managed a well-written Fallout 4 with pertinent DX elements, the assets are there, but the core game design can't make use of them in a compelling manner. In chasing that GTA dragon, they gave us a Witcher 3 with poorer narrative design and gameplay pacing. And I love TW3, but Cyberpunk isn't really delivering on that game's strengths and the minor mechanical evolutions aren't enough to make up for those losses.

a narrative that has more in common with GTA than anything Cyberpunk specific or cyberpunk in general. Why even bother buying up the IP if you're not going to do anything interesting with it?

This one I don't agree with. I haven't finished the game, but I've seen a steady supply of writing coming back to cyberpunk motifs along the main quest and side ones like Delamain and Peralez, with the technological impact on society, humanity and personal identity being a constant presence. I think the writing's generally competent, it's the narrative design that falls short.

Also, it's quite telling that they learned very little from developing Witcher 3. Itemization and character progression in that game were two of the main points of complaint, as was the unpolished combat - and yet these are the same exact problems that crop up in Cyberpunk. So not only is the game a buggy, unfinished mess, but the very foundation it is built upon is flawed.

Other have mentioned it before, but if 2077 had been delivered without any of the glaring bugs and technical issues it would still have been a massive disappointment in all aspects - from worldbuilding, to writing, to interactivity and immersion. About the only thing anyone can objectively praise 2077 is the art direction, but games with good art direction aren't anything novel nowadays - even EA and Ubisoft routinely managed to get those right.

And the reason I'm so disappointed is the wasted potential. After TW3, CDPR was large, experienced developer, with virtually limitless material and publicity resources and a massive cost advantage over its Western competition. It was a generational opportunity to provide videogaming incline and they blew it because they didn't accurately assess the limitations and requirements of their Witcher 3 formula and ultimately designed Cyberpunk GTA with a few RPG trappings strapped on. The likes of journalists and Reddit keep whining about bugs and the lack of "activities", but CDPR could've shipped it with all its "free DLC" features and rock-solid software engineering, and it would still be an exceptionally pretty but ultimately mediocre videogame experience.

It's not bad, it's middling, and I doubt anyone else in the industry will get the same golden opportunity they had any time soon. Damn shame.

 

[Gargaune]

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

Seeing as their latest patch is rumoured to dramatically reduce PC/RTX performance, they might wanna think again.

 

[Yosharian]

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

Seeing as their latest patch is rumoured to dramatically reduce PC/RTX performance, they might wanna think again.

Wow really?

 

[Tacgnol]

Nothing wrong with agile methodologies if used correctly. At the end of the day, if your project management sucks it's gonna suck whatever method you use.

 

[CyberWhale]

/fixed

 

[cvv]

It was a generational opportunity to provide videogaming incline and they blew it because they didn't accurately assess the limitations and requirements of their Witcher 3 formula and ultimately designed Cyberpunk GTA with a few RPG trappings strapped on.

For some reason they didn't understand what made Witcher so beloved - the unique, fresh take on fantasy.

You'd think for their next game they'd go with a unique, fresh take on science-fiction. But bafflingly they chose 1980s cyberpunk. A setting that's been done to death over the decades, the exact opposite of unique and fresh. That was their first mistake.

Even if in 2 years or so, with all the patches, expansions and overhaul mods, CP2077 turns into a good SF RPG, it'll never be as memorable, as beloved, as special as Witcher. In another decade "cyberpunk" will be still associated with Deus Ex and CP2077 will be remembered like we remember, say, Bioshock Infinite today - "Oh yeah, I vaguely remember this game. I think at some point there was a huge hype around it or some such."

 

[Justicar]

Wow really?

Nope.

 

[Peachcurl]

hate aside agile works

To qualify my "disagree" rating: It works only in the right circumstances. And even then, there's no certainty that it works better than the alternatives. It's also a great choice of spending alot of effort on implementing it in an organization without any considerable pay-off.

 

[lukaszek]

hate aside agile works

To qualify my "disagree" rating: It works only in the right circumstances. And even then, there's no certainty that it works better than the alternatives. It's also a great choice of spending alot of effort on implementing it in an organization without any considerable pay-off.

if they are to switch gears properly now we wont see new patches as for next few months there will be endless meetings on how to do agile.

Maybe they had issues with internal releases being done every 3 months, on release date nothing is working so next few weeks are spent on fixes. Agile is good as it shortens the loop and potential issues due to code merges are smaller, hence easier to manage.

Can be just a buzzword, can be needed, no data to know really. Since its poland we are speaking about, its useful to attract devs. Everyone wants to have it on their resume and talk about it during interviews.

 

[Danikas]

My msg to Cdpr higher ups.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...sibly-cancelled-cyberpunks-multiplayer-plans/

CD Projekt has cancelled its standalone AAA Cyberpunk multiplayer game
COMPANY IS INSTEAD “FOCUSING ON BRINGING ONLINE INTO ALL OF OUR FRANCHISES ONE DAY”

CD Projekt Red’s next triple-A title won’t be a multiplayer Cyberpunk game as previously planned, its parent company said on Tuesday.

As part of a wide-ranging CD Projekt strategy update, president and joint CEO Adam Kiciński said the company has “reconsidered” its plans for the game.

CD Projekt suggested in January 2020 that its Cyberpunk multiplayer project would be its own “triple-A” release rather than a Cyberpunk 2077 add-on, and last November Kiciński called it “a separate dedicated production, a big production”, adding: “we think about it as a standalone product”.

However, Kiciński said in a video released on Tuesday: “Previously we hinted that our next triple-A would be a multiplayer Cyberpunk game, but we have decided to reconsider this now.

“Given our new more systematic and agile approach, instead of primarily focusing on one big online experience or game, we are focusing on bringing online into all of our franchises one day.”

In a conference call held after the initial announcement, Kiciński was asked to confirm which games are currently in CD Projekt Red’s development pipeline.

He offered the following response regarding multiplayer titles: “Regarding online, we are changing our approach, so we want to have online in our future games, definitely, but step by step. So, we are working on specific features enhancing our single player [games], but we are not working on releasing the next game [as] a big online experience. So, we will be enhancing our single player games with online experiences.”

Returning to the subject later in the call, Kiciński said: “Actually, we started working on online components over two years ago and we just continue. The only change is that we continue to work on it not as a main production line but as a supportive production line together with our single player productions, but we believe that our ideas, once they will be revealed, will be very exciting for gamers as an extra experience in our world which fits our single player games.”

Kiciński also said the studio has some “very strong ideas and prototypes” for multiplayer experiences, but that it’s “too early to talk about monetisation” plans.

Spoiler

In the strategy update video released earlier on Tuesday, Kiciński said CD Projekt Red is building a technology framework that will enable it to introduce online elements in its future games, but that it will primarily remain focused on single player experiences.

“Let’s stress this here, CD Projekt Red makes single player story-driven AAA RPGs – that is not changing. What is changing is our long-term approach to online.

“And by this, we mean ensuring we are properly prepared to implement online elements in our games where they make sense. We don’t want to go overboard or lose our single player DNA.

“We want to take thoughtful steps to build robust online capabilities.”

He added: “We are building an online technology that can be seamlessly integrated into development of our future games. This technology will power online components we choose to introduce in our games”.

The first details of planned Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer modes may have been uncovered by dataminers in January.

References to Heists and Deathmatch multiplayer modes were spotted in the game’s executable file by DSOGaming.

Code related to Heists suggested players may be able to choose from various character classes in a co-op mission-based game mode.

The datamine also hinted that multiplayer could rely on P2P connections rather than dedicated servers, but given Cyberpunk’s online component is some way off releasing, even if the information were accurate at the time, it could be subject to change.


As part of Tuesday’s strategy update, CD Projekt’s SVP of business development, Michał Nowakowski, said the company’s future games will have “much shorter” marketing campaigns following various issues with how it communicated Cyberpunk 2077.

“We’ll wait until much closer to a game’s launch before we start showing things like trailers, demos, or going in-depth about mechanics, etc,” he said.

“And when campaigns do start, we aim to properly manage expectations across all platforms. This means focusing on communication of polished game footage, not concepts. We’ll also showcase footage of our games on all platforms they will be released on.”

CD Projekt also discussed its ongoing efforts to get Cyberpunk 2077 back on the PlayStation Store and the negative impact its removal may be having on sales across all platforms.

And it confirmed that The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt’s next-gen update will be released in the second half of 2021.