Gothic Gothic is fun

[Piotrovitz]

I will probably farm some shit ratings, but at least for me G1 and G2 were fun only back when they were released and they were something new (semi-open world, exploration, penal colony setting etc etc). For a high schooler raised on FO/BG/Morrowind that was hungry for more RPGs (or semi-RPGs) it was awesome as fuck.

Now I just cannot push myself to go back there - clunky combat, tank-like controls, no real character build options, lame-ass plot, rudimentary dialogues with no branching trees, and no replay value (unless you count early game factions quests). Game hasn't aged well, and anyone thinking different should take off his nostalgia glasses.

Out of curiosity - how many of you praising G1/G2 have played it when it came out, like me, and not just recently/couple of years ago during the dark ages, when everything back from the early 2000s was considered incline?

 

[octavius]

I played it some when it came out. But back then I had less time for gaming, and there was so many good games being published, that when I didn't like G1's control scheme I didn't give it much chance.
Liked it when played it properly recently. You get used to the UI and the 3PP doesn't bother me so much anymore (at least it doesn't induce the motion sickness that 1PP can do). And with a patch for higher resoultions I think it looked very good too.

 

[HoboForEternity]

I will probably farm some shit ratings, but at least for me G1 and G2 were fun only back when they were released and they were something new (semi-open world, exploration, penal colony setting etc etc). For a high schooler raised on FO/BG/Morrowind that was hungry for more RPGs (or semi-RPGs) it was awesome as fuck.

Now I just cannot push myself to go back there - clunky combat, tank-like controls, no real character build options, lame-ass plot, rudimentary dialogues with no branching trees, and no replay value (unless you count early game factions quests). Game hasn't aged well, and anyone thinking different should take off his nostalgia glasses.

Out of curiosity - how many of you praising G1/G2 have played it when it came out, like me, and not just recently/couple of years ago during the dark ages, when everything back from the early 2000s was considered incline?

i played gothic 1 in 2014 after i played the risen games.

at first, the control is like a barrier for me to enjoy it, for a time i stopped playing. after a few months, i tried it again, this time further, finally made it to the old camp levelled up a bit and finally got used to the KB controls. the control is always a valid criticism not because it is bad ( in fact, it was strangely intuitive ) after you discard the modern M+KB paradigm.

what drawed me in is the sense of progression and the design of the world. when i enter the forest, just across the river from the old camp's entrance, it just blew my mind they acheived this at 2001. the canopy of the forest obscuring the sunlight, animals truly behave like animals (scavenger actually screamed at me to stay off their territory, and they doesn't aggro when i actually back off. they sleep at night and animals attack each other. that kind of shit was only achieved decades later in STALKER or RDR 2) after that the sense of progression. it feels like my character is truly getting stronger not in abitrary, number based ways but like he gained actual skills and the training dialogue makes it even more meaningful and realistic. (no other games done this aside from PB, they actually teach your character how to swing a sword or do a spin move, or how to extract teeth from animals).

After that, classic hollywood love story.

 

[Zanzoken]

I will probably farm some shit ratings, but at least for me G1 and G2 were fun only back when they were released and they were something new (semi-open world, exploration, penal colony setting etc etc). For a high schooler raised on FO/BG/Morrowind that was hungry for more RPGs (or semi-RPGs) it was awesome as fuck.

Now I just cannot push myself to go back there - clunky combat, tank-like controls, no real character build options, lame-ass plot, rudimentary dialogues with no branching trees, and no replay value (unless you count early game factions quests). Game hasn't aged well, and anyone thinking different should take off his nostalgia glasses.

Out of curiosity - how many of you praising G1/G2 have played it when it came out, like me, and not just recently/couple of years ago during the dark ages, when everything back from the early 2000s was considered incline?

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but imo both Gothics play fine in current year. And I say that as someone who just recently played them for the first time.

They have their flaws of course, and like most games of 20+ years ago you have to put in some work to learn how to play. But the core gameplay is still great, primarily because as HoboForEternity said, the character progression and world design are without equal.

 

[Piotrovitz]

it feels like my character is truly getting stronger not in abitrary, number based ways but like he gained actual skills and the training dialogue makes it even more meaningful and realistic. (no other games done this aside from PB, they actually teach your character how to swing a sword or do a spin move, or how to extract teeth from animals).

IMO it's exactly the opposite - the char progression is terrible - for melees it all boils down to taking two levels of melee training, so you can swing fast and stunlock mobs, and then it's just pumping STR until the end of the game, so you can wield more and more powerful weapons, so you can kill shit faster. Oh, and taking the acrobatics training in new camp, so you can fly around like a human-torpedo and save dozen of hours on running around slowly. As for extracting teeth or skinning - did anyone actually invest in those?

This could have been mitigated easily by adding more steps of melee training, not just slow-as-fuck/normal/fast swings, and make them level-gated, so you would actually have something to aim/wait for. Also, itemization is non-existent - each new weapon offers nothing new, except +5/10 dmg compared to the one you have. Note that we're talking G1 here - G2 improved this a bit, where you couldn't become melee master after reaching lvl 3 - it takes some time to build up the skills. Itemization is also a bit better, but it's still mostly about finding new sword that deals X dmg more than the one you have.

Couple of years ago I've replayed G2 and it wasn't all that bad (exploration is still fun), despite the flaws I just bitched about. Tried to replay G1 afterwards, but couldn't make it.

I'm not shitting entirely on the franchise - as I've mentioned, when both games came out I had a blast playing them.

What I cannot understand is why they are still held in such high regard here, for reasons other than:

a) nostalgia
b) deluding oneself due to peer pressure (in case playing those recently, not when they came out)

 

[Zanzoken]

Your argument about character progression is nonsense. Taking both One-Handed perks in your first two level-ups does not make you an unstoppable badass at Level 3. It does give you access to the best attack animations, but you will do shit / nonexistent damage because weapons are STR-gated, and you also have very little health and armor which means anything stronger than a bottom-tier mob will one-shot you.

You seem to hold the opinion that a character system has to be mechanically complex in order to have good character progression, which is false. Gothic's character system is simple -- perhaps to a fault -- but it is effective. Your character is weak as piss in the beginning and most things you try to fight will kill you. As you gain experience your character slowly improves, you unlock better gear, and you eventually become able to kill things that you used to get BTFO by.

That's the essence of what good character progression is, and it's actually quite fun compared to the usual level-scaling bullshit in most modern RPGs.

 

[Nim]

What I cannot understand is why they are still held in such high regard here

Because there hasn't been anything better since.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Your argument about character progression is nonsense. Taking both One-Handed perks in your first two level-ups does not make you an unstoppable badass at Level 3. It does give you access to the best attack animations, but you will do shit / nonexistent damage because weapons are STR-gated, and you also have very little health and armor which means anything stronger than a bottom-tier mob will one-shot you.

Of course it's more reasonable and makes your start easier to first invest only in tier 1, then pump STR a bit, and few levels later get tier 2. Taking both perks at level 3 was just an example of how quickly you can reach highest tier of fighting skill in a combat-oriented game. You don't even have to search for a teacher, since it's the same guy in old camp, which you literally meet 15 minutes into the game - if this isn't broken/imbalanced, then I don't know what is.

You seem to hold the opinion that a character system has to be mechanically complex in order to have good character progression, which is false. Gothic's character system is simple -- perhaps to a fault -- but it is effective. Your character is weak as piss in the beginning and most things you try to fight will kill you. As you gain experience your character slowly improves, you unlock better gear, and you eventually become able to kill things that you used to get BTFO by.

With this way of thinking, char progression system in, say, Dink Smallwood is equally good - you start weak, kill mobs and gain xp, so you can deal more dmg and kill mobs quicker.

 

[Soph]

This topic got me to start playing Gothic 1 after my Elex run. I love it all.. the jank.. the ladder climbing taking minutes out of your precious life, the random main quest seemingly just there to take you to all the places on the map. Currently in the sleeper temple.. I think I'm almost finished. I was sort of afraid of this being a 100 hour grind through a dead and devoid game but it turned out to be kind of a pleasant and short lived experience.

At least now I can stand in front of Petrus at the end of my life and tell him to suck it, stating I played Gothic 1

 

[Mud']

I will do a second run of Gothic 2 because i have that itch for some reason, i will try out Returning 2.0 with the AB patch and play it on easy because my autism is not on the level to do min/max in Gothic.

Wish me luck

 

[Jrpgfan]

Of course, Gothic is better just look at their development teams

Morrowind virgins

Gothic Chads

In all seriousness Gothic is something completely different to Morrowind. Morrowind was made in the tradition of PNP dice-rolling RPG and it offers a huge depth. Gothic was made as a continuation of immersive games like Underworld and by that time modern action 3rd Person action games like Tomb Raider. Its simplicity is part of its core design and it allows the player to fully immerse themselves into a world that feels like it wasn't just made as a playground for the player but instead a living breathing world.

Look at Todd's smile, man. How can you not play a game made/advertised by him?

He's literally vault boy

 

[Murk]

I will do a second run of Gothic 2 because i have that itch for some reason, i will try out Returning 2.0 with the AB patch and play it on easy because my autism is not on the level to do min/max in Gothic.

Wish me luck

As much of an autist as I am, the hardmode of Returning/AB is undoable for me due to stability. On harder difficulty you can't save at any time, so that's just an outright no-go for me given how often it crashes -- even with various fixes. Often the crash is during a save or a reload, which is only really tolerable due to how the quicksave in it works (rotates 5 save slots).

Nevermind things like enemy stats and how little damage you do to enemies with thousands of HP.

 

[Vormulak]

My first Piranha game was ELEX, which was a train wreck but also highly enjoyable. Definitely a flawed gem.

Now I'm playing Gothic and while the same could be said for it, I am finding it to be much more gem than flaw. Not that it doesn't have issues, but I guess it's easier to have patience with a 20 year-old game.

I have been a huge Morrowind fag ever since I was a lad. In terms of storytelling and worldbuilding, it is god tier... and Gothic sucks at these. But in terms of core gameplay? It's not even close... Gothic shits all over Morrowind.

Anyway, I just switched allegiances from the Guards to the Mercs and am off to make contact with Xardas. Hoping to wrap things up before too much longer so I can move on to Gothic 2 and see what all the fuss is about there.

>morrowind storytelling and worldbuilding
>god tier
>gothic storytelling and worldbuilding sucks
Must be rough being that retarded.

 

[Alphons]

What would you say are the best mods for Gothic 2? I played Returning 2.0 and I liked a lot of the stuff they did with it (especially the added challenge. Played it on Legendary difficulty and had an absolute blast), but the story and lore they added was, well, absolutely retarded, and I'm on the lookout for something different this time around. Any recommendations?

All of these are available in English, German, Polish and Russian.

Velaya (German mod)- 40-50 hours. You play as that woman that was one of Gomez slaves. Story takes place right after Gothic 2. Khorinis is changed a bit (Valley and Jarkendar are blocked off). Some characters died, new ones arrived (including some old faces from Gothic 1 that weren't in 2). It has some new weapons. I liked it.

Golden Gate (Polish)- 15-20 hours. Nameless returns to Khorinis and finds that city was burned down by a new ruthless pirate captain. It takes place in a modified Jarkendar (it's currently being resettled by Khorinis refugees and settlers from Myrtana). It tries to be serious, but at times is unintenionally silly. Mod ends before it becomes annoying.

There're couple shorter mods (max 5 hours) available on Spine, but they're only in Polish. They were made by the guys that translated all other mods into Polish. Had a great time playing them all over a week.


There're 2 massive (200 hours+) German TCs that I haven't played: Return of Xeres and Odyssey.

Return of Xeres replaces entire Gothic II main quest and has 5 main guilds and 9 optional. Nameless died at the end of Gothic and gets raised as an undead at the beginning. I'm cautious to try it after playing Returning and reading some snippets on Gothicpedia

Spoiler

for example, Raven isn't the main antagonist in Jarkendar, instead he's one of prisoners in Beliar's Fortress (no idea, no info on Gothicpedia). He can be freed and act as your ally

Odyssey was only translated with Google translator (Polish translation is supposed to come out this year). You play as paladin recruit that survived an orc attack that wiped out his comrades. It takes place in Myrtana (along with Nordmar and Varant). Features full voice acting, new music, monsters, several towns, over 1000 NPCs and around 600 quests.

 

[Kainan]

it feels like my character is truly getting stronger not in abitrary, number based ways but like he gained actual skills and the training dialogue makes it even more meaningful and realistic. (no other games done this aside from PB, they actually teach your character how to swing a sword or do a spin move, or how to extract teeth from animals).

IMO it's exactly the opposite - the char progression is terrible - for melees it all boils down to taking two levels of melee training, so you can swing fast and stunlock mobs, and then it's just pumping STR until the end of the game, so you can wield more and more powerful weapons, so you can kill shit faster. Oh, and taking the acrobatics training in new camp, so you can fly around like a human-torpedo and save dozen of hours on running around slowly. As for extracting teeth or skinning - did anyone actually invest in those?

This could have been mitigated easily by adding more steps of melee training, not just slow-as-fuck/normal/fast swings, and make them level-gated, so you would actually have something to aim/wait for. Also, itemization is non-existent - each new weapon offers nothing new, except +5/10 dmg compared to the one you have. Note that we're talking G1 here - G2 improved this a bit, where you couldn't become melee master after reaching lvl 3 - it takes some time to build up the skills. Itemization is also a bit better, but it's still mostly about finding new sword that deals X dmg more than the one you have.

Couple of years ago I've replayed G2 and it wasn't all that bad (exploration is still fun), despite the flaws I just bitched about. Tried to replay G1 afterwards, but couldn't make it.

I'm not shitting entirely on the franchise - as I've mentioned, when both games came out I had a blast playing them.

What I cannot understand is why they are still held in such high regard here, for reasons other than:

a) nostalgia
b) deluding oneself due to peer pressure (in case playing those recently, not when they came out)

I dont understand your itemization complaint since Gothic does this the best? Of course there are worse and better swords. Better ones do more damage, what do you expect them to do. But they cost more and are rarer to find in exploration.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I dont understand your itemization complaint since Gothic does this the best? Of course there are worse and better swords. Better ones do more damage, what do you expect them to do. But they cost more and are rarer to find in exploration.

Sure, there are many weapons through the game, probably dozens of them, but the thing is, they are all the same and the only difference is usually +X dmg, comparing the one you're currently using. Excluding hand placed ones, it all boils down to hoarding gold, so you can afford higher tier sword that has +10 dmg more. Armors itemization is non existent - I think we can all agree on this.

Good solution would be:

1. More hand placed, hard to find weapons, which would give you a sense of accomplishment finding them. This would also encourage exploration of more dangerous areas.
2. Add some on-hit effects on regular weapons, that would create dilemmas one which on to use (i.e the one with bleeding effect or the standard one with higher dmg etc etc)

 

[Kainan]

Gothic does the first solution, better than most if not the best. And you can say it all boils down to hoarding gold and buying a better sword. But you still have to get that gold. And there are many ways to get it. And its not the only way. Can't you also forge swords? I never tried that. Or go to the Monastery and never even use a sword.
There are just so many options.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Disagree on the first one - how many hand placed unique weapons there are in G1/G2, that require exploration/finding some secret area/delving into dangerous zones?

Can't comment on crafting, because I played G2 long time ago, but I had a feeling that in order to make something useful you had to heavily invest skill points, which was a waste and it was better to just pump up STR to deal more dmg and wield better swords that you could buy.

As for getting gold - you're saying that the game provides you dozens of way of doing this, when in reality it's just killing mobs/opening chests/finding pouches etc, so the most basic cRPG stuff.

Or go to the Monastery and never even use a sword.
There are just so many options.

Yeah, so many options and builds - going melee with pure warrior or becoming a mage.

 

[Kainan]

Disagree on the first one - how many hand placed unique weapons there are in G1/G2, that require exploration/finding some secret area/delving into dangerous zones?

Gothic is basically Hand Placement: The Game. I don't know the exact number of weapons but it's more than in most rpgs.

Can't comment on crafting, because I played G2 long time ago, but I had a feeling that in order to make something useful you had to heavily invest skill points, which was a waste and it was better to just pump up STR to deal more dmg and wield better swords that you could buy.

Can't comment on crafting either, i will try it the next time. But iirc Nameless Hero literaly makes a sword, he pounds it on that wheel thing which is just awesome. While in most rpgs you just get a shitty screen

As for getting gold - you're saying that the game provides you dozens of way of doing this, when in reality it's just killing mobs/opening chests/finding pouches etc, so the most basic cRPG stuff.

These most basic rpg stuff are the most important stuff that most rpgs fail.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

 

[Sykar]

 

[Marat]

What would you say are the best mods for Gothic 2? I played Returning 2.0 and I liked a lot of the stuff they did with it (especially the added challenge. Played it on Legendary difficulty and had an absolute blast), but the story and lore they added was, well, absolutely retarded, and I'm on the lookout for something different this time around. Any recommendations?

All of these are available in English, German, Polish and Russian.

Velaya (German mod)- 40-50 hours. You play as that woman that was one of Gomez slaves. Story takes place right after Gothic 2. Khorinis is changed a bit (Valley and Jarkendar are blocked off). Some characters died, new ones arrived (including some old faces from Gothic 1 that weren't in 2). It has some new weapons. I liked it.

Golden Gate (Polish)- 15-20 hours. Nameless returns to Khorinis and finds that city was burned down by a new ruthless pirate captain. It takes place in a modified Jarkendar (it's currently being resettled by Khorinis refugees and settlers from Myrtana). It tries to be serious, but at times is unintenionally silly. Mod ends before it becomes annoying.

There're couple shorter mods (max 5 hours) available on Spine, but they're only in Polish. They were made by the guys that translated all other mods into Polish. Had a great time playing them all over a week.


There're 2 massive (200 hours+) German TCs that I haven't played: Return of Xeres and Odyssey.

Return of Xeres replaces entire Gothic II main quest and has 5 main guilds and 9 optional. Nameless died at the end of Gothic and gets raised as an undead at the beginning. I'm cautious to try it after playing Returning and reading some snippets on Gothicpedia

Spoiler

for example, Raven isn't the main antagonist in Jarkendar, instead he's one of prisoners in Beliar's Fortress (no idea, no info on Gothicpedia). He can be freed and act as your ally

Odyssey was only translated with Google translator (Polish translation is supposed to come out this year). You play as paladin recruit that survived an orc attack that wiped out his comrades. It takes place in Myrtana (along with Nordmar and Varant). Features full voice acting, new music, monsters, several towns, over 1000 NPCs and around 600 quests.

A few others worthy of mention: Piratenleben, Legend of Ahssun, Dirty Swamp (2.0!!!), Vergessen ist nicht vergangen, that one Russian mod the name of which I can't remember. There are also others if you're ready for a trip down the memory lane - them old Gothic mods were janky as all fuck. Naturally the fast approaching Chronicles of Myrtana and a little slower, but still fast History of Khorinis will likely do some dethroning once they're released.

 

[Murk]

 

[Sarathiour]

Gothic 1 I was really into and got probably 75-80% done with and my HDD took a shit. Tried to start over but didn't have it in me.

Okay, i now believe there is a curse of some sort, because mine died yesterday shortly after obtaining uriziel.