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D&D 5E Monk Class Discussion

Elex

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there are three kinds of martial characters

bow, sword and quarterstaff

spears, the superior weapon, are for NPCs ONLY
with polearm master feat the spear and other pole weapons are the best martial weapons in 5e.

BG3 really need one handed spears.
 

Elex

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whats wrong with ranger?
short version?
the internet rate classes based on combat effetiveness, the ranger is good is all about exploration/survival abilities.

a lot of the class is about "being strong at exploration" but it mean you don't even need to roll for it stuff like "you can't get lost". Even feature like favored enemy don't give any combat advantage, favored terrain require DM intevention "this campaign is set in the mountains take mountains" or similar things.
Also the ranger is Bonus action starved, a dual wield ranger suffer a lot from that.

The ranger is soo good at the survival part of the game that can make it irrilevant.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The ascetic is a universal archetype. Hurt, durr why call it ki then? Same reason we don’t say streygthe or dexteritie or whatever.

We all understand the referent.
it's literally based on kung fu monks who punch shit, the most obvious example being the tv series Kung Fu. It was specifically not and very different to western monks.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/q-a-with-gary-gygax.22566/page-112#post-1972709

He didn’t say shit about TV.

THIS is how conservatards managed to make a subculture out of Christianity of all things. No wonder your wives and children have turned against you and are out making fools of themselves in public with their second-hand SJWism.

God what a mess to clean up.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Looks at first pass that Larian has fixed at least two of those problems.
 

Poseidon00

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Every 5e class is the same. There is so little variation in potential power or features or playstyle that is there really any point in discussing it at all?
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
The ascetic is a universal archetype. Hurt, durr why call it ki then? Same reason we don’t say streygthe or dexteritie or whatever.

We all understand the referent.
it's literally based on kung fu monks who punch shit, the most obvious example being the tv series Kung Fu. It was specifically not and very different to western monks.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/q-a-with-gary-gygax.22566/page-112#post-1972709

He didn’t say shit about TV.

THIS is how conservatards managed to make a subculture out of Christianity of all things. No wonder your wives and children have turned against you and are out making fools of themselves in public with their second-hand SJWism.

God what a mess to clean up.
are you incapable of reading, too?
If you ever saw the TV series Kung Fu, that was rather the model I used for the monk PC as far as general interaction in the campaign
 

Pink Eye

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LETS GOOO! WE GOT OUR OWN THREAD! WOO! Alright, brahs. Name some good games were monks were at their best! I'll start:
>Jade Empire
>Never Winter Nights 2
>Pathfinder: Kingmaker
>Knights of the Chalice 2
 

Darth Canoli

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Well, the greatest problem of the monk in 3e is the creatures with high DR. Pathfinder fixed this problem. A lv 4 monk can punch a "ghost", a lv 16 monk can punch a iron golem

A lvl 16 monk can punch an iron golem but in the CRPG, you meet iron golems around level 8-10 so what do your monk do?
I know, he tries to tank but at that level, he's mostly useless.

Monks get a lot of interesting features but unfortunately, they get them way too late, a lvl 10 monk with lvl 20 features would be useful for sure but really, they're not that good.
Still, in pathfinder, they're better than in most D&D cRPG.
 

Pink Eye

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I swear it. If Monk gets implemented I'm going to get Baldur's Gate 3 and work hard to make monk builds. This thread is a blessing! Note to self, bookmark this thread so you don't forget!
 

Elex

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I swear it. If Monk gets implemented I'm going to get Baldur's Gate 3 and work hard to make monk builds. This thread is a blessing! Note to self, bookmark this thread so you don't forget!
All PHB class are confirmed. (Unless they start to cut stuff).

Some mod already allow to play monk.

but i don’t think there are many monk build to do.
 
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Thac0

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Martial class with a d8 as a hitdice, MAD (Multiple Ability Score Dependant) as fuck, rather low AC compared to true martials due to no shields, and naturally strained in the action economy. Also naturally bad ranged options since martial arts does not trigger on throwing weapons, so they just throw 1d4+3 instead of 1d6+3 or 1d8+3 as compared to fighters.
Stunning Strike is really good and Ki often gets overlooked. Missile Snaring is good. Evasion is good. But I don't think it brings enough to the table to make the monk a good class.
As a DM, the most player deaths in a class I had were easily monks. Melee Rogues before level 5 die quite often aswell, so that is not necessarily a metric of power, as rogues are very powerfull early game.

Overall I don't think Monks have enough good to outweigh their drawbacks. They could have a d10 as a hitdice and would be a lot better, and they still would be worse than fighters.
I think they are about the same as the Barbarian (on which I am not very high overall) among the worst martials in the game.

Quite fun to play however. Ki on short rest with stuff like step of the wind means you get to use special abilities quite often, usually even out of combat if the DM is a bit generous.
As a DM I let players get away with quite a lot of creative maneuvers out of combat if they want to burn a KI for it, because it at least consumes a ressource. As such I like monks on my table.
 
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Thac0

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there are three kinds of martial characters

bow, sword and quarterstaff

spears, the superior weapon, are for NPCs ONLY

Now now: Hand crossbows; Greatsswords, Rapiers are viable for top tier melee characters aswell. Greataxes are used to meme with crit fishing builds sometimes, not really good tho.
But yeah it is a damn shame how shafted the normal spear is.
 
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Thac0

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Greatsswords
not real
incorrect
Hand crossbows
aren't all crossbows used with hands
But yeah it is a damn shame how shafted the normal spear This.
their unspeakable power must be contained

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Weapons#content
I know I know, serious posting in response to a shitpost and all.
The 2d6 strength weapons (Maul and Greatsword) are very good and a reasonable alternative to longsword+shield.
Also DnD terminology is retarded, when the rulebook says Longsword it means the historical arming sword/ knights sword and when it says Great sword it means Longsword.
Rapier is the only 1d8 dex weapon, and it is amazing as such. Dex is stronger than Str in 5e.
http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/feat:crossbow-expert crossbow expert is worded a bit gay, but it allows you to make one extra attack with your bonus action whenever you shoot a small (1d6) crossbow. The one handed weapon attack that triggers the free crossbow attack can be another crossbow attack. So if you are a class with only one or two attacks per turn a small crossbow becomes better than a longbow with Crossbow expert. At 3 attacks and more you can then use a heavy crossbow. Crossbows are an underrated build, they are not only for clerics.
 

Elex

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Martial class with a d8 as a hitdice, MAD (Multiple Ability Score Dependant) as fuck, rather low AC compared to true martials due to no shields, and naturally strained in the action economy. Also naturally bad ranged options since martial arts does not trigger on throwing weapons, so they just throw 1d4+3 instead of 1d6+3 or 1d8+3 as compared to fighters.
Stunning Strike is really good and Ki often gets overlooked. Missile Snaring is good. Evasion is good. But I don't think it brings enough to the table to make the monk a good class.
As a DM, the most player deaths in a class I had were easily monks. Melee Rogues before level 5 die quite often aswell, so that is not necessarily a metric of power, as rogues are very powerfull early game.

Overall I don't think Monks have enough good to outweigh their drawbacks. They could have a d10 as a hitdice and would be a lot better, and they still would be worse than fighters.
I think they are about the same as the Barbarian (on which I am not very high overall) among the worst martials in the game.

Quite fun to play however. Ki on short rest with stuff like step of the wind means you get to use special abilities quite often, usually even out of combat if the DM is a bit generous.
As a DM I let players get away with quite a lot of creative maneuvers out of combat if they want to burn a KI for it, because it at least consumes a ressource. As such I like monks on my table.
Martial art work on monk weapons even ranged one.
  • You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Kensei is one of the best bow users in the game.
 
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Thac0

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Martial art work on monk weapons even ranged one.

You can only make melee unarmed strike with Martial Art, not very usefull for a ranged weapon user.

Kensei is one of the best bow users in the game.

Kensei does not get fighting style archery, they have to multiclass for it, making it one of the worst bow users in the game behind fighters and rangers.

Kensei is one of the stronger Monk subclasses but without a fighting style they do not make particularily good archers. Every optimised archery build is gonna abuse the interaction of Sharpshooter and Archery.
 

Tyranicon

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Monks are all about the thrill of beating giant monsters to a pulp with your bare hands. If you want to actually be hyper effective at combat or use weapons, just go pick a different class.

Like critfishing Champion Fighter, because that's boring as shit but effective.
 

Elex

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Martial art work on monk weapons even ranged one.

You can only make melee unarmed strike with Martial Art, not very usefull for a ranged weapon user.

Kensei is one of the best bow users in the game.

Kensei does not get fighting style archery, they have to multiclass for it, making it one of the worst bow users in the game behind fighters and rangers.

Kensei is one of the stronger Monk subclasses but without a fighting style they do not make particularily good archers. Every optimised archery build is gonna abuse the interaction of Sharpshooter and Archery.
No, is written in the quote “unarmed strike or monk weapon” is not unarmed exclusive, just read the rules.

also monk at level 5 get focused aim
When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for each of these ki points you spend, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
is from tasha book, can make a kensei with sharpshooter an accuracy monster.
 
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Thac0

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No, is written in the quote “unarmed strike or monk weapon” is not unarmed exclusive, just read the rules.

When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.

Not the trigger is exclusive, but the martial attack can't be with a monk weapon. Only unarmed melee. It has to be a melee unarmed attack. So you can shoot, run closer and hit the enemy with your fist through martial arts, but that removes most of the advantages of being a ranged fighter.


is from tasha book, can make a kensei with sharpshooter an accuracy monster.

Yeah the Optional Class Features from Tasha for the Monk are a massive buff to the class. I havn't tried them at my table yet, but I assume they make the monk a lot stronger.

Without them Kensei is a second rate archer behind Fighter, Ranger, Bard.
With them probably close to the fighter on power level.
 

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