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Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

Darth Canoli

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Because playing on difficulty levels that are suited to our ability and familiarity with the game is fun, and your way clearly isn't.

And your tolerance to grind for the economic diff grindiculty.

It's not just a question of ability, it's a question of having fun, for me, expert combat + beginner economic is the fun way to play battle brothers but i can see porky is the kind who wants to play on higher difficulty possible to brag about it rather than enjoying the hardships it induces.
 
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Well, I already played it through on lower difficulties, so just wanted to do it on highest as well. Alas, it is not to be.
 

Harthwain

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The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning.
I have seen experienced coaches wrecked by a string of unlucky rolls. Experienced teams can make rolls more manageable, but you can't do much when you roll critical failures at worst possible moments.

P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?
Not sure what you're asking here. Playing on non-expert economic difficulty makes it easier to recover after taking some losses, it doesn't change the supposedly broken RNG.
 
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P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?
Not sure what you're asking here. Playing on non-expert economic difficulty makes it easier to recover after taking some losses, it doesn't change the supposedly broken RNG.

Economic difficulty setting massively affects the difficulty of the entire game. When you are always low on money, you can't outfit your guys with good equipment, so they are more likely to take injuries/die, you can't recruit the best bros, you have to take on desperate contracts because otherwise people start deserting, etc.
 

Kaivokz

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Economic difficulty setting massively affects the difficulty of the entire game. When you are always low on money, you can't outfit your guys with good equipment, so they are more likely to take injuries/die, you can't recruit the best bros, you have to take on desperate contracts because otherwise people start deserting, etc.
Your two main complaints weren’t this, though.
They were:
(1) RNG went on pre-determined swings against you.
(2) You can’t avoid multiple ambushes on escort missions.

I have done runs on expert/expert, but it really does just become a hassle—it is still 100% possible to have a fully geared company, but to do so you need to play way more carefully on the strategy map and pick the most economical option all the time for the first 50 days or so. It just makes things slower without making the combat harder (and early on you should only really be buying cheap helmets for your first recruits—it costs nothing to get outfitted in full raiders gear, and you can save up for one or two nice chest or helm pieces).

Also use tavern rumors and have a notepad nearby to write them down on—if you hear about a famed item, you should make it a priority in your future plans. In my last run I heard about two famed items early on, one guarded by many necrosavants (I did not get that one early) and another just guarded by some raiders holding a 300 durability helm—snag some 210 footman armor from a bandit leader and you’ve got yourself a viable early game battle forged bro.

On a side note, earlier in this thread I posted almost the exact same story as you about the caravan—got ambushed by things repeatedly, including some alps—but my conclusion was, “Well I’m never taking escort missions at that point in my company’s career.” Not, “let’s try it again!”
 
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On a side note, earlier in this thread I posted almost the exact same story as you about the caravan—got ambushed by things repeatedly, including some alps—but my conclusion was, “Well I’m never taking escort missions at that point in my company’s career.” Not, “let’s try it again!”

I also said I am never taking escort missions again, except on Expert/Expert, you don't really have a choice, cause the money runs out, and the escort missions are the only ones available... That's the thing, the only realiably safe early enemy contract is that "bandit thugs stole my statuette" one. Even those can wreck your crew on Expert, but most times you can defeat them without too much trouble. Everything else can be deadly depending on RNG to an early group, nachos, raiders, webknechts, escorts, etc. So when you are constantly running out of gold on Expert economic difficulty, you HAVE to take some of those risky missions, and then it's up to the RNG gods.

I don't really get what you guys are arguing with me about. I said the absolute hardest difficlty settings are not feasible for regular gameplay, all of you argue, NO, NO that's not the case, but then it turns out none of you play on them anyway. So... you agree with me.
 

Darth Canoli

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I did successful runs on expert expert, even on expert economy and legendary combat difficulty, it just adds to the grinds and slows thing down as said by Kaivokz.
Well, legendary difficulty goes farther, it aborted 2 Legends custom lonewolf runs (one crusader and one berserker, i was overconfident with the latter, it was my first legendary run) because even early monsters are extremely strong with their new perks.

But expert economy is nothing special, just tediously grindy, you save expensive things for the one time where you find a settlement with a seasonal fair or ambushed trade routes and you sell regular loot after each fight because inventory spots are even more important, just more busy work.

About the RNG fucking you over, that's another urban legend.

If you know your enemies and take advantage of the terrain and your army strength, RNG can't do anything to stop you but if you think your favorite bro is superman and take too many risks, RNG will find a way to fuck you over...
 
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Serus

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The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning.
I have seen experienced coaches wrecked by a string of unlucky rolls. Experienced teams can make rolls more manageable, but you can't do much when you roll critical failures at worst possible moments.
Wait, what teams and coaches? We are still talking Battle Brothers, right?

Yes, in a way you can do much. How do YOU think people do several consecutive runs in roguelikes? Games with perma death AND rng AND no "team" - which makes it way worse than BB? I'll tell you - they minimise the risk. You are right that sooner or later random numbers will be against you. It is inevitable. So you play so that even when this inevitably happen, it isn't fatal. In a manner of speaking there shouldn't be any "worst moments" at all. In BB the main way to achieve this, is not tactics but the strategic map. You do not fight if you do not know that you'll (easily) win. Or you are prepared to take losses. It is actually easier in BB because there is no single life that loses the game (except in Lone Wolf start). It is harder at the very beginning because you have little choice or options. In addition very early your bros might die from just 2 or 3 bad rolls in a row. That can happen easily and semi often so is impossible to counter*. But when they can virtually always survive a couple of hits, you just don't have to place them in a situation where they need to take even more. And yes, very extreme cases happen but there comes the reason why BB is in a way easier - one or even two bros of 16+ dies in such extreme case and you move on.

In my expert game most of the brothers i lost (past early game) was because of:
a) lack of knowledge about an aspect of a game - the lindwurms vs my tank situation or the auto-retreat that i posted are exemples. I suspect that's one of the problems with Porky, except more often and in more basic situations.
b) me not considering all options - i could have saved a bros using a net or a smoke pot (that i always have on my bannerman) or in other ways but i was too lazy or inattentive to do it so i just let the game play hoping: "he'll live, he still can take a hit, enemy won't hit two difficult rolls in a row"
c) i simply was a bad at tactics and I caused the situation myself, situation where a string of bad rolls happened and where it was possible to happen at all
d) i choose a fight that was too risky for my company in the first place
Most of those deaths could have been avoided. Exception are some of the early deaths and some of the low level bros in late game deaths.
There were also some premature ends to a campaign very early, and one or two slightly later. I posted some. Cases a) , b) or d).

In short: I sucked. Not rng or game being against me, but it was me = sucking. Hopefully i suck a little less now.

Someone better than me wouldn't even take those loses or setbacks. I saw on youtube a guy who played tactics considering almost every move like it was chess, including the risk of each move basically**. And you know what? He complained that the game (on expert/im) poses no challenge past very early game (where it's rng related of curse) anymore. And i believe him.


*except using decoy/sacrifice bros that is but it is not perfect either.
**i suppose some people on Codex would call him "autistic".
 

Serus

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On a more happy note. What consumables do you use guys and girls? I mean except the obvious = nets and reinforced nets.
I on occasion I use smoke pots. Very rarely i remember to use them when it happens it saved a life of one or two of my bros.
What about the offensive pots: flash and fire?
Which stat enhancing ones you use? I only semi regularly late game use the +100% exp.
I played with some but most seem underwhelming/too much hassle.
The +20 initiative one seem good for a fencer since the max dmg is achieved at some insane score of ~175 iirc and you don't need that much to go first before basically anything nor you need to be at full dmg in every battle.
 

Darth Canoli

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What about the offensive pots: flash and fire?
Which stat enhancing ones you use? I only semi regularly late game use the +100% exp.
I played with some but most seem underwhelming/too much hassle.
The +20 initiative one seem good for a fencer since the max dmg is achieved at some insane score of ~175 iirc and you don't need that much to go first before basically anything nor you need to be at full dmg in every battle.

I thought max damage for fencers was at 200 ini last time i checked but i could be wrong and i was playing with Legends.
+100% xp before a rewarding fight is quite good, i think i used the lion resolve pot a couple of times long ago against hexes, now, i just use two great snipers instead.

Fire pot should be great against gheists but they're scarce.

Bandages are useful and antidotes against gobos.
Aside from the xp potion, bandages and antidotes, it's all a waste of gold...
 

Kaivokz

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I said the absolute hardest difficlty settings are not feasible for regular gameplay, all of you argue, NO, NO that's not the case, but then it turns out none of you play on them anyway.
It is feasible, just not as fun as veteran economy for me because I don't like managing the strategy layer that much.

except on Expert/Expert, you don't really have a choice
You do have a choice... if you refuse to take out camps or roving bands for loot and instead keep trying to make your money only from contracts... What is happening is that you are making bad choices and then saying "the only thing I could have done was make a bad choice" as if that makes expert/expert unfeasible.

Especially trying to make money from escort contracts is a bad idea. If you take a two day contract you need to account for wages and reduced durability of your food, AND you potentially miss out on a contract reset in the towns around you depending on when you take it. Beyond that, it's X number of days where you potentially aren't getting any EXP--if you take so many escort missions, I'm not surprised you're level 4-5 by day 107.
 

LizardWizard

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*crying*

I don't really get what you guys are arguing with me about. I said the absolute hardest difficlty settings are not feasible for regular gameplay, all of you argue, NO, NO that's not the case, but then it turns out none of you play on them anyway. So... you agree with me.

Expert difficulty doesn't excuse you getting filtered by 15 gobbo wolfriders (biggest joke enemy in the game) at day 100.
 
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I said the absolute hardest difficlty settings are not feasible for regular gameplay, all of you argue, NO, NO that's not the case, but then it turns out none of you play on them anyway.
It is feasible, just not as fun as veteran economy for me because I don't like managing the strategy layer that much.

Right, it's totally feasible, none of you just do it for personal reasons.


except on Expert/Expert, you don't really have a choice
You do have a choice... if you refuse to take out camps or roving bands for loot and instead keep trying to make your money only from contracts... What is happening is that you are making bad choices and then saying "the only thing I could have done was make a bad choice" as if that makes expert/expert unfeasible.

Especially trying to make money from escort contracts is a bad idea. If you take a two day contract you need to account for wages and reduced durability of your food, AND you potentially miss out on a contract reset in the towns around you depending on when you take it. Beyond that, it's X number of days where you potentially aren't getting any EXP--if you take so many escort missions, I'm not surprised you're level 4-5 by day 107.

You are kinda strawmanning here. I never said I take so many caravan missions. I said I have to take them sometimes because on Expert/Expert you are often out of gold and desperate, so you take whatever is there, even if you know it's a shitty contract.

And I would love to see you taking on roving bands or camps with an early group that can barely take on Bandit Thugs, when those roving bands/camps on Expert difficulty often consist of raiders in full metal armor, orcs, including berserkers and warriors, and other such tough enemies. Makes me wonder what difficulty you are actually playing on if you are able to do this.

There is one curious thing I noticed, people here always talk about how good they are, and if you bring up any legitimate issues with any game, you get your typical retarded "git gud" thing from some morons, BUT... but... when I completed an ironman campaign on Veteran before, Steam gave me an achievement saying only something like 5% of all BB players manage to complete an Ironman campaign on ANY difficulty setting, including Beginner.

So something doesn't add up here. Only 5% or less can even do Beginner Ironman in this game, and yet here we have all these internet heroes who claim Expert/Expert/Ironman is totally doable (though none of them seem to be the ones doing it once you dig into the details). So what am I to deduce from this? Are some people full of shit, or do we have some uber autists here who maybe read online game guides and calculate all under the hood mechanics of the game for days before playing, and perhaps don't understand what "regularly playing" the game means? The mysteries of life...
 

LizardWizard

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I completed everything from Dark Souls 1-3
:D

Some fucking RNG always gets you, whether its a shitty map, shitty contracts, shitty battle rolls, shitty spawn rolls.

:P

I don't have a problem with goblins. I have a problem with the goblins when they are riding wolves

Filtered.

If you want real bullshit, try playing legendary Legends mod and let me know your feeling on Skin Ghouls. :positive:
 

ColaWerewolf

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If your band gets wiped by 15 wolfraiders on Expert while you're on day 100+ I feel bad for you son, I have 99 orc warlord problems but a green twat on a doggy ain't one.

So what am I to deduce from this? Are some people full of shit, or do we have some uber autists here who maybe read online game guides and calculate all under the hood mechanics of the game for days before playing, and perhaps don't understand what "regularly playing" the game means?
You missed the Horvatii (RIP) arc of the Battle Brothers thread. I don't disagree with you. The truth is that if you're just "regularly playing" the game, yeah, you're gonna have a bad time on Expert/Expert/Ironman. That's because that difficulty is designed for people that meta-game the best set-ups to minimize their RNG, and cheese as many encounters and money-making schemes available. The people who min-max the ever living fuck out of every single brother (eventually). It's designed for those autistic ubermensch, not for the regular Steam Steve who thinks he can win by winging it and learning as he goes. If you just want to see everything the game has to offer (which I do recommend) then just play it on a lower difficulty and get some mods, then enjoy exploring.

Honestly I don't really know what your goal is. It seems like you just want to beat the hardest possible difficulty while simultaneously shitting on the min-max autists. It's like wanting to take a bath but pissing in the water.
 

Harthwain

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Wait, what teams and coaches? We are still talking Battle Brothers, right?
Mea culpa. I saw "BB" and thought "Blood Bowl", because that's how I am used to read it.

On a more happy note. What consumables do you use guys and girls? I mean except the obvious = nets and reinforced nets.
I kind of hate to use consumables (other than projectiles), because I feel like it's bleeding money. That said, I would love to have more readily access to nets. What I do keep on hand are bandages on second-liners (archers, billhookers, etc.), since they can stop bleeding on frontline troops when necessary. I think my next playthrough will be as Beast Slayers, because it grants better access to trophies, so I might experiment more with consumables.

There is one curious thing I noticed, people here always talk about how good they are, and if you bring up any legitimate issues with any game, you get your typical retarded "git gud" thing from some morons, BUT... but... when I completed an ironman campaign on Veteran before, Steam gave me an achievement saying only something like 5% of all BB players manage to complete an Ironman campaign on ANY difficulty setting, including Beginner.

So something doesn't add up here. Only 5% or less can even do Beginner Ironman in this game, and yet here we have all these internet heroes who claim Expert/Expert/Ironman is totally doable (though none of them seem to be the ones doing it once you dig into the details). So what am I to deduce from this? Are some people full of shit, or do we have some uber autists here who maybe read online game guides and calculate all under the hood mechanics of the game for days before playing, and perhaps don't understand what "regularly playing" the game means? The mysteries of life...
Only 6.6% of game owners lost 10 campaigns on Ironman mode. What this means? Merely that people don't play on Ironman. 13.3% reach day 100 on veteran difficulty or higher. 30.7% reach day 10 on veteran difficulty or higher. What this means? Probably that a lot of people play on beginner difficulty. Either that or ~60% of them don't last 9 days.
 

Brancaleone

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If your band gets wiped by 15 wolfraiders on Expert while you're on day 100+ I feel bad for you son, I have 99 orc warlord problems but a green twat on a doggy ain't one.

Well, he said his guys were level 4-5, of course 9 wolfriders followed by other 15 wolfriders might pose a problem. I assumed he had a few party wipes before that point.
 

Serus

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1) In very many games - see steam achievement stats - the % of people even trying to seriously play a game are very low, let alone finishing one at any difficulty. Does it mean most games are unplayable on most difficulties?
2. I AM doing an Expert/Ironman (veteran economy) run right now! I never once claimed i do E/E. However, yes it must be doable because i am VERY FAR from being great at the game.
3) This difficulty is not for everyone, we told you that more than once. You choose a difficulty that is hardest, most masochistic and for people who mastered the game or are bored. And you play it casually - yes you do, not even finishing once the game earlier on some less insane difficulty is a dead giveaway. And no, several years ago without any dlc doesn't count.
3) Would it help if the difficulty was called "unfair" or "impossible". "Veteran" was "challenging" and "beginner" - "normal"? Would it be more clear?
4) You still didn't even consider that something, anything can be less than good in how YOU play sometimes. At least from your post, it certainly looks like it.Yes i know, you finished Dark Souls, you must play all games like a pro, right?.
You still act like some teenager angry at the world in here, blaming the world of everything.
5) If you imply that I and others LIE then you are more hopeless than i thought. Why I or others would want to make it up? To troll YOU personally? We come to a thread with a several years old game in a forum where no one cares about such thing and we make up our battle brothers experiences? Is that REALLY what you believe?
6) If you really want and promise to watch a little i will make the effort and provide you with some good YT let's plays. Where all this Expert play is shown before your eyes. And yes those are from experienced players - as the difficulty in question is for, you know - "expert", lol. That naming wasn't the best i must admit.
 

Consul

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One thing that bothers me in this game is the map size, I find it pretty weird that the devs have not expanded it in the latter dlcs. I guess technical limitations prevent them from enlarging the map? I have downloaded the Legends mod, but I will probably hold it for later since I just bought the latest dlc and I would like to complete what it has to offer in the vanilla game. I also have not completed any legendary locations, so there is also that, I'm playing on veteran/veteran/ironman btw. Is the Legends mod a needless bloat or does it actually make the game more interesting?
 

Harthwain

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6) If you really want and promise to watch a little i will make the effort and provide you with some good YT let's plays. Where all this Expert play is shown before your eyes. And yes those are from experienced players - as the difficulty in question is for, you know - "expert", lol. That naming wasn't the best i must admit.
To be frank, I don't like that the easiest difficulty is called "beginner", because it makes people new to the game avoid it as they think they are above it. It should be called "standard" instead.
 

Lios

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Is the Legends mod a needless bloat or does it actually make the game more interesting?

Summoning Darth Canoli as he seems to be the expert in Legends.
I played with Legends for a while before the last DLC. It changes the game in many ways that I don't particularly enjoy (f.e you can use magic, there are classes and skill trees etc),it adds enemies, and some qol bits and pieces that are indeed useful (map generator, if I'm not mistaken). I find that it mostly deviates from the BB formula that I grew to love, yet I am glad that it exists.
 

Serus

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6) If you really want and promise to watch a little i will make the effort and provide you with some good YT let's plays. Where all this Expert play is shown before your eyes. And yes those are from experienced players - as the difficulty in question is for, you know - "expert", lol. That naming wasn't the best i must admit.
To be frank, I don't like that the easiest difficulty is called "beginner", because it makes people new to the game avoid it as they think they are above it. It should be called "standard" instead.

The devs of BB are either "old school" themselves or they wanted to name the difficulty as they think they work. The lowest difficulty is for beginners with the game - so they called it, surprise, "beginner". And then, as You said, everyone think it is below them to play something called "beginner" because they finished Dark Souls they are great players and they start at higher level.
BTW, when i returned to BB after years and all DLC added i re-started at beginner with normal saves for a short time. And for a moment it was challenging.

An old fart rant: i like when games have difficulty levels specific to the game. In Microprose's games in 80s and 90s that was standard practice. In Railroad Tycoon you had difficulty levels from Investor trough Mogul to Tycoon. In Pirates! there was journeyman, rogue, swashbuckler, etc... Then goes the FPP games, Doom's "I'm to young to die!", "Hurt me plenty" etc... Today's some games have it to of curse. It makes the choice a bit less awkward. Still the lowest difficulty is the easiest but might be easier to swallow for a "i finished all Final Fantasy games, i'm pro" sort of guys. And, IMO, it is cool. They should have named them in Battle Brothers: Thug(easy), Brigand(medium), Orc Berserker(hard) or something like that.
 

thesecret1

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An old fart rant: i like when games have difficulty levels specific to the game. In Microprose's games in 80s and 90s that was standard practice. In Railroad Tycoon you had difficulty levels from Investor trough Mogul to Tycoon. In Pirates! there was journeyman, rogue, swashbuckler, etc... Then goes the FPP games, Doom's "I'm to young to die!", "Hurt me plenty" etc... Today's some games have it to of curse. It makes the choice a bit less awkward. Still the lowest difficulty is the easiest but might be easier to swallow for a "i finished all Final Fantasy games, i'm pro" sort of guys. And, IMO, it is cool. They should have named them in Battle Brothers: Thug(easy), Brigand(medium), Orc Berserker(hard) or something like that.
It'd be easier to swallow for sure because it's not immediately obvious that it's easy/medium/hard. For example, in Diablo 1, you were expected to start at the lowest difficulty, then port your character to the next difficulty and so on. Some other games also feature a lot more than just 3 difficulty settings, so you don't immediately know which one of them is the medium one, which is hard, etc.

IMO the simplest solution to this I've seen was to rebrand the settings to medium/hard/lunatic, even though it's really just easy/medium/hard. People don't like the "easy" difficulty because AAAs taught them that "easy" stands for "mentally handicapped".
 

Darth Canoli

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Is the Legends mod a needless bloat or does it actually make the game more interesting?
Summoning Darth Canoli as he seems to be the expert in Legends.
I played with Legends for a while before the last DLC. It changes the game in many ways that I don't particularly enjoy (f.e you can use magic, there are classes and skill trees etc),it adds enemies, and some qol bits and pieces that are indeed useful (map generator, if I'm not mistaken). I find that it mostly deviates from the BB formula that I grew to love, yet I am glad that it exists.

Legends brings much to the table, starting from a lot of origins.
- Party of adventurers with one crusader, one berserker, one ranger, a wizard, a noble (buffer) and an assassin, i think (it was a warlock before)
All these characters have their own set of perks and lone-wolf origin so this particular origin is vastly overpowered.
- Many new lone-wolf like origins
- Undead origin
- Druid which is a mage shapeshifter and using goblin shaman spells

Power of Magic mod adds magic trio (very powerful mages putting the Legends wizard to shame), magic company (you chose how many and which magic users you want to start with), a new lonewolf origin with a kind of spellsword and a witch origin allowing you to do what Hexes do, aka charming permanently opponents (one per fights, some can't be charmed or have really low chances).

There's runes you can craft with the Vala (you can start with her through her origin or get her through a random encounter if you meet the requirements, being in the top 20% snowy area with a cumulative level of 20 at least, i think) or get as drops from some monsters (Alps, lindwurms, schrats, hexes, ...) which add some boost to an equipment.

The new camping options are interesting too, there's new monsters, new contracts ...

Just stay away from the Legendary difficulty if you're not a glutton for punishment.

Other useful advices:
- uncheck layered armors, at least on your first run
- uncheck equipment scaling, you'll thank me later

That said, if i avoid layered armors (i find the extra micro-management extremely tedious and not worth the effort and the result is ugly), i usually play with equipment scaling, without it, i find the game too easy on expert because of the new contracts cash flow but with it, some legendary contracts are quite something (like twice my bro number in rock unholds or 3 times my company number in white direwolves and in case you're asking, they're impossible fights).
 
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Jrpgfan

Erudite
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Feb 7, 2016
Messages
2,007
It changes the game in many ways that I don't particularly enjoy (f.e you can use magic, there are classes and skill trees etc),it adds enemies,

All of that is optional and can be disabled before starting the game. I sometimes play it for the additional origins and some QoL improvements. There's an option to enable unique perks according to background which I find pretty cool.
 

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