Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Fedora Master]

Uuuhhh... Did the early game get way easier or am I just somehow that good all of a sudden? Im at the GMS compound and have much less trouble with the security bots and whatnot.

 

[Whisper]

Any info on new quest line?

Also what is consensus on new Psi build?

 

[sebas]

Guys I really wanna play a sword throught controller but I just can't figure out the right stats balance. I will play on Hard+Oddity. How much Dex do you think I need in order to reliably hit shit?

 

[Ghulgothas]

How much Dex do you think I need in order to reliably hit shit?

Less than you're probably thinking, machetes get more from strength than they do dex. 7 Dex will get you the lion's share of feats needed for machetes, 10 if you really want Ripper for critical damage.

 

[jackofshadows]

Isn't the juice provided 20 min buff before? Instead of 15. Fucking... why? :D

 

[Fenix]

Becoming a mutat, you keep some of the feats, but not all. Can't craft. Can't wear anything I think.
There is a list on discord, here it is.

Spoiler

 

[Blaine]

Also it sounds like you never had high agi? Its so nice to sneak around and bypass agi traversal checks

I have—both on my recent spear/riot armor build (which was not Stealth-based, but I wanted good MP), and on this Expertise SMG build as well. 10 AGI in both cases.

Currently, at character level 26 with 10 AGI, I have 70 MP while wearing a black tactical coat with no armor plate. I'm getting close to 300 effective Stealth, also.

Once I get Blitz at level 28, this build will be more-or-less complete. I'm putting a couple of spec points into Hit and Run so that, with Sprint + Hit and Run, I can get 61 MP on demand.

A typical all-out battle flow might go like this:

• sneak to advantageous position
• throw a plasma grenade (-15 AP)
  
• hit Adrenaline Shot (+20 AP)
  
• burst until someone dies (1 free burst and +9 AP from Commando spec)
• bursts are augmented by spec'd Expertise (+25 additive) and spec'd Opportunist w/Suppressive Fire and Blindsiding (+39% multiplicative)
  
• combine a Hit and Run proc with Sprint, activate Blitz (+20 AP)
• continue to burst and utilize Hit and Run; reserve last Hit and Run proc to start toward the nearest cover
  
• throw a flashbang (-15 AP)
• Rapid Reloader will most likely proc

If we assume I get 5 AP from Rapid Reloader, that's 50 + 20 + 20 + 9 + 5 = 104 AP. That's two grenade throws (-30 AP), five bursts (-64 AP plus free burst), and I can then either reload (-4 AP), gulp a medicine (-10 AP), or use it as additional MP. If RR doesn't proc, it'll probably be a reload.

I'm then left with 30-40ish MP (from final spec'd Hit and Run proc, plus possible leftover AP) to use to start running for that corner. During a really tough battle, I might have a small minefield/caltrops field prepared to run back to, because I also have high Traps, and Sure Step.

The power of this build is totally absurd, trivializing the game at this point. I want to switch to Dominating now, even though I can't, although I wouldn't like the sell prices nerf....

woops, I forgot, all your characters are retards who have no ability to get out of the way of projectiles, huh... huh

Why would I need to waste shitloads of feats and skill points on those black-hole trap skills that can be totally negated by a head bonk or a bad die roll when (variously):

• enemies virtually never get a chance to shoot in the first place (my current build, my old stealth psi build)
  
• the energy shield absorbs what little fire they can manage, on any build
  
• whatever fire does get through bounces off or is largely absorbed by my tin can, riot armor, or tactical coat
• blocking is much better and more reliable than Dodge, and requires 0 skill points (RIP Death Stalkers)

You still haven't really produced a proper argument. If you're going to have your character stand there and actually let enemies shoot at you like the average Steam reviewer, then you might as well opt for a tin can build. In fact, the whole reason enemies are able to attack you instead of just being obliterated before they can even act is because you've wasted skill points, feats, and gear on Dodge and Evasion.

 

[normie]

Why would I need to waste shitloads of feats and skill points on those black-hole trap skills that can be totally negated by a head bonk or a bad die roll when (variously):

You still haven't really produced a proper argument. If you're going to have your character stand there and actually let enemies shoot at you like the average Steam reviewer.

unlike you, I specialise in things - unlike you, I don't have to have every option available to me at all times - unlike you, I'm playing an RPG and I don't need to be a master of all playstyles at all times - unlike you, I'm not obsessive and compulsive and demand every little quirk and way of playing to be catered to by demanding infinite energy goggles, equal range with mooks because I can't handle things as is and wholly attribute derivative dodge and evasion mechanics because MY RETARD BRAIN, MY RETARD OCD brain feels it's a mortal sin to invest in defense skills because MY RETARD BRAIN has made the autistic determination it detracts from all other possible things I could be hitting the milestones in while not getting any meaningful use out of, just because I covet it

I just invest in things I can use to solve the problems the game presents - you only need a way to deal damage, that means you only need 1 weapon skill OR NO SKILLS to progress the game, everything you invest in from that point is extra

I don't need

shitloads of feats and skill points on those black-hole trap skills that can be totally negated by a head bonk or a bad die roll when

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

 

[Blaine]

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

Never cried about it, not even once. You're imagining things at this point. In fact, never once have I thought, "Damn, I really wish I'd invested in Evasion!". That's because there aren't any situations that require Evasion.

I suppose you're referring to my assertion that a bonk on the noggin or a bad roll can negate your ill-advised skill point sinks. That's a separate issue. Even if they couldn't be negated by stuns et al., they'd still be unnecessary. I'm not saying you CAN'T build around them, or that they don't work, mind you. I've never claimed that, not even once. You can build around them and they do work, but in my view, you receive a poor return on your investment.

As for the rest of your gibberish, nearly all of my skills, feats, and gear work for me at all times—most in every single battle, by proxy if not directly (thinking of crafting skills). The sole exception in this case would be the shield emitter, since I rarely need it, but it's very nice to have it when it is needed. Power Management isn't only good for emitters and goggles, but also for cloaking devices, and furthermore it substantially increases the value of crafted electronics. Electronics are the one category where you'll need to craft your own in order to clean out the charons and good stuff from electronics vendors every time, so that's nothing to sniff at.

I'm going to run an Evasion and Dodge build at some point in order to evaluate it, but I already know how they work and can extrapolate the rest. It's right there in the precision mechanics and feat descriptions. They certainly don't do shit if you kill all of your opponents before they can even attack you—you can't deny that. It's self-evident.

 

[CHEMS]

If i can force vents with a crowbar, why can't i force doors? That never made sense. Is it just because MUH BALANCE?

 

[normie]

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

Never cried about it, not even once. You're imagining things at this point. In fact, never once have I thought, "Damn, I really wish I'd invested in Evasion!". That's because there aren't any situations that require Evasion.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SAVAGES KEEP HITTING ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MAKE IT EQUAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BUT EVEN IF THINGS WERE EQUAL I'D STILL FIND MYSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE I WANT TO EVADEEEEE WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I WANT TO EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILL PLEASE TAKE AWAY THE DEFENSE SKILLS BECAUSE I WANT TO DODGE AND EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILLS BUT I DON'T WANNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

LET ME JUST INVEST SKILL POINTS TO ELECTRONICS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME SO I CAN BUILD A 2K SHIELD ONCE BY THE END OF THE GAME EVERY SINGLE PLAYTHROUGH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO PLAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

EVERYTHING IS USELESS UNLESS IT'S MY WAY OF DOING THINGS, I HAVE HOARDED 100K CHARONS BUT I'M STILL COMPELLED TO SELL ELECTRONICS MUMMY SAYS I'M NORMAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

t. Blaine

 

[CHEMS]

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

Never cried about it, not even once. You're imagining things at this point. In fact, never once have I thought, "Damn, I really wish I'd invested in Evasion!". That's because there aren't any situations that require Evasion.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SAVAGES KEEP HITTING ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MAKE IT EQUAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BUT EVEN IF THINGS WERE EQUAL I'D STILL FIND MYSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE I WANT TO EVADEEEEE WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I WANT TO EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILL PLEASE TAKE AWAY THE DEFENSE SKILLS BECAUSE I WANT TO DODGE AND EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILLS BUT I DON'T WANNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

LET ME JUST INVEST SKILL POINTS TO ELECTRONICS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME SO I CAN BUILD A 2K SHIELD ONCE BY THE END OF THE GAME EVERY SINGLE PLAYTHROUGH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO PLAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

EVERYTHING IS USELESS UNLESS IT'S MY WAY OF DOING THINGS, I HAVE HOARDED 100K CHARONS BUT I'M STILL COMPELLED TO SELL ELECTRONICS MUMMY SAYS I'M NORMAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

t. Blaine

Indeed, evading all the nets those finlandic snake faggots throws at me while they cower in fear with my brutality kills feels SO good

I'll never diss dodge and evasion again

 

[Blaine]

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

Never cried about it, not even once. You're imagining things at this point. In fact, never once have I thought, "Damn, I really wish I'd invested in Evasion!". That's because there aren't any situations that require Evasion.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SAVAGES KEEP HITTING ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MAKE IT EQUAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BUT EVEN IF THINGS WERE EQUAL I'D STILL FIND MYSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE I WANT TO EVADEEEEE WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I WANT TO EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILL PLEASE TAKE AWAY THE DEFENSE SKILLS BECAUSE I WANT TO DODGE AND EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILLS BUT I DON'T WANNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

LET ME JUST INVEST SKILL POINTS TO ELECTRONICS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME SO I CAN BUILD A 2K SHIELD ONCE BY THE END OF THE GAME EVERY SINGLE PLAYTHROUGH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO PLAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

EVERYTHING IS USELESS UNLESS IT'S MY WAY OF DOING THINGS, I HAVE HOARDED 100K CHARONS BUT I'M STILL COMPELLED TO SELL ELECTRONICS MUMMY SAYS I'M NORMAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

t. Blaine

The savages haven't even hit me yet this playthrough during the two assaults I've participated in. The scenario I was presenting was HYPOTHETICAL in nature, its purpose being to demonstrate how ridiculous the sight range inequity is and to assert that that flaw should be fixed.

Evasion is absolutely not a solution to the fact that the player can't utilize 1/3rd of the maximum range of sniper rifles, or that enemies can shoot at the player from 14 squares away whilst the player can't even see said enemy over a stretch of flat, open terrain. In fact, Evasion is completely irrelevant; the level of delusion and Reddit-tier conflation you're capable of defies belief. Even if the natives missed every shot because of your Evasion score, the fact that the scenario is even possible is a problem.

Besides which, using the native assaults as a justification for your side of this argument is totally laughable. This isn't a wave defense game, and native defense is one small part of a very big game. Congrats on spending hundreds of skill points to help you out during 2-3% of the game. I'm really missing out.

Just say "It feels good to dodge shit, I like it" and quit trying to pretend that shit is in any way optimal. At least CHEMS is rational and seems to understand why he likes his Dodge and Evasion build.

 

[normie]

what I HAVE is EVASION in situations YOU DON'T and THEN CRY ABOUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RETARDED FAGGOT

Never cried about it, not even once. You're imagining things at this point. In fact, never once have I thought, "Damn, I really wish I'd invested in Evasion!". That's because there aren't any situations that require Evasion.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SAVAGES KEEP HITTING ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MAKE IT EQUAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BUT EVEN IF THINGS WERE EQUAL I'D STILL FIND MYSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE I WANT TO EVADEEEEE WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I WANT TO EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILL PLEASE TAKE AWAY THE DEFENSE SKILLS BECAUSE I WANT TO DODGE AND EVADE BUT IT REQUIRES SKILLS BUT I DON'T WANNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

LET ME JUST INVEST SKILL POINTS TO ELECTRONICS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME SO I CAN BUILD A 2K SHIELD ONCE BY THE END OF THE GAME EVERY SINGLE PLAYTHROUGH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO PLAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

EVERYTHING IS USELESS UNLESS IT'S MY WAY OF DOING THINGS, I HAVE HOARDED 100K CHARONS BUT I'M STILL COMPELLED TO SELL ELECTRONICS MUMMY SAYS I'M NORMAL WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

t. Blaine

The savages haven't even hit me yet this playthrough during the two assaults I've participated in. The scenario I was presenting was HYPOTHETICAL in nature, its purpose being to demonstrate how ridiculous the sight range inequity is and to assert that that flaw should be fixed.

Evasion is absolutely not a solution to the fact that the player can't utilize 1/3rd of the maximum range of sniper rifles, or that enemies can shoot at the player from 14 squares away whilst the player can't even see said enemy over a stretch of flat, open terrain. In fact, Evasion is completely irrelevant; the level of delusion and Reddit-tier conflation you're capable of defies belief. Even if the natives missed every shot because of your Evasion score, the fact that the scenario is even possible is a problem.

Besides which, using the native assaults as a justification for your side of this argument is totally laughable. This isn't a wave defense game, and native defense is one small part of a very big game. Congrats on spending hundreds of skill points to help you out during 2-3% of the game. I'm really missing out.

Just say "It feels good to dodge shit, I like it" and quit trying to pretend that shit is in any way optimal. At least CHEMS is rational and seems to understand why he likes his Dodge and Evasion build.

lmao cool story, I'm just here evading, evading to the max

there's nothing more reddit tier than dumping defense skills, it's what EVERY BABBY DOES because EVERY BABBY goes on a forum to get help and there's some FAGGOT like YOU who went to the forums themselves to get HELP because they're a pussy, got some terrible advice about dumping defense, and on and on and on, so you get these legions of REDDIT BABBIES dumping evasion

every babby wants to master all the skills just like in SKYRIM and every babby is told defense is the place you get those points from

your retarded ass is reloading encounters again and again, you get fucked the moment you get hit once, and you get fucked the moment your alpha strike doesn't go your way, with no path to recovery, or the half hours you spent laying traps doesn't pan out the exact way you need when put to play - you spend 2 hours on an encounter, and once you get through by the end of you're like "phew, didn't need those defense skills after all, glad I can open up every lock and keypad for those precious rubber balls and rags"

DUMPING DEFENSE IS REDDIT

and don't talk about CHEMS, he's my bro now

 

[Fedora Master]

Almost 666 pages guys

 

[Sweeper]

there's nothing more reddit tier than dumping defense skills,

Those defense skills aren't as cost effective as putting points into crafting or focusing on offense though.
We've been over this. Just admit that you're wrong and move on.

 

[Fenix]

Greanades eliminate shield fast. Evade allow to spit on greanades.

 

[lukaszek]

any info on how do you obtain monstrous yell?

 

[normie]

there's nothing more reddit tier than dumping defense skills,

Those defense skills aren't as cost effective as putting points into crafting or focusing on offense though.
We've been over this. Just admit that you're wrong and move on.

we haven't been over this - well, I went over this, and defense dumping jabronis turned into jelly-like slime that pours through the fingers, not remembering the day before, gradually I began to hate them etc etc - you've got nothing but strawmen ie I say "evade works to help you evade projectiles" and Blaine responds with "VEY IS MIR ALL THOSE 6 MILLION FEATS AND ALL THOSE SKILL POINTS IN DODGE AND EVASION AND NOTHING LEFT OVER SO YOU CAN MAYBE EVADE AN ATTACK NOT WOOORTH OOHH MA ASTHMA" - to which I say "no, just skill points, in both or just one, depending on other considerations", to which he repeats himself

there is a distinct sickness of defense dumping in all circumstance, it's built on deluded thinking and bad memes, it's resulting in a lot of unnecessary pain in the world, I'm only addressing that

crafting isn't all that, both making and denying the relative value comparison is goofy, you can find a lot of good shit that's perfectly up to specification - gear *exists*, it can be used - but you either make a roll of the dice on defense, or don't, AND I DO with characters that benefit from it

and it's not an either or, you're not sacrificing offense for defense, you're not even sacrificing crafting, YOU will be smart about it - this is a false dillema

this is you playing underrail

Spoiler

this is me playing underrail

Spoiler

DEFENSE SKILLS (ESPECIALLY EVASION) ARE THE ULTIMATE QOL SKILLS IN UNDERRAIL

 

[CHEMS]

While you both argue about whether shield or dodge & evasion is better, i'm here enjoying both as a true untouchable aristocrat with my hammer build. You know what this means? CAN'T TOUCH ME

STOP

HAMMER TIME!

 

[Sweeper]

and it's not an either or, you're not sacrificing offense for defense, you're not even sacrificing crafting, YOU will be smart about it - this is a false dillema

I'm not saying that the choice between offense or defense is a binary one, I'm saying you get more bang for your buck by investing in pretty much anything else other than dodge/evasion.
If you want defense you can literally be invulnerable with the right tincan build.

Dodge/evasion is viable but it's also clearly suboptimal, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Fedora Master]

While you both argue about whether shield or dodge & evasion is better, i'm here enjoying both as a true untouchable aristocrat with my hammer build. You know what this means? CAN'T TOUCH ME

STOP

HAMMER TIME!

This is certainly the most CURSED and SATANIC screenshot possible.
Christ Almighty protect us from people who make photos of their monitor.

 

[Sweeper]

This is certainly the most CURSED and SATANIC screenshot possible.

Perfect page number for it.

 

[CHEMS]

This is certainly the most CURSED and SATANIC screenshot possible.
Christ Almighty protect us from people who make photos of their monitor.

Forgive me lord, for my prtsc key is busted

-

Got a badass 150Q Super Steel plate from Bernard. Should i make a badass electrohammer or should i use to make infuse leather with the 60Q hopper skin i got from the tattoo mutie?

 

[normie]

and it's not an either or, you're not sacrificing offense for defense, you're not even sacrificing crafting, YOU will be smart about it - this is a false dillema

I'm not saying that the choice between offense or defense is a binary one, I'm saying you get more bang for your buck by investing in pretty much anything else other than dodge/evasion.
If you want defense you can literally be invulnerable with the right tincan build.

Dodge/evasion is viable but it's also clearly suboptimal, that's all I'm saying.

and that's clearly wrong

you don't get to do more damage because you dump defense, it just means you've dumped defense, most likely for marginal benefits - what the fuck is more bang for your buck than not taking hits, not having to abuse LOS, not limiting your positioning options before and during combat, not getting netted, not getting entangled by pukeacid, not getting poisoned, doubling or tripling your shield, your health, not spending action points on drugs to pep yourself up, not putting them on cooldown

Spoiler

and what the fuck are you bringing up tincans for, it's not like I'm insisting on nothing but defense skill utilising builds or utilising defense skills on tincans - another retarded strawman, don't bother me