Decline Why do MMOs suck so much?

[rusty_shackleford]

tera only exists because of pedophiles

no, really, it's true. The devs wrote an article about it in their gookspeak language. The game would have been shut down if they didn't add a race that looks like a female child and heavily monetize sexual outfits for it. It's also the reason most of the new classes added are locked to that race.
https://web.archive.org/web/2017091...general-discussion/topics/BHS-Elin-saved-Tera
They were able to use monetized skimpy outfits on a little girl model to make their game free2play.

After that, making costumes was a simple task- They say school swimming suits, bloomers, and maid outfits are the 3 wonders in Japan. Maid costume was especially a big hit. Due to all the profit from Elin costumes, we were able to transition Tera into Free-to-Play format smoothly.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Tbh, I don't even know of Tera. So out of the loop.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Tbh, I don't even know of Tera. So out of the loop.

generic asian pedo shit

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Good grief.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I played Tera for a few hours in 2013 or so. It was because some guy who likes lolis wanted people to play the game with him. I actually rather liked it and would like to go back and play that particular version again, but at the time I didn't like playing with this weirdo floating around me.

I mean, my character was kemoshota, so we were both degenerates, but that's not the point!!! I just wanna play games solo.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I looked at the steam page and dragon flight shooter looked kind of interesting. Then I googled/youtubed around.

Spoiler

Gameplay


2021


Old 2011 trailer


2017 trailer

concepts?

Spoiler

Standard Titty & ass types:

So horny... she's about ready to fall off her horse.

Uh WTF?!? A raccoon (red panda... close enough).

well.... action eh?

Spoiler

Hello kitty Terra 2016

Yeah.... that's just wrong. Are all such MMOs floating that type of boat?

 

[Gerrard]

the combat is basically ESO except without the retarded animation cancelling shit

ESO's combat cannot even stand in the same solar system as Tera's combat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the combat is basically ESO except without the retarded animation cancelling shit

ESO's combat cannot even stand in the same solar system as Tera's combat.

ok coomer

 

[anvi]

You can make your character look normal in Tera you don't have to look anime! It looks ok most of the time but towns are full of weebs / pedos / whatevers. Most of the time you spend looking at dungeons and creatures. It was kind of famous for its combat, but used to be terrible in every other way. They did a relaunch last year and now the combat is even better and everything else is better too, but it is still pretty bad outside of the combat.

 

[cvv]

The entire modern anime industry exists bc of pedos.

During the Miyazaki/Oshii era anime was about beauty, poetry, philosophy and feelz. Today it's all about lolis with cat ears and similar degeneracy.

In my youth nerds fapped over Red Sonya archetypes. Today anime body pillows is the rage. I think I'm becoming a militant feminist - I fucking hate modern "men".

 

[Morenatsu.]

In my youth nerds fapped over Red Sonya archetypes. Today anime body pillows is the rage. I think I'm becoming a militant feminist - I fucking hate modern "men".

I don't get it, what's the difference? You're all still fapping to trannies either way.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I thought anime real dolls & holograms were all the rage.

NSFW .... unless you're in the porn industry, sell these, or just have a pervy workplace, or work from home I guess.

Spoiler

Body pillows, mouse pads, etc are for the poor sods not the VIPs (very innovative pervert). Oh... I forgot the VR package. Oh well.

 

[TedNugent]

Is there an MMO that actually has character building. World of Warcraft really turns me off with its cookie cutter.

Legendaries, itemization, talents, Covenants are literally just "look at wowhead guide for BiS." The fact that they got rid of the old talent tree because of cookie cutter just to replace it with more systems that just provide more opportunities for potential builds you can safely ignore in the chase to be top DPS/heal.

I literally sometimes just ponder why Blizzard bothers putting such an excessive amount of effort into building these systems just to have everyone select BiS and ignore 90% of all build options. Then I stoop to pondering why they bother to implement classes to begin with when half or greater of the playerbase ends up getting FotM in their given role selection. Just imagine that they actually hardcoded three roles into the game in the form of the holy trinity and then are evidently shocked by every patch cycle when players flood towards the BiS class in each given archetype. Both external and internal balance patches result in nothing more than people switching to the new BiS.

They could literally make the same gameplay by having "damage," "tank," and "healer" classes with few exceptions. Talent choices could be wiped. There would be no distinguishing changes to the way the game is played other than a flood of salt being swept away by a flood of tears by "roleplayers" who do nothing more than play a prebuilt class.

 

[anvi]

All RPGs and MMO devolve into that though, if it has Wizards they are pumping INT and Clerics pumping Wis and then a best item for each slot. Some games like UO, Darkfall, etc, did no classes and build whatever you want, but that degenerates into cookie cutter builds too.

It is one of the reasons I love EQ and Vanguard and don't care about all other MMOs. They have multiple items for each slot and each one can have pros and cons and work in different ways. Like one Bard might be stabbing with 2 daggers, and another Bard might have a magic berserker's hammer that casts a spell. Or they might use an instrument and not weapons. It also took so long to get levels and so long to travel, that there was never a "best" of anything. No point finding a guide on "best hunting ground" or whatever because it might be days from where you are. And there might be somewhere else good nearby if you explore. You also had no idea what the best item even was for any slot, and most of your slots were empty, so "the best gloves" might be far away and impossible for you to get, but there might be an ok pair of gloves nearby and a really good cloak. So you focus on that and it takes a week, and then you hopefully hear about some other good item that you can fill another weak or empty slot.

When everyone finally reaches max level, this all degenerates into xyz are best items. But EQ wants that to never happen, so it took a year of obsessed kids playing daily to reach max level. And by that point they released an expansion pack. And they kept that going now, 27 expansions or something now...

Personally I didn't like it. I was one of the obsessed kids who busted his balls reaching max level and getting good items, took a year. Then an expansion came along and raised the goal line. It made everything I had obsolete, and some newbie can come along and get all the best new items same as me. That year of fun but also work, was for nothing. The feeling of progression is ruined, and all that prestige you feel from being the big strong guy, is taken away.

Maybe it depends on your perspective, but mine was that they instantly made everything I worked for into some passing meaningless thing. Items I had for 6 months and treasured, were getting dumped for something better. Which would be ok if that was rare, but now I knew it was going to just be a complete reset every 12 months, makes the whole thing feel less special. Most people didn't feel like that... the expansions all sold well until WoW came along. But I mattered enough to me that I quit for a year or two, and when I went back "the rat race" was far more evident. Everyone was an obsessed zombie rushing to BiS before the next expansion comes and they do the whole race all over again. I'm too lazy for that shit... But I love EQ/Vanguard so I played for years on my own terms and in my own ways.

 

[anvi]

Brad McQuaid was really the only one I know who even cared about this kind of thing... His new game Pantheon is designed exactly like what I was describing. Designed to be "horizontal" progression. They want it so that someone who rushes through the levels will actually be weaker than someone who explores the world and enjoys it. They achieve it by having unique spells you can learn and stuff, and you only find all these things if you travel far and wide and do a lot. Vanguard already had the spell learning thing but they were not essential spells. Pantheon looks like it might be going down a real route in terms on this stuff but since Brad died, I don't know if it will live on or if they will simplify and streamline all his stuff.

 

[TedNugent]

All RPGs and MMO devolve into that though, if it has Wizards they are pumping INT and Clerics pumping Wis and then a best item for each slot. Some games like UO, Darkfall, etc, did no classes and build whatever you want, but that degenerates into cookie cutter builds too.

It is one of the reasons I love EQ and Vanguard and don't care about all other MMOs. They have multiple items for each slot and each one can have pros and cons and work in different ways. Like one Bard might be stabbing with 2 daggers, and another Bard might have a magic berserker's hammer that casts a spell. Or they might use an instrument and not weapons. It also took so long to get levels and so long to travel, that there was never a "best" of anything. No point finding a guide on "best hunting ground" or whatever because it might be days from where you are. And there might be somewhere else good nearby if you explore. You also had no idea what the best item even was for any slot, and most of your slots were empty, so "the best gloves" might be far away and impossible for you to get, but there might be an ok pair of gloves nearby and a really good cloak. So you focus on that and it takes a week, and then you hopefully hear about some other good item that you can fill another weak or empty slot.

When everyone finally reaches max level, this all degenerates into xyz are best items. But EQ wants that to never happen, so it took a year of obsessed kids playing daily to reach max level. And by that point they released an expansion pack. And they kept that going now, 27 expansions or something now...

Personally I didn't like it. I was one of the obsessed kids who busted his balls reaching max level and getting good items, took a year. Then an expansion came along and raised the goal line. It made everything I had obsolete, and some newbie can come along and get all the best new items same as me. That year of fun but also work, was for nothing. The feeling of progression is ruined, and all that prestige you feel from being the big strong guy, is taken away.

Maybe it depends on your perspective, but mine was that they instantly made everything I worked for into some passing meaningless thing. Items I had for 6 months and treasured, were getting dumped for something better. Which would be ok if that was rare, but now I knew it was going to just be a complete reset every 12 months, makes the whole thing feel less special. Most people didn't feel like that... the expansions all sold well until WoW came along. But I mattered enough to me that I quit for a year or two, and when I went back "the rat race" was far more evident. Everyone was an obsessed zombie rushing to BiS before the next expansion comes and they do the whole race all over again. I'm too lazy for that shit... But I love EQ/Vanguard so I played for years on my own terms and in my own ways.

Most RPGs have things like skills, spells, traits, etc, actual builds, and latitude in terms of how your character plays.

Even a basic game like Diablo 2 has infinitely more build potential and flexibility than something like WoW.

Just look at a class guide on Wowhead. It literally shows your secondary stat priority (which comes exclusively from gear) for muh big numbers, which is the only thing that matters. Talent trees are highlighted and it literally says build this for each class spec and ignore the other shit. Everyone builds the exact same character for each class because they play exactly the same. The rotation even has a clear priority list for the order in which you should push your buttons.

Skills, spells, etc are hardcoded into each spec.

The game is for that reason entirely dependent on encounter design and a handful of utility spells that go into group composition. Encounter design basically boils down to platformer mechanics like avoiding fire patches and pulling physical switches in the room, line-of-sight, or doing zigzags around things called mechanics.

It's only an RPG in the sense that you are managing progression metagame mechanics. The instances themselves could work as separate games with a central lobby for queuing, which is essentially what endgame devolves into anyway.

 

[ADL]

Is there an MMO that actually has character building. World of Warcraft really turns me off with its cookie cutter.

Legendaries, itemization, talents, Covenants are literally just "look at wowhead guide for BiS." The fact that they got rid of the old talent tree because of cookie cutter just to replace it with more systems that just provide more opportunities for potential builds you can safely ignore in the chase to be top DPS/heal.

I literally sometimes just ponder why Blizzard bothers putting such an excessive amount of effort into building these systems just to have everyone select BiS and ignore 90% of all build options. Then I stoop to pondering why they bother to implement classes to begin with when half or greater of the playerbase ends up getting FotM in their given role selection. Just imagine that they actually hardcoded three roles into the game in the form of the holy trinity and then are evidently shocked by every patch cycle when players flood towards the BiS class in each given archetype. Both external and internal balance patches result in nothing more than people switching to the new BiS.

They could literally make the same gameplay by having "damage," "tank," and "healer" classes with few exceptions. Talent choices could be wiped. There would be no distinguishing changes to the way the game is played other than a flood of salt being swept away by a flood of tears by "roleplayers" who do nothing more than play a prebuilt class.

There's always going to a BiS meta that gets 500,000 people using it because someone made a YouTube video about it. It's the unfortunate way of the world where information is much more accessible when that used to be hidden on the forums somewhere and generally go unnoticed. I've always judged MMOs on their ability to make interesting and viable builds with enough variety to surprise people with what you're doing and I've done that several times in The Elder Scrolls Online with some weird synergies that were highly underrated versus the popular builds for my classes.

Typical build is 5/5, 5/5, 2/2 and you can mix and match out of hundreds of sets with their own bonuses and since everything is horizontal progression and they've never raised the gear cap, there's a lot to play around with. Example being

+

+

 

[Ninjerk]

Just start playing DotA, lots of shit can work and it changes every few months.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

meta fotm shit is a result of a focus on raiding rather than it being about the journey

 

[TedNugent]

meta fotm shit is a result of a focus on raiding rather than it being about the journey

There is no journey in WoW other than racing to endgame and grinding metagame progression trees.

Also part of my point is that with holy trinity archetypes of DPS, tank, healer, effectively necessitates optimizing stats for your chosen role.

By contrast, something like Guild Wars 2 does have metabuilds and netlist, but by simply not having those trinity archetypes allows you to build defense, conditions, cleanses, support healing or buffing, crowd control, or damage, albeit it's not the most flexible system in the world. It does at least let you move the dial and create a role within a class.

In WoW you have secondaries that are tailored for your role and optimization is key. On class DPS charts for mythic progression it's assumed everyone is using bis for their chosen spec, and a 10% DPS gap between specs is crippling. Since class utility is almost entirely determined by your base toolkit rather than your talent build, each player effectively becomes a mascot for their chosen spec. The only differentiating factor for one DPS assassination rogue versus another is their stat optimization for DPS (which is pretty much assumed and systematically run through computer sims for each piece of gear) and player ability.

I really think this is a huge drawback of the holy trinity model of DPS-tank-healer.

You can't build a brawler or a support bot, or a DPS with off heals. Your biggest choice is role followed by class followed by spec. Admittedly that does provide latitude in playstyle but doesn't offer any opportunities to invent new character builds or experiment. With some latitude there you could be suboptimal in DPS but still provide adequate group buffs to compensate, for example.

From the word go it's about optimization of spec role until they break down those archetypes.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

meta fotm shit is a result of a focus on raiding rather than it being about the journey

There is no journey in WoW other than racing to endgame and grinding metagame progression trees.

Also part of my point is that with holy trinity archetypes of DPS, tank, healer, effectively necessitates optimizing stats for your chosen role.

By contrast, something like Guild Wars 2 does have metabuilds and netlist, but by simply not having those trinity archetypes allows you to build defense, conditions, cleanses, support healing or buffing, crowd control, or damage, albeit it's not the most flexible system in the world. It does at least let you move the dial and create a role within a class.

In WoW you have secondaries that are tailored for your role and optimization is key. On class DPS charts for mythic progression it's assumed everyone is using bis for their chosen spec, and a 10% DPS gap between specs is crippling. Since class utility is almost entirely determined by your base toolkit rather than your talent build, each player effectively becomes a mascot for their chosen spec. The only differentiating factor for one DPS assassination rogue versus another is their stat optimization for DPS (which is pretty much assumed and systematically run through computer sims for each piece of gear) and player ability.

I really think this is a huge drawback of the holy trinity model of DPS-tank-healer.

You can't build a brawler or a support bot, or a DPS with off heals. Your biggest choice is role followed by class followed by spec. Admittedly that does provide latitude in playstyle but doesn't offer any opportunities to invent new character builds or experiment. With some latitude there you could be suboptimal in DPS but still provide adequate group buffs to compensate, for example.

From the word go it's about optimization of spec role until they break down those archetypes.

modern WoW is shit and directly responsible for the death of support classes in MMOs

 

[Cryomancer]

modern WoW is shit and directly responsible for the death of support classes in MMOs

WoW, not only modern WoW is responsible for the greatest amount of decline in the genre. Before wow, mmos was great as single player games. Ultima Online and Dark Sun online was mechanically and in RPG, great as their SP games. After wow, mmos devolved into a eternal gear farming, cooldown managing chore. And WoW even bought a huge decline in SP games and even table top gaming, like D&D 4e which took a lot of inspiration on wow.

 

[Mortmal]

Wow started as the best thing ever happening to MMo , it was a much more fun mmo than the competition , taking the best from everquest and daoc . Now its the worse thing ever happened to MMOs as it completely killed innovation, everyone copy paste that in hope to make money. Also current devs are tards, like my former guildmates by the way . Die in a fire wow .

 

[TedNugent]

MMOs being even worse than vanilla is not a bullet point in favor of vanilla.

WoW appeared to be the least bad MMO in 2004. Blizzard production values and the IP have a lot to do with the appeal.

I really do not understand the appeal of vanilla beyond that. Someone please explain.

 

[Mortmal]

MMOs being even worse than vanilla is not a bullet point in favor of vanilla.

WoW appeared to be the least bad MMO in 2004. Blizzard production values and the IP have a lot to do with the appeal.

I really do not understand the appeal of vanilla beyond that. Someone please explain.

The appeal of vanilla was obvious after playing a game like everquest, it was taking ages to get a good group going, it was more demanding than some people's job, raids were for the most austitic rejects from the planet , i know what i am speaking about i was in a top tier raid guild, all of this was sorta hellish by the end to be honest . You had corpse recovery, loss of xp backed by an horrible grind, lot of cumbersome unfun mechanisms, pvp was a failure. But it was the first we were pionners , spending the average guy wages in internet provider costs.There was UO too, but it had no such long term staying power.

Wow cut of the bloat , polished like only old blizzard titles were and was well designed , and just plain fun, solo was even possible thats why it was so popular.Also ADSl , high speed internet became available and cheap.There's of course a big dose of nostalgia too