Underrail: The Incline Awakens

grumf · Apr 7, 2021

jackofshadows said:
JKK has oddities on their base which is basically unaccessible otherwise. But what about Free Drones? The gas should dissipate after some time now, isn't it? Or it's about something else? Never join them yet.

JKK has easy access to a train log oddity that is locked behind one of their quests, there is only 9 of them in the game, apparently one is in the gauntlet, but I've never been able to find it (you still have to clear fort apogee to get the train log behind Fraser's office and to get the protectorate insignia from upstairs aswell).

The only way to get the second protectorate can oddity is via the free drones quest in the junkyard, its locked behind one of the doors that are not accessible if you join protectorate

jackofshadows · Apr 7, 2021

Fedora Master said:
jackofshadows said:

Fedora Master said:

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

Click to expand...

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Click to expand...

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.
View attachment 18844

No, this is different because thouse who craft shotgun shells are able to do it right on the spot and move on. For thouse who don't craft them it's useless loot therefore should be simply ignored like many, many other junk. But repair kits are useful for any gun user so you wanna have some with you all the time but its weight was increased to alarming values over the patches. It's still no big deal if you have some mechanics investment (that way you can craft them from any cheap weapons skattered around if needed) and you wanna have mechanics raised for a gun user. And yet its weight is slightly ridiculous.

Fedora Master · Apr 7, 2021

jackofshadows said:
Fedora Master said:

jackofshadows said:

Fedora Master said:

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

Click to expand...

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Click to expand...

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.
View attachment 18844

Click to expand...

No, this is different because thouse who craft shotgun shells are able to do it right on the spot and move on. For thouse who don't craft them it's useless loot therefore should be simply ignored like many, many other junk. But repair kits are useful for any gun user so you wanna have some with you all the time but its weight was increased to alarming values over the patches. It's still no big deal if you have some mechanics investment (that way you can craft them from any cheap weapons skattered around if needed) and you wanna have mechanics raised for a gun user. And yet its weight is slightly ridiculous.

But ammo isn't the most rare consumable out there. If anything I'd say its healing items. Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

Ghulgothas · Apr 7, 2021

Fedora Master said:
But ammo isn't the most rare consumable out there. If anything I'd say its healing items.

That will change once you start making headway into the game post-Depot A. One of the biggest aggregates of dead weight is all the Health Hypos, Bandages and Psi Boosters you never use.

rusty_shackleford · Apr 7, 2021

lmao at pretending most of the people playing this game don't just use cheats to have unlimited weight

Major_Blackhart · Apr 7, 2021

I don't use cheats on this one tbh.

jackofshadows · Apr 7, 2021

Fedora Master said:
Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

Yeah, forgot about that. Probably that's because I don't bother to craft ammo at all although there're some really juicy types of ammo which vendors don't sell. Incendiary for example or contaminated. As for healing items, they are no problem once you get past Depot A. If you build isn't shit, you'll be storing or selling them for the rest of the game.

Nah, even after current run where I had to check one certain vendor for good enough seeker lens like 10 extra times I don't want to install cheat engine let alone checking some other than vendor options. Managing inventory is part of the game.

Tygrende · Apr 7, 2021

Fedora Master said:
Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

Buy them from Leonie in front of Foundry and Colton/Gort/Len/the other junk trader at Junkyard. Junkayrd is especially good because they all sell low quality plates, which are ideal because quality doesn't matter for ammo. All of them are close to fast travel.

normie · Apr 7, 2021

Twiglard said:
normie said:

what's the penalty?

Click to expand...

The game shouldn't communicate to the player -- there's nothing anymore for you in this area, go away.

it doesn't, so...

it must be the perspective of someone who plays the game to collect oddities for their own sake, I've never felt penalised picking up a repeat piece of a shard of obsidian, or compelled to follow certain questlines over others to catch them all - the fucking thing is perfectly designed to liberate me from such concerns, it gives you oddities when it means to, it would have given me an oddity if I'd happened on it sooner by prioritising a different path through the world

the reward isn't xp for the sake of it (play classic, feel your dopamine shoot up with every xp pinata, EXPLORATION REWARDED), the reward is a playing experience kept tight by keeping close to how it was designed and curated by the devs, encouraging varities of problem solving vs being overpowered and killing shit

encounters stick better around level appropriate ranges, area difficulty falls in place as envisioned, I'm punching above or equal to my weight instead of down (ie classic), I'm disincentivised from killing mobs for the sake of hoovering xp, I can take the combat avoidant route without feeling robbed and while keeping my decisions coherent with what I've specced the character in, veteran levels feel appropriately extra and communicate as they should you're pushing beyond the point you should have your shit in order, you are now ascending godhood

Blaine · Apr 7, 2021

" Yeah, that's still too much meta-gaming bullshit for my tastes. Suck my dick and stop climbing under Styg's skirt about it just because he prefers the system he devised.

normie · Apr 7, 2021

ACKKK THERE IS AN ODDITY THAT'S NOT EQUAL ACCESS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

ALL OF MY BUGBEARS ARE METABUGBEARS, SO ALL OF THE GAME IS METAGAME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Blaine · Apr 7, 2021

Perhaps if you bang out enough all-caps hyperbolic sarcasm in response to my consistent analysis of actual facts complete with citations, you'll eventually convince me that a heavy systemic bias in favor of stealth, subterfuge, and even crafting skills—the bias toward the former two of which is increased when choosing Oddity—is an utterly flawless approach to game design.

Moving on to shit I actually care about, this is a cloaking device created from a q153 deflector, q157 stabilizer, and q161 plasma core with Power Management. It can operate for 164 seconds before running out of juice.

Tygrende · Apr 7, 2021

Blaine said:
Tygrende

Ok, I'll bite - lets assume you went with Protectorate/Aegis, do not have lockpick/hacking/pickpocket/stealth and do not wish to turn any neutral/friendly factions hostile. Lets even go for the worst case scenario and assume the pirates remained neutral after negotiations and you do not wish to turn them hostile either. You also maintained perfect relationship with faceless and thus not killed a single one. In other words I'm making all the assumptions necessary to come up with the highest XP deficit possible in this scenario.

Foul Mouth Wash - fair enough, you're not getting it, 2 XP lost.
Aegis Badge - fair enough, 4 XP lost.
Anarchist Symbol - you will get at least a dozen of these while doing the Protectorate questline.
Black Eel Insignia - 6 XP lost.
Pipe Junction - 9 XP lost.
Boats in Bottles - 14 XP lost.
Brzozplno Nebrechega Skontam - you will get this when gassing the drones, no skills required, no neutral/friendly factions turned hostile.
Dread Controller - 17 XP lost.
Infusion Tank - 20 XP lost.
Faceless Mask Fragment - 1 study from the corpse at the Beast's Lair, 25 XP lost.
JKK Pen - 28 XP lost.
Protectorate Insignia - you will get this at Hephaestus Research. As a Free Drone you can also get this without turning any neutral/friendly factions hostile since Protectorate is hostile by default at this point, so this doesn't belong on this list at all.
Praetorian Insignia - 31 XP lost.
Protectorate Dog Tags - you get those during the Renegades quest if you don't have persuasion. But fine, lets assume a peaceful approach - 34 XP lost.
Scrapper Insignia - looted from Elwood, it's a part of the scrappers questline, no one turns hostile. But fine, you intimidated him - 36 XP lost.
Sword Handle - technically obtainable with no skills by using sound distractions, but alright, let count this one as well - 39 XP lost.
Protectorare Can - you find one at Free Drones HQ when gassing them, so only 1 study missed - 41 XP lost.
Old Money - 43 XP lost.

You also miss the tri-monitor blueprint at JKK HQ - 46 XP lost.
You also don't get 2 medals and the Cutura from the Gray Army Base if you do it peacefully - 50 XP lost.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

CHEMS · Apr 7, 2021

Blaine said:
"B-BUT BRAINE YOU ONLY NEED 50/60/70 PIGGPOGGET!!!

Win win situation. Free drinks at DnD and you can un-encumber Al Fabet.

Savecummer · Apr 7, 2021

Tygrende said:
Blaine said:

Tygrende

Click to expand...

Ok, I'll bite - lets assume you went with Protectorate/Aegis, do not have lockpick/hacking/pickpocket/stealth and do not wish to turn any neutral/friendly factions hostile. Lets even go for the worst case scenario and assume the pirates remained neutral after negotiations and you do not wish to turn them hostile either. You also maintained perfect relationship with faceless and thus not killed a single one. In other words I'm making all the assumptions necessary to come up with the highest XP deficit possible in this scenario.

Foul Mouth Wash - fair enough, you're not getting it, 2 XP lost.
Aegis Badge - fair enough, 4 XP lost.
Anarchist Symbol - you will get at least a dozen of these while doing the Protectorate questline.
Black Eel Insignia - 6 XP lost.
Pipe Junction - 9 XP lost.
Boats in Bottles - 14 XP lost.
Brzozplno Nebrechega Skontam - you will get this when gassing the drones, no skills required, no neutral/friendly factions turned hostile.
Dread Controller - 17 XP lost.
Infusion Tank - 20 XP lost.
Faceless Mask Fragment - 1 study from the corpse at the Beast's Lair, 25 XP lost.
JKK Pen - 28 XP lost.
Protectorate Insignia - you will get this at Hephaestus Research. As a Free Drone you can also get this without turning any neutral/friendly factions hostile since Protectorate is hostile by default at this point, so this doesn't belong on this list at all.
Praetorian Insignia - 31 XP lost.
Protectorate Dog Tags - you get those during the Renegades quest if you don't have persuasion. But fine, lets assume a peaceful approach - 34 XP lost.
Scrapper Insignia - looted from Elwood, it's a part of the scrappers questline, no one turns hostile. But fine, you intimidated him - 36 XP lost.
Sword Handle - technically obtainable with no skills by using sound distractions, but alright, let count this one as well - 39 XP lost.
Protectorare Can - you find one at Free Drones HQ when gassing them, so only 1 study missed - 41 XP lost.
Old Money - 43 XP lost.

You also miss the tri-monitor blueprint at JKK HQ - 46 XP lost.
You also don't get 2 medals and the Cutura from the Gray Army Base if you do it peacefully - 50 XP lost.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

normie · Apr 7, 2021

Blaine said:
Perhaps if you bang out enough all-caps hyperbolic sarcasm in response to my consistent analysis of actual facts complete with citations, you'll eventually convince me that a heavy systemic bias in favor of stealth, subterfuge, and even crafting skills—the bias toward the former two of which is increased when choosing Oddity—is an utterly flawless approach to game design.

it's not sarcasm - it's you, oblivious to yourself

they're rewards for a style of play, a course of action; they're a problem to solve, if you care to solve it - you have ways and you have means: the convenience of a skill, the time preference to find it later in the environment, or as consequence of applying your might, or NOT, and you go your merry way unaware and not feeling you're "missing out" - some paths are mutually exclusive, some actions, some skills, some problems are uniquely rewarding to a unique, but marginal, extent, but it ultimately converges toward the same end, so the asymmetry really doesn't come to asymmetric ends

but you have awareness of them, so your compulsive, maximalising ass covets them

underlying your "analysis with citations" (lmao) is the fact you're seething over not having access to things your compulsive style of play doesn't enable you access to without feeling like you're not bangbuckmaxing, in the exact manner that allows the game state to remain the way you want it to remain - flawless systems like Oddity™ couldn't exist if sour grape autists like you were the final say on the matter

Tigranes · Apr 7, 2021

CHEMS said:
Blaine said:

Aside from Oddity being a bit slow for my taste, it's also very meta-gamey. Rummaging through every trash can and pocket, farming some enemy until you max out its oddities, even euthanizing a faction if you lack a way to obtain a major oddity—or scrounging up every single one you can find to prepare for Depot A, for example—none of these are desirable. The two major upsides of Oddity are that it compels you to take risks in order to obtain them and rewards exploration and searching nooks and crannies, but I'd be doing that anyway.

Click to expand...

Not to mention that after lvl 25, you need 62 oddities to get to the next level.

This is a good example of playing the game in a totally specific & unnecessary way, and then assuming that the system forces you to do so.

You can play Dom/Oddity and enjoy it just fine without farming enemies or euthanising factions. You do end up checking every corpse & container you come across, though unlike in many games where I ignore them, UR's crafting mania means you probably do so anyway.

However, it does definitely break down post-Expedition, as it really just wasn't designed for post-Veteran curve.

Blaine · Apr 7, 2021

Tygrende said:
In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

The thing is, you haven't pointed out any real issue with Classic, either, other than it allows players to fairly easily reach level 11-12 before Depot A—and I agree that those levels are significant, but the issue is very easily solved, since pre-Depot A is tightly hemmed in. Classic technically permits idiots to grind XP, but that's not a genuine issue, because we need not design games around the bad behavior of idiots. They can also save-scum, play on Easy, use a hex editor to give themselves a bunch of free stuff, etc.

Conceptually, Oddity does have a certain feel to it. That can't be denied. You will be progressing in part by rummaging through shelves, trash cans, boxes, and pockets, and some people actually don't like to check every point of interest. You will, in short, have to actively seek out these random curiosities and bits of rubbish. Furthermore, it is at least marginally easier to find more of them if you have subterfuge skills. I've played the game that way before, I didn't dislike it, and it was interesting, but I'm not sure I want to do it again.

I mean, for fuck's sake, you literally have to farm cave hoppers to get one of the first oddities. Don't try to pretend that there's any other legitimate reason to farm them. That (alongside stuff like taking a certain level of Pickpocket just for oddities and drinks, which is clear-cut meta-gaming based on extensive foreknowledge) is what I'm referring to when I say I have meta-gaming concerns with the Oddity system. Expedition made the cave hopper oddity accessible in another way, but only after Depot A.

Also, a few oddities I didn't mention are extremely well hidden, so despite the fact that they're technically accessible, it's likely a couple will be missed. Which is fine, I suppose. You forgot to check a corner of a hidden vent, so you'll be waiting longer to get good at shooting things.

lukaszek · Apr 7, 2021

monster oddities do suck indeed. One can complete beast questline and not have full set of blades for example

but then you will reach max lvl anyway

normie · Apr 7, 2021

Blaine said:
I mean, for fuck's sake, you literally have to farm cave hoppers to get one of the first oddities.

hardly

cave hopper meat for the request, cave hopper leather for crafts - you happen on it if you pursue the natural reasons you'd annihilate a hopper for, you can intuit it from other beasts you kill on the regular that they might drop a souvenir - besides, it's a fucking oddity, goofy world knick knack, you're not entitled to one, you're not compelled to get one

HOPPER FARMING, FLAWED DESIGN, MUH 2XP

jackofshadows · Apr 7, 2021

I don't get the obsession with 30 lvl in the first place. 26 is the most important milestone. That said, in my previous run (Oddity) I went into DC either 29 or 28.7lvl, something like that.

Savecummer · Apr 7, 2021

Blaine said:
Tygrende said:

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

Click to expand...

The thing is, you haven't pointed out any real issue with Classic, either, other than it allows players to fairly easily reach level 11-12 before Depot A—and I agree that those levels are significant, but the issue is very easily solved, since pre-Depot A is tightly hemmed in. Classic technically permits idiots to grind XP, but that's not a genuine issue, because we need not design games around the bad behavior of idiots. They can also save-scum, play on Easy, use a hex editor to give themselves a bunch of free stuff, etc.

Conceptually, Oddity does have a certain feel to it. That can't be denied. You will be progressing in part by rummaging through shelves, trash cans, boxes, and pockets, and some people actually don't like to check every point of interest. You will, in short, have to actively seek out these random curiosities and bits of rubbish. Furthermore, it is at least marginally easier to find more of them if you have subterfuge skills. I've played the game that way before, I didn't dislike it, and it was interesting, but I'm not sure I want to do it again.

I mean, for fuck's sake, you literally have to farm cave hoppers to get one of the first oddities. Don't try to pretend that there's any other legitimate reason to farm them. That (alongside stuff like taking a certain level of Pickpocket just for oddities and drinks, which is clear-cut meta-gaming based on extensive foreknowledge) is what I'm referring to when I say I have meta-gaming concerns with the Oddity system. Expedition made the cave hopper oddity accessible in another way, but only after Depot A.

Also, a few oddities I didn't mention are extremely well hidden, so despite the fact that they're technically accessible, it's likely a couple will be missed. Which is fine, I suppose. You forgot to check a corner of a hidden vent, so you'll be waiting longer to get good at shooting things.

now noa u were spitting about stealth for oddities something somethng....

"B-BUT BRAINE YOU ONLY NEED 50/60/70 PIGGPOGGET!!! "
:lol:

Blaine · Apr 7, 2021

jackofshadows said:
I don't get the obsession with 30 lvl in the first place. 26 is the most important milestone. That said, in my previous run (Oddity) I went into DC either 29 or 28.7lvl, something like that.

Agreed, I'd roll through DC at level 26. Which, again, is why I question the Oddity elitism. Two levels make a big difference at Depot A, but not so much later on.

Speaking of which, I'm doing Expedition quite late this time around, and having the time of my life with the native assaults. I've got crawler caltrops carpeting the areas directly in front of the ships, regular caltrops the rest of the way up the lanes, explosive mines as tightly as I can pack them without overlapping, two solid lines of bear traps interspersed with acid blob traps shortly before the natives would reach the aprons up to the Aegis positions, two or three gas grenades doing their thing—and with Grenadier and Spec Ops the grenades barely stop flying. When they do, I hose the snakeys down with suppressive fire with acid bullets, incendiary rounds, fucking acid blobs, you name it. With my infused hopper gear, I can zoom back and forth from the south to the east position at will.

It's like the Fourth of July out there combined with a Nickelodeon sliming from Double Dare. I even have Sure Step, so I can go right over my own caltrops and puddles with ease. Of course, I also try to mow down at least one of their longboat crews as I zoom toward the beach.

But good fucking night, that "BEEDLE-EEDLE-EEDLE! Styg's scripts have declared it's time for you to go deal with another native assault!" still pisses me off. I guess it's supposed to, though, to be fair. To top it all off I'm going to be going pirate soon, so I might as well just flatten the Aegis camp rather than defending it. :lol:

jackofshadows · Apr 7, 2021

That "BEEDLE-EEDLE-EEDLE" sure able to kick out of stealth in the worst time.

Sheepherder · Apr 8, 2021

lukaszek said:
monster oddities do suck indeed. One can complete beast questline and not have full set of blades for example

but then you will reach max lvl anyway

on Dom? Never happened. I always collect the bladeling remains after the beast fight for adrenaline glands and get the full set of oddities.
only creature oddities I struggle with are siphoner ones. but not much, they just take a bit longer to get.

Biggest downside of oddity system? Completing Gauntlet gives oddity XP, so I wanna do it, but it's the Gauntlet, so I don't do it, and it bugs me.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Novice

Magister

Arcane

Arcane

Arcane

Codexia Lord Sodom

Magister

Arbiter

️‍

Cis-Het Oppressor

️‍

Cis-Het Oppressor

Arbiter

Scholar

Latest Doxxer Account

️‍

Arcane

Cis-Het Oppressor

the determinator

️‍

Magister

Latest Doxxer Account

Cis-Het Oppressor

Magister

Augur