Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Nortar]

That depends on the setting. IMO, you should't be alloed to multiclass magical classes. Why? Because one get his power by study. Other by devotion. The origin of his powers should enter in a conflict.

What about multiclassing arcane classes - Bard/Sorc?
Or divine classes - Cleric/Ranger?
What about a wizard who worships a god of Magic and act of spellcasting is a sacred rite to him?

 

[Elex]

This is why D&D multiclassing sucks. Munchkins just can't help themselves.

This is why multiclassing is an optional rule in 5e: the DM can easily say no to prevent cheese and only allow when know the players. Same for feats.

Yeah why bother creating a balanced system with lots of interesting and fun options for multiclassing when you can just say 'no'?

Brilliant.

Because of 3 edition.

 

[Spectacle]

His argument is little retarded, don’t you think? He basically tries to proof that BG3 shouldn’t try to be as close to D&D as possible because of very specific example which nobody gave a fuck about.

His example is also wrong, since that's not exactly how the divination ability works.

Just because a 100% accurate representation of 5e isn't a good idea because a small number of abilities that directly manipulate dice rolls aren't going to work well in a computer game format, it doesn't mean that a 75% accurate implementation is better than 99% percent.

 

[Cryomancer]

, I'd work a Red Wizard NPC into wherever the campaign's taking place and have the player apprentice to him. Of course, he'd have to join the Red Wizards and follow his Master's commands, with all that entails. Choices and consequences, without taking away the character entirely.

Yep. Nice idea. My point is that multiclassing should have story reasons, your idea is much better in allowing a PC RWoT offering drawbacks without being "I wanna be a RwoT just for the increased DC" and being a member of red wizards being relegated to a thing with zero non combat consequences.

What about multiclassing arcane classes - Bard/Sorc?
Or divine classes - Cleric/Ranger?
What about a wizard who worships a god of Magic and act of spellcasting is a sacred rite to him?

That can work or not depending on the character, campaing and etc.

I an very adept of "setting suppremacy", for eg, if I an doing a pathfinder 1e adaptation into conan, I would homebrew rules to make magic far more dangerous and costly and not allow flashy spells like fireball, delay blast fireball and so on. Maybe chain lightning but nothing more flashy than a chain lightning.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah why bother creating a balanced system with lots of interesting and fun options for multiclassing when you can just say 'no'?

Multiclassing is not balanced and IMO goes against the idea of classes ie - specialized "professions".

If I was a DM playing 3.5e and a player wanna to get levels in red wizard of thay, I would force him to go to Thay and study in the red wizard's academy. If the gametakes place here, no problems, if not, I would make his character a NPC for few months and let he play another character in the meanwhile. Someone becoming a red wizard by just killing some mobs makes no sense IMO.

'Multiclassing is not balanced' that's why I said if you balance it then it will be better.

'Goes against the idea of professions' yeah because nobody in real life ever learned two different professions.

'I would force him to go to Thay' what in god's name does taking a prestige class like RWOT have to do with this discussion? We're talking about taking a level in Fighter on your wizard, for example. Not taking a fucking prestige class.

 

[Elex]

is an optional rule in 5e:

Every rule is "optional", the DM can refuse to follow any rule or even homebrew his rule if he sees fit. If he says "no create food/water in my survival setting" that is it.

Of course but when the book say it is both a suggestion to the DM and an help for arguing with players and rulelayers

 

[Xamenos]

Yep. Nice idea. My point is that multiclassing should have story reasons, your idea is much better in allowing a PC RWoT offering drawbacks without being "I wanna be a RwoT just for the increased DC"

I agree completely. My standing policy is that multiclassing and prestige classing requires effort and training, usually from an appropriate NPC, and the players need to tell me early on so I can work this into the campaign without issues. I've been pretty happy with the results.

Of course but when the book say it is both a suggestion to the DM and an help for arguing with players and rulelayers

There's a very simple solution: Don't play with people like that.

 

[underground nymph]

Buildsfags. Buildsfags everywhere.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah cos it's sooo hard to pick up a sword and train with it, whenever anyone does that they automatically start forgetting all the stuff they previously knew, like spells and such.

And it's not like literature and gaming is full of characters who practice both swordplay and magic oh wait

 

[Harthwain]

If I was a DM playing 3.5e and a player wanna to get levels in red wizard of thay, I would force him to go to Thay and study in the red wizard's academy.

Personally, I'd work a Red Wizard NPC into wherever the campaign's taking place and have the player apprentice to him. Of course, he'd have to join the Red Wizards and follow his Master's commands, with all that entails. Choices and consequences, without taking away the character entirely.

This is a good way out for a cRPG. Another way could be allowing the player to create an experienced character, with an agenda that his class/subclass has to fulfill. Could be chosen from a randomized pool or selected. Essentially your "class quest".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah cos it's sooo hard to pick up a sword and train with it, whenever anyone does that they automatically start forgetting all the stuff they previously knew, like spells and such.

And it's not like literature and gaming is full of characters who practice both swordplay and magic oh wait

wow if only there was a way to make a magic knight or an... eldritch knight... instead of hamfisting multi-classing into the game

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah cos it's sooo hard to pick up a sword and train with it, whenever anyone does that they automatically start forgetting all the stuff they previously knew, like spells and such.

And it's not like literature and gaming is full of characters who practice both swordplay and magic oh wait

wow if only there was a way to make a magic knight or an... eldritch knight... instead of hamfisting multi-classing into the game

Advancing both fighter and mage classes simultaneously is a completely different thing to a wizard picking up a sword now and then. I'm simply making the point that you don't need to visit Eldritch Knight school or sell your soul to the devil in order to figure out how to wield a sword properly and also cast a few spells.

Wizard 1/Fighter 1 is not something that requires visiting the Red Wizards of Thay, or going on a special quest to unlock the secret power that will enable you to... swing a sword without forgetting how to cast mage armor.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yeah cos it's sooo hard to pick up a sword and train with it, whenever anyone does that they automatically start forgetting all the stuff they previously knew, like spells and such.

And it's not like literature and gaming is full of characters who practice both swordplay and magic oh wait

wow if only there was a way to make a magic knight or an... eldritch knight... instead of hamfisting multi-classing into the game

Advancing both fighter and mage classes simultaneously is a completely different thing to a wizard picking up a sword now and then. I'm simply making the point that you don't need to visit Eldritch Knight school or sell your soul to the devil in order to figure out how to wield a sword properly and also cast a few spells.

Wizard 1/Fighter 1 is not something that requires visiting the Red Wizards of Thay, or going on a special quest to unlock the secret power that will enable you to... swing a sword without forgetting how to cast mage armor.

Using effectively an sword is not easy. Stances, faint, maintaining the weapon(....) A better analogy would be spears which are far more easy weapons to use. Fighter has some level of formal training, they aren't peasants with more expensive weapons.

2E did multi classing right. You wanna be a fighter/mage? You can. But you will have to level both classes, while a fully dedicated is learning mid level spells, like cloudkill, you are stuck with low level spells. Shadows of Amn caps F/M to lv 13 IE - Circle 6 magic. While pure magicians could reach the 8th circle. And in spell slots in total, on lv cap, a pure mage has 41 spells to use per day. A F/M has only 25.

IMO RPG systems should promote more specialized things since the game is a party game. In fact, I would encourage magic users to have a "field of research" and research spells consistent with this field. Other thing that 2E did right is the idea of "kits". Red Wizard of Thay would be a kit on 2e, not a prestige class. Warlocks/Witches first appeared as Mage kits on complete wizard handbook.

 

[Xamenos]

Advancing both fighter and mage classes simultaneously is a completely different thing to a wizard picking up a sword now and then. I'm simply making the point that you don't need to visit Eldritch Knight school or sell your soul to the devil in order to figure out how to wield a sword properly and also cast a few spells.

Wizard 1/Fighter 1 is not something that requires visiting the Red Wizards of Thay, or going on a special quest to unlock the secret power that will enable you to... swing a sword without forgetting how to cast mage armor.

No, but the average commoner can't just pick up a sword one day and instantly become an L1 fighter. It's the easiest class to qualify for, and it still needs effort, practice and training. Newly created characters got those in the background, but multiclassing mid-campaign can't be as convenient as "oh, a new level. I am now suddenly a wizard despite knowing absolutely nothing about spellcasting up till five minutes ago:.

 

[Delterius]

Advancing both fighter and mage classes simultaneously is a completely different thing to a wizard picking up a sword now and then.

It's almost like one of these ideas is bad.

 

[PanDupa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/mmd1ms/baldurs_gate_3_shouldnt_be_exactly_like_dd_5e/

A lot of the people playing this game are already fans of D&D, particularly 5e, for obvious reasons. And I see a lot of posts here trying to get the game to feel more like D&D. But should it? Should we try to get the game to be as close as possible to D&D? I don't think so.
Larian obviously loves the Forgotten Realms. The depth and flavor that love brings to the game is fantastic. But D&D is a very different game than anything they will produce. Half the fun of D&D is being able to say whatever you want, do whatever you want (with consequences of course), BE the hero. Literally. Your brain is directly transplanted into this mythical figure's body. The world is open to you. That's not something that ANY videogame can replicate. There will always be restrictions you can't overcome, boundaries you cannot cross.
But beyond that, there are mechanics in D&D that I don't think can be easily mimicked in a videogame. The best example of this is probably the Divination Wizard. For those of you who don't know, the Diviner gets to roll two d20's at the start of every day and keep those rolls. He can then substitute those rolls for ANY OTHER ROLL. Enemy rolls a crit? Nope! Substitute that nat 20 for one of the other rolls you have. Ally fails a critical save and is now mind controlled? Nope! Now he rolled a 19. It's a great ability.
Now, think about the mechanics of that going on behind the scenes. EVERY time ANYONE rolls a d20, the Diviner has to chose if he wants to substitute that roll for a different one. Most of the time, he doesn't want to. From a mechanical perspective, the Diviner is asked each time a d20 is rolled, "Wanna swap it?" That just won't work in a videogame. Now you could easily just say that the Diviner only gets to substitute the rolls you make in dialogue, but that is hugely limiting. Probably necessary though, because I don't think there is any way to ask the player EVERY TIME and not have it be super annoying and slow everything down.
Reactions are another example. Something happens and you decide if you want to react with X. Now, X could be an Opportunity Attack, Shield, Riposte, Counterspell, etc. There are a lot of reactions in 5e. Are you going to stop the action whenever that happens and ask the player "Wanna do something?" You could, but that would be very tedious. Ultimately, I think it will just HAVE to work differently.
When you think about it, every D&D game has had to compromise staying true to the source material for the sake of a better experience. The original two Baldur's Gates did it. Neverwinter Nights and NN2 also. Things like real-time combat (or as close as they could), and attacks of opportunity working differently were decisions the designers made because they thought it would make the game better. And I think it did.
I'm all for a game that is based in D&D. The guys over at Larian have shown their passion and dedication to the world of the Forgotten Realms and I love it. But differences will have to happen. We can't ask that every single aspect of the game be the way D&D 5e does it. It just won't work.
And maybe that's a good thing. I have played a lot of D&D already. Something similar but with that Larian spin sounds great to me. Yeah, I may still get slightly annoyed whenever my Magic Missile which is supposed to be unerring hits my friend in the face instead, but I'll get used to it. I want to see what their take on D&D is, not just play more D&D.
P.S. Old Firebolt = best Firebolt

This guy's feedback is worth to Larian as much as mine.

Why even have turns at all, it slows the game. Companions? Losing time to give them orders them instead of focusing just on pc. They should just make BG3 real time slasher where you have to mash one button. On serious note, solasta actually shows that D&D can be implemented properly in video game

 

[Cryomancer]

It's the easiest class to qualify for, and it still needs effort, practice and training

I talk about mid and high level stuff, but would be interesting to play as a lv 0 character. IE - Wanna be a mage? Find a magic user and pledge apprenticeship. Wanna be a fighter? enlist yourself and go train, wanna be a warlock? Find mysterious book, summon a outsider and bargain with that creature for tuition. wanna be a sorc? Drink this weird magical mutagen potion to change part of your DNA into a draconian DNA. Wanna be a barbarian? Become friends with a barbarian tribe and work for then till they accept you.

One game who did it is Gothic series. Mainly G1/2. You don't start the game with magic and weapon proeficiency. In fact, you hold and use a weapon like a shonen animu protagonist, only when you find someone able and willing to teach how to your weapon, you can "combo" and your stance moves to something more practical. This is truth even on mods like RETURNING. Took 14 hours for me to become a necromancer under Xardas apprenticeship. And water mages on my later playtroughts are even harder. You can only become a water magician on chapter 2.

 

[Delterius]

No, but the average commoner can't just pick up a sword one day and instantly become an L1 fighter.

This is what they tell you at fighter school to justify the outrageous (though not quite wizard level) premiums.

 

[Xamenos]

I talk about mid and high level stuff, but would be interesting to play as a lv 0 character. IE - Wanna be a mage? Find a magic user and pledge apprenticeship. Wanna be a fighter? enlist yourself and go train, wanna be a warlock? Find mysterious book, summon a outsider and bargain with that creature for tuition. wanna be a sorc? Drink this weird magical mutagen potion to change part of your DNA into a draconian DNA. Wanna be a barbarian? Become friends with a barbarian tribe and work for then till they accept you.

One game who did it is Gothic series. Mainly G1/2. You don't start the game with magic and weapon proeficiency. In fact, you hold and use a weapon like a shonen animu protagonist, only when you find someone able and willing to teach how to your weapon, you can "combo" and your stance moves to something more practical. This is truth even on mods like RETURNING. Took 14 hours for me to become a necromancer under Xardas apprenticeship. And water mages on my later playtroughts are even harder. You can only become a water magician on chapter 2.

There was an old 2e adventure that did just that. Every player started as an L0 commoner, and their actions during that adventure determined the class they got. It was fun for a session, but it's not very fun to be stuck as a commoner with no abilities for an extended amount of time. Water Mages and the like in Gothic worked more like prestige classes do in DnD.

 

[Larianshill]

They should just make BG3 real time

I think a lot of people on this very site will agree with that part.

 

[PanDupa]

They should just make BG3 real time

I think a lot of people on this very site will agree with that part.

If you mean RTwP even I would agree with that but that still doesn't saves the game from larians writing

 

[Lacrymas]

It's the easiest class to qualify for, and it still needs effort, practice and training

I talk about mid and high level stuff, but would be interesting to play as a lv 0 character.

I am currently in the process of creating a one-shot in which the players play level 0 commoners trying to pay their feudal lords their due.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It's the easiest class to qualify for, and it still needs effort, practice and training

I talk about mid and high level stuff, but would be interesting to play as a lv 0 character.

I am currently in the process of creating a one-shot in which the players play level 0 commoners trying to pay their feudal lords their due.

What say you, Storyfag?

 

[Larianshill]

I am currently in the process of creating a one-shot in which the players play level 0 commoners trying to pay their feudal lords their due.

This doesn't sound horrifying so far.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Just dreadfully boring. I pity Lacrymas' group for having such a DM.