Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

CyberModuled

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
443
Oh shit, if epic closes down, does that mean you can sue them because they won't be able to provide services to the games you have bought? I know in USA that probably won't happen, but in EU the laws for this sort of stuff is stricter, especially in france.
Fortnite is still making about a billion a year in 2020 so they still probably have plenty of money to burn though enough so that they can't be sued for shutting down the store anytime soon but yeah, their general strategy of temporary exclusivity and free games have completely backfired at this point given the bad PR. Surprise, surprise, those things don't keep up a large retention rate of consumers who'll come back to said store once those deals are eventually over and they'll just go back to stores that are better established. Can't wait to see their publishing deals with studios like Remedy go to complete shit on PC when most don't buy them on EGS for being 100% EGS exclusive.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
hahahahahaha

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic...million-on-egs-in-2019-and-2020-respectively/

Epic Games lost almost $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively

A new court filing has revealed some interesting new details about Epic Games and Epic Games Store. According to the filling, Epic has lost around $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively.

This basically means that Epic Games Store has not been profitable these past two years. Epic expects its store to turn a profit in 2023, though this sounds like an optimistic scenario. Furthermore, Epic’s exclusives are not that profitable for the company.

Additionally, EGS has currently more than 160 million registered users and more than 56 million monthly active users.

Lastly, the 12% distribution amount charged by EGS is sufficient to cover the operating costs of EGS.

It will be interesting to see whether EGS will become profitable in 2023. It will also be interesting to see whether Epic will keep signing up new exclusive deals in order to further increase its market share.

Stay tuned for more!
these figures should be surprising to nobody, EGS was always going to be a longterm investment with short term losses.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,870
Company invest into making its way into market spending shitload of money to fight with competition. Some codexers are shocked that company doesn't profit from day 1.

Imho they are doing it right. Fornite will last only X amount of time. But established games store will bring profits for decades.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
The funny fact is not that it hasn't grown profitable from day 1, it's that it's grown 50% less profitable in its second year. It gets even funnier if you consider that the revenue figure, both total and for third-party games, remained the same from 2019 to 2020 - i.e. it has gotten more expensive to upkeep EGS without any increase in sales. Basically, people are only using EGS to get free games - increasingly more so - and don't bother to buy anything.

You just know there's an easier/shorter way of saying "We have had absolutely no growth as our Excl000sive buying spree sputtered to a halt and our bribes didn't incentivize enough people to actually buy anything."

Epic Games today offered an update on the growth of the Epic Games Store. Launched in December of 2018, the store to-date has racked up $680 million in spending from 108 million PC customers.

While much of that total can be accounted for by Epic's own hit Fortnite, the company noted that $251 million has been spent by players on third-party PC games.

Also infographics.
zgL1yAn.jpg
This surge in player growth has also led to an increase in purchasing and play time! In 2020, PC customers on the Epic Games Store spent over $700M of which third party games represented 37% at $265M.

Check out more year-end results:

epic-games-store-year-in-review-2020-1920x6426-c965be855073.jpg
 

flabbyjack

Arcane
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
2,592
Location
the area around my keyboard
The funny fact is not that it hasn't grown profitable from day 1, it's that it's grown 50% less profitable in its second year. It gets even funnier if you consider that the revenue figure, both total and for third-party games, remained the same from 2019 to 2020 - i.e. it has gotten more expensive to upkeep EGS without any increase in sales. Basically, people are only using EGS to get free games - increasingly more so - and don't bother to buy anything.
Maybe if they had some decent games or pushed some exclusives people really want, like Mechwarrior.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,750
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
It seems pretty clear that as soon as they have the audience they want they'll drop the 12% thing.

Almost like running a big digital store has high upkeep.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
902
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
lordsweeney2.png

$454 million buys a lot of cocaine and hookers, so let's take a moment to appreciate the sacrifices Saint Sweeney made for us to enjoy weekly free games and to make rabid Valve fanbois really butthurt.

Oh shit, if epic closes down, does that mean you can sue them because they won't be able to provide services to the games you have bought?
Wait... are you implying people actually BUY games on the Epic Store? :hahano:
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,484
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Longer summary: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...mes-store-exclusives-in-its-war-against-steam

Epic is losing hundreds of millions of dollars in its war against Steam
Apple wonders whether the EGS will ever be profitable.

In its bid to take on Steam with the Epic Games Store, the company behind Fortnite is burning through hundreds of millions of dollars on exclusives and free games.

The Epic Games Store releases free games every week, and has snapped up a number of eye-catching PC launch exclusives since it went live in December 2018.

Of course, it's expected that providing so many free games and timed exclusives would cost Epic cold hard cash - but the sheer numbers at play are eye-watering, and it's all spent at a loss.
Court documents published this week as part of Epic's high-profile legal battle against Apple reveal Epic committed $444m in minimum guarantees for 2020 alone.

A minimum guarantee is an advance paid to a publisher or developer whether or not the game itself makes enough money to claw the advance back. An example is the €9.49m 505 parent company Digital Bros received from Epic for PC exclusivity for Remedy's Control.

It's a huge amount of money to pay out to developers for minimum guarantees last year, but it's something moneybags Epic is willing to do in order to take on Steam and its 30 per cent cut of revenue.

As Epic boss Tim Sweeney said in June 2019: "We believe exclusives are the only strategy that will change the 70/30 status quo at a large enough scale to permanently affect the whole game industry."

According to Apple's summary of the arguments it's bringing to court next month, and citing depositions from Epic executives, the Epic Games Store is unprofitable. Apple contends it "will not be profitable for at least multiple years, if ever".

Apple's filing reveals Epic lost around $181m on the Epic Games Store in 2019, and it projected to lose around $273m on the store in 2020. Even with "significant" growth, revenue for last year was projected at $401m. Epic has confirmed $700m was spent by PC players on the Epic Games Store in 2020, although only $265m of that was spent by players on third-party PC games in the Epic Games Store. So its $444m in minimum guarantees for 2020 alone is a big loss-leader.

Apparently Epic has admitted this trend will continue in the immediate future, and Epic projects to lose around $139m on the Epic Games Store in 2021. These are all "unrecouped costs" resulting from Epic's attempt to grow the Epic Games Store. That includes at least $330m in unrecouped costs from minimum guarantees alone. Ouch. That's a lot of games that missed their minimum sales target.

Here's the bombshell: "at best, Epic does not expect EGS to have a cumulative gross profit before 2027." Then: "As a result, Epic has funded, and must continue to fund, EGS through funding and capital raised by other parts of its business, which have been 'incredibly profitable' for 'several years'." That'll be Fortnite, then.

jpg

The Epic Games Store offers new free games every week.

Epic has had its say on these points, of course. In its response, the company said it expects the Epic Games Store to become profitable by 2023 - four years earlier than Apple's claim.

"EGS is not yet profitable at its current scale and stage of development because it has front-loaded its marketing and user-acquisition costs to gain market share," the filing reads.

"EGS's 12 per cent transaction fee is sufficient to cover the variable costs of running EGS, including payment processing, customer service and bandwidth."

Ultimately, the points about the Epic Games Store's profitability are a minor part of a sweeping court case that has broader strokes. Epic is after Apple because it claims the company monopolises the iOS app distribution market and the iOS in-app payment solutions market within its iOS ecosystem.

Apple is putting all it can into protecting the way it operates the App Store - and of course its cut of revenue. But it's also framing Epic's legal battle as a nefarious attempt to revive interest in Fortnite.

In its filing, Apple claims that between 2018 and 2019, Fortnite's average monthly active users and revenues declined. There's a lot of redacted information here, so we don't know the exact numbers. But, according to Apple, Epic launched a "pre-planned media strategy" called "Project Liberty", retaining a public relations firm in 2019 to execute its plan.

"These trends were consistent with Epic's observations that gamers were growing dissatisfied with Fortnite," reads the filing.

"The company understood that Fortnite was late in the video-game life cycle. And it took note internally when "#RIPFornite" was trending on Twitter. Epic knew these trends were not a blip; the company expected the declining interest and revenue to continue.

"As a later board presentation revealed, Epic coalesced around a goal: to revive and reinvigorate Fortnite by turning it out to developers to create new content. This would make Fortnite a platform and Epic the middleman. But in order for this new business model to succeed, Epic needed to find a way to cut the commissions charged by platform providers so Epic could 'share a majority of profit with creators'. According to Epic, 'Platform Fees' posed 'an Existential Issue' to the company's plans for Fortnite."

The result of all this: Project Liberty.

Epic denies all this, of course, which you can read about in its response. Epic vs Apple goes to trial in May.
 
Last edited:

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,966
They also only had a 5% increase in revenue while steam had 20-30% increase last year.And that was in the most profitable time for digital products.
Oh,and they are dropping active users per month as well.
Oh,and by their own words they will be profitable(not ever gonna return those millions back regardless of future profits) by 2023-2027.

There are investments and then there is buying a truck of cat food for your decomposing cat.
The cat food might actually be a better investment then egs.
 

lycanwarrior

Scholar
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
1,209
hahahahahaha

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic...million-on-egs-in-2019-and-2020-respectively/

Epic Games lost almost $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively

A new court filing has revealed some interesting new details about Epic Games and Epic Games Store. According to the filling, Epic has lost around $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively.

This basically means that Epic Games Store has not been profitable these past two years. Epic expects its store to turn a profit in 2023, though this sounds like an optimistic scenario. Furthermore, Epic’s exclusives are not that profitable for the company.

Additionally, EGS has currently more than 160 million registered users and more than 56 million monthly active users.

Lastly, the 12% distribution amount charged by EGS is sufficient to cover the operating costs of EGS.

It will be interesting to see whether EGS will become profitable in 2023. It will also be interesting to see whether Epic will keep signing up new exclusive deals in order to further increase its market share.

Stay tuned for more!
these figures should be surprising to nobody, EGS was always going to be a longterm investment with short term losses.

Same with Microsoft Gamepass. Even from their own mouths, it doesn't make much money or probably even loses money.
 
Unwanted

Savecummer

Latest Doxxer Account
Edgy
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
330
This is GREATE news.
Look at it this way, kids,
FORTNITE is financing (indie)gamedev!
Money out of the pockets of kids - into the pockets of Tim - into the pockets of hostile publishers and indie devs - into the pockets of YOU.
Lets enjoy it while Fortnite lasts. How long did PUBG live?
 
Unwanted

Savecummer

Latest Doxxer Account
Edgy
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
330
PUBG Passes $4 Billion Grossed—$2.6 Billion This Year Alone
Currently 2020’s top-grossing mobile game, PUBG Mobile has had astonishing success this year. It’s already picked up $2.6 billion, bringing lifetime player spending to $4.3 billion. Monetized successfully through its battle pass system—known as the Royale Pass—the title is easily one of the most successful mobile games of all time.

ohno...
im so disconnected from the average subhuman shiteater i cant even comprehend anyfuckingthing happening around me...
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,548
There was a time when free game giveaways and timed exclusives would've taken the market by storm. In current reality both are pretty whatever.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
17,164
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There was a time when free game giveaways and timed exclusives would've taken the market by storm. In current reality both are pretty whatever.

This combined with general shitty releases have devalued games a lot for me. Paying 60 bucks a couple of years ago was no real problem if it was something I truly wanted to try, but nowadays 30 bucks is stretching it by a lot and usually it's not even worth that price.
 

Fishy

Savant
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
398
Location
Ireland
There was a time when free game giveaways and timed exclusives would've taken the market by storm. In current reality both are pretty whatever.

Game devaluation is a thing, and while the EGS is far from the only culprit, they have taken it to an entire new level. Between that and subscriptions like gamepass, there's a generation growing up for which paying for a game will feel completely alien.
 
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,203
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Yep, I pretty much "grew up" from torrenting everything in 2000s when I was a broke-ass high school/university student to paying for everything nowadays since I don’t have the patience to fiddle with cracks anymore and dropping some cash on stuff I enjoy is no longer an issue.

By the way, while I don’t follow the "scene" anymore, it would seem to me that torrenting is not what it used to be say a decade ago. It looks like that you even have to use Duckduckgo to even find any torrent sites, so the bar is getting higher nowadays. You can get tons of stuff with huge discounts on Steam very comfortably anyway, so I would actually expect piracy to be much less of a thing than it used to be.
 

lycanwarrior

Scholar
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
1,209
There was a time when free game giveaways and timed exclusives would've taken the market by storm. In current reality both are pretty whatever.

Game devaluation is a thing, and while the EGS is far from the only culprit, they have taken it to an entire new level. Between that and subscriptions like gamepass, there's a generation growing up for which paying for a game will feel completely alien.

The move from physical to digital copies is also likely a contributor IMHO. Physical products have a tangibility factor that makes them more valuable for a lot people.

On the reddit EGS forums, it is not uncommon for people to complain about the FREE GAMEs that they are getting if it is not AAA :argh:

The free giveaways create dependency and entitlement in people, kinda like welfare haha :oops:

There's old saying:

"People always want something for nothing"

The corollary to that also equally applies:

"People don't value things that are freely given away"
 

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
Company invest into making its way into market spending shitload of money to fight with competition. Some codexers are shocked that company doesn't profit from day 1.

Imho they are doing it right. Fornite will last only X amount of time. But established games store will bring profits for decades.
At this point it still seems like an uphill battle. There was a time when exclusives could win the field single-handed, but in this case they should've been one piece in a multi pronged attack, their effectiveness maximized with a supported charge. I thought the whole point was for the store to sell exclusives, and exclusives to sell the store, but they've taken so long in providing dirt basic functionality. The list of features still curiously absent from the Epic Store includes a shopping cart and gifting, both of which would primarily benefit Epic themselves and have a tangible impact on profits. Every other business has a robust pipeline to keep the cash flowing, and here's Epic running themselves ragged to scoop up loose change while wearing boxing gloves.
 

flabbyjack

Arcane
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
2,592
Location
the area around my keyboard
most of the games they give away are trash and the ones that aren't are missing DLCs aka the other 60% of the game
For the first year, the free games were bangin. I got:
GTA 5
RollerCoaster Tycooon 3
Galactic Civilizations 3
Total War: Troy
Civilization 6
The Talos Principle
FTL
Borderlands 2
ARK
Amnesia: The Dark Descent
Darksiders 2
Just Cause 4
All 3 Shadowrun Games (Can't remember if this was free)
Tons of shovelware

ofc now its mostly trash.
 

ultimanecat

Arcane
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
580
Some of these self-owns, man...

-Paid $12 per new EGS sign up giving away indie darling Celeste.
-
Cost Epic nearly as much to give away Subnautica as it did to give away the entire Batman Arkham collection.
-If you divide the amount paid to a developer/publisher by the number of copies claimed, you get developers earning anywhere from around 30 cents a copy all the way down to pennies.

Chart doesn’t include most of the biggest AAA giveaways. For indies, it seems like you’re lucky to earn a couple hundred grand to be given away on EGS.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,999
Chart doesn’t include most of the biggest AAA giveaways. For indies, it seems like you’re lucky to earn a couple hundred grand to be given away on EGS.
Lucky would be getting close to a million for an indie game that came out half a decade ago, which is the case for a few of the titles listed. Inside for 800k, Enter the Gungeon for 700k.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom