Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Bara]

I have heard that WoTC was removing attribute penalties from certain classes

Races you mean and yep long old news at this point. But I mean multiple options to deal with it.

Just accept it, find a dm or dm it yourself with the old rules, or just play a retro-clone.

Or strike a balance between old and new if you can think up one.

 

[Mazisky]

I have heard that WoTC was removing attribute penalties from certain races, allowing a orc wizard to be as good as a human wizard born in Glantri... I miss the TSR times. Manlets like Dwarfs and brainlets like Orcs could't be glorious magic users and gnomes could only be of certain "kits" like illusionists and alchemists.

Don't worry, give it some years and WOTC will make all white humans unable to chose any allignment other than chaotic evil, and all females characters will get a permanent boost to all attributes by 50%.

 

[Cryomancer]

I have heard that WoTC was removing attribute penalties from certain races, allowing a orc wizard to be as good as a human wizard born in Glantri... I miss the TSR times. Manlets like Dwarfs and brainlets like Orcs could't be glorious magic users and gnomes could only be of certain "kits" like illusionists and alchemists.

Don't worry, give it some years and WOTC will make all white humans unable to chose any allignment other than chaotic evil, and all females characters will get a permanent boost to all attributes by 50%.

Chaotic characters tends to be individualistic and we all know that individualism = fascism for the woke cult.

In fact, I would't doubt if WoTC decides to destroy all nobility, monarchy, magocracy, theocracy, in FR and transform Faerun in a woketardland land where the unique God which you are allowed to worship is the equality God and every country is or socialism or social democracy, where doubting the word of a woman is punished by death but assassins deserve resocialization and leveling above certain level is prohibited in name of the equality.

 

[Mazisky]

I have heard that WoTC was removing attribute penalties from certain races, allowing a orc wizard to be as good as a human wizard born in Glantri... I miss the TSR times. Manlets like Dwarfs and brainlets like Orcs could't be glorious magic users and gnomes could only be of certain "kits" like illusionists and alchemists.

Don't worry, give it some years and WOTC will make all white humans unable to chose any allignment other than chaotic evil, and all females characters will get a permanent boost to all attributes by 50%.

Chaotic characters tends to be individualistic and we all know that individualism = fascism for the woke cult.

In fact, I would't doubt if WoTC decides to destroy all nobility, monarchy, magocracy, theocracy, in FR and transform Faerun in a woketardland land where the unique God which you are allowed to worship is the equality God and every country is or socialism or social democracy, where doubting the word of a woman is punished by death but assassins deserve resocialization and leveling above certain level is prohibited in name of the equality.

The Faggotten Realms

 

[Lacrymas]

Chaotic characters tends to be individualistic and we all know that individualism = fascism for the woke cult.

Yes, finding an identity that works best for you as an individual and trying to get recognition for it is the opposite of individualism. At least know your pretend enemy.

 

[The_Mask]

and all females characters will get a permanent boost to all attributes by 50%

Pray they'll be as stupid as to trivialize the game for the women playing the game; but I doubt they will.

What's worse, most game designers today, especially in the mainstream market, are utterly terrorized at the mere notion to antagonize this casual audience while trying to stay true to a sensible design.

This has been happening since the dawn of videogames. Every single time when someone got big and complacent, someone else (usually smaller) came along and snapped everyone back into shape. It's been a cycle going on for almost 40 years now, and I have faith that if Larian ever forgets this, there will come a smaller studio to fix the problem.

WOTC will make all white humans unable to chose any allignment other than chaotic evil

Only if you're roleplaying as a game developer stuck in a fantasy world. Or game journo.

 

[Cryomancer]

Most people believe that chaotic evil = retarded evil aka "hur dur, lets burn this village in exchange of nothing". Meredoth(Not I, the Dark Lord) was a very interesting chaotic evil character. He got a nobility title as commonly given to high level Alphatian wizards, he took the barony only to get more resources for magical research. When a great famine impacted his lands, the peasants wound't let him do his magical research in peace and his solution as a chaotic evil character? Transform everyone into undead, so they will no longer need food. It brought the attention of the dark powers and now he is a Dark Lord in ravenloft.

Strahd is Lawful Evil. He governs with iron first. Meredoth is Chaotic Evil. He don't care about ruling. Just don't mess with his private propriety. It is clear among the conflict between Devils and Demons. Demons are far stronger than Devils, even on 5e with Asmodeus becoming a God, but Demons can't just take the nine hells cuz they constantly plot one against another and have zero organization.

 

[Desiderius]

As I was just wasting time arguing on the Larian forum few hours ago, the more I think about it the more popular consensus seems to be the BANE of competent game design when it comes to make a proper RPG (and other genres too, frankly).

People hate restrictions even when they make perfect sense and enhance immersion. Hell, even when they actually improve things mechanically (see XCOM 2 and the endless bitching about "timers", no matter how trivial it was to remove them if you were too mentally impaired to learn how to deal with them).

They want immediate convenience above quality of experience.
They want flashy question marks you could spot from a mile above quest givers, instant fast travel from anywhere to everywhere taking away any sense of scale and pace from a game world; they want minimaps telling them whatever is going on on a 50-meters radius and omniscient GPS driving them with military-grade precisions on their targets without a single need to having to figure out a thing by context.
They complain that "pen & paper rules are not suited for videogames" omitting how most of the videogame-born rulesets are half-baked simplistic trash entirely focused on crunching big numbers for the sake of it (with very rare exceptions like Darklands, which one again tried to mimic a pen & paper feeling).

What's worse, most game designers today, especially in the mainstream market, are utterly terrorized at the mere notion to antagonize this casual audience while trying to stay true to a sensible design.

Except when it comes to the Larian toilet chain. In that case consensus is right the the mechanic is utter garbage that needs to be thrown in a volcano with its creator.

They don’t know what the fuck they want. If they did they wouldn’t need to hire Larian to tell them in the first place.

 

[Desiderius]

I have heard that WoTC was removing attribute penalties from certain races, allowing a orc wizard to be as good as a human wizard born in Glantri... I miss the TSR times. Manlets like Dwarfs and brainlets like Orcs could't be glorious magic users and a gnomes could only be of certain "kits" like illusionists and alchemists.

Tolkien’s races weren’t meant to map onto human races in the first place. Orcs are corrupted Elves, not some separate race. There’s enough diversity within the world of Men or Elves themselves to account for contemporary races.

But WotC is itself run by illiterate lesser Orcs in Hasbro suits these days so of course they trash what they don’t even begin to understand.

 

[aloeh]

I'm playing, finished the goblin fort. Still have much more game to play?

I'm liking so far because I liked of divinity 2. The feeling is the same, hated the dice,
I'm with 16 of wisdom had to reload 6 times to pass in one skill check. But this seems bulshit os dnd 5e.

Much better the old way, have the stat, have the option.

 

[Larianshill]

see XCOM 2 and the endless bitching about "timers"

Timers were bullshit, though. I enjoyed reinforcement mechanic from Chimera Squad much more, and it would make much more sense there from the gameplay perspective too. In fact, I enjoyed Chimera Squad better in almost all aspects.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

War of the Chosen can comfortably sit squatting for hours while shitting over Chimera Squad until there’s nothing more than sterilized bowels.

 

[Harthwain]

Timers were bullshit, though. I enjoyed reinforcement mechanic from Chimera Squad much more, and it would make much more sense there from the gameplay perspective too. In fact, I enjoyed Chimera Squad better in almost all aspects.

I am not a big fan of timers, but I see their value as something that springs you into a decisive action. Imagine playing Invisible, Inc. without more trouble coming your way if you linger.

 

[jackofshadows]

Timers were bullshit, though.

W/o timers every mission could turn into easy but tedious slog. I remember how I methodically cleaned 1 by 1 pod in the first nuXCOM on highest difficulty because well, 2 pods most likely meant casualties if not wipe. It was still satisfactory but not highly enjoyable experience. That said, I enjoyed Chimera's reinforcement mechanic, too.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

They want immediate convenience above quality of experience

I guess more people want to play games with their brains switched off than on.

 

[Cael]

They want immediate convenience above quality of experience

I guess more people want to play games with their brains switched off than on.

You are pre-supposing that millennials and zoomers have a single brain cell between them to turn on.

Stop that.

 

[Swen]

As I was just wasting time arguing on the Larian forum few hours ago, the more I think about it the more popular consensus seems to be the BANE of competent game design when it comes to make a proper RPG (and other genres too, frankly).

People hate restrictions even when they make perfect sense and enhance immersion. Hell, even when they actually improve things mechanically (see XCOM 2 and the endless bitching about "timers", no matter how trivial it was to remove them if you were too mentally impaired to learn how to deal with them).

They want immediate convenience above quality of experience.
They want flashy question marks you could spot from a mile above quest givers, instant fast travel from anywhere to everywhere taking away any sense of scale and pace from a game world; they want minimaps telling them whatever is going on on a 50-meters radius and omniscient GPS driving them with military-grade precisions on their targets without a single need to having to figure out a thing by context.
They complain that "pen & paper rules are not suited for videogames" omitting how most of the videogame-born rulesets are half-baked simplistic trash entirely focused on crunching big numbers for the sake of it (with very rare exceptions like Darklands, which one again tried to mimic a pen & paper feeling).

What's worse, most game designers today, especially in the mainstream market, are utterly terrorized at the mere notion to antagonize this casual audience while trying to stay true to a sensible design.

Except when it comes to the Larian toilet chain. In that case consensus is right the the mechanic is utter garbage that needs to be thrown in a volcano with its creator.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Could you quickly update me on the currently trending reasons why this game is shit? I've been out of the loop for a while.

 

[Larianshill]

1) Muh RTWP
2) Muh toilet chain
3) Muh cuck romances
4) Muh HP bloat
5) Muh larian writing
6) Muh bonus actions
7) Muh originals
8) Muh

 

[Lacrymas]

6) is legit, though.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

6) is legit, though.

Most of them are, really.
Except the first, which is for tossers and suckers.

 

[Gargaune]

Most of them are, really.

Yes.

Except the first, which is for tossers and suckers.

I thought we were friends.

 

[Cryomancer]

I'm liking so far because I liked of divinity 2. The feeling is the same, hated the dice,

Larian target audience with BG3 in nutshell.

Timers were bullshit, though.

Disagreed. Time is important on TT RPG's and should be important in CRPG's. If Trolls are attacking your kingdom and you are in the other side of the world doing nothing, deal with the consequences. On M&M VI, to be promoted to great druid, you need to go in a place during the solstice or equinox. And your characters ages.

1) Muh RTWP
2) Muh toilet chain
3) Muh cuck romances
4) Muh HP bloat
5) Muh larian writing
6) Muh bonus actions
7) Muh originals
8) Muh

Except by the first one, everything is valid.

• 1 - RtWP

5e has a lot of abilities that hardly can be translated to RtWP. 2e in other hands, had OPTIONAL rules for everyone declaring his actions and taking it at the same time. I still love 2E TB adaptations like Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager, but I don't mind RtWP. 5e is different. But I an not seeing anyone advocating for RtWP recently here. Most people on codex prefer TB and most people who bash TB only played RtWP D&D adaptations, never touched the glorious SSI adaptations. They think that "bg3 sucks so all TB adaptations sucks" when half of a hour playing a SSI game would change his mind.

• 2 - Toilet chain

What? Is the awful barrelmancy?

• 3 - Romances

Yes, romances sucks on BG3. WoTR will give romanceable succubus companions with a redeeming quest-line and route. Not only romances sucks on BG3. All companions sucks. You have the noble warlock at lv 1, the wizard with a netherese artifact also on lv 1.

• 4 - hp bloat

It is awful. The worst thing of BG3. Is not that "hur dur is hard", is that is boring. Can you name one game where a warlock after dozens of hours playing, can't OHK a mere low level goblin with his eldritch blast? 5e already nerfed non evocation spells, and I an talking about mostly group support spells too, not only spells like disintegrate. Polymorth no longer can be a amazing buff on the fighter. Nor stoneskin. And many of the enchantment spells which 5e destroyed, BG3 destroyed then even harder with the hp bloat.

While other games like Solasta, is implementing sub classes like Shock Arcanist which are cool as an Wizard fan, Larian is doing everything that they can to make Wizard be the most boring class possible. Hell, they can't even do a firebolt cantrip right.

• 5 - Larian Writing

Another valid complain. Larian writing is awful.

• 6 - Bonus action

Another valid complain. Shove and disengage as bonus actions is ridiculous and take out the decision of attacking, casting a spell or disengaging out of the game.

• 7 - Originals

Yes, Originals are much better games. Better ruleset, better companions, better writing, better anything but graphics and music.

• Muh

The unique thing which I can praise BG3 is graphics and music.


But one thing which I hate on this game, is the awful single summon limit. You can't have familiar + mage hand. Larian will destroy necromancy more than 5e necromancy already destroyed. And yes, necromancy is trash on 5e. Only low CR undead and no OHK spells. In fact, if we pick a high CR monster like a Lich and replace his necromancer spells for evocation spells, he becomes exponentially stronger. Just trade the lame power word kill for meteor swarm and see him who could lose to a mid level party obliterating the same party in a single round.

 

[Shrimp]

I imagine toilet chain refers to the way movement is tied to how the character portraits are chained together. It's unnecessarily clunky and I don't know why Larian continuously insists on not just using drag select like every other game does.

 

[Lacrymas]

I think it's tied to how the engine controls a character. Maybe it's not even possible to control two at once.