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HITMAN, the new episodic Hitman - GOTY Edition

oldbonebrown

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Jun 2, 2017
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I just wish that there was more to the game. There's so much standing around waiting with nothing to do or walking through empty rooms, and everything that you do get to do is on a gameplay level very basic - before you know the map well enough to speed through it.
It feels like I'm playing only one character in Shadow Tactics.
 
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Cadmus

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I just wish that there was more to the game. There's so much standing around waiting with nothing to do or walking through empty rooms, and everything that you do get to do is on a gameplay level very basic - before you know the map well enough to run through it. It feels like I'm playing only one character in Shadow Tactics.
That's what you get when everything is game-ified. Autists think that a hitman level that takes 3 hours to learn and you have to perform 200 tasks perfectly to get the perfect rating is where it's at.
Wrong!
That should be only a part of the game. Some other part should be like the first mission in Hitman 1 - you go to a roof of your choosing, shoot a guy and walk away. Simple and cool as fuck. Music plays, credits roll, ready for the next mission.
The episodic thing is shit because everything becomes an autist simulator, you aren't designing a game with a flow and atmosphere, you are designing autist puzzles to be released each month and they have to last that month until the next one comes around.
You are not playing an elite assassin. You are solving puzzles in an abstract area designed to provide you with tools to solve it.
 

DalekFlay

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Every complaint in this thread is founded on not getting what the game is actually about. It's a puzzle game at its heart, it's about figuring out how to pull off the challenges. Yes there's a lot of walking around and waiting, because you have to observe people's routines and find certain windows to pull things off. If that's not your bag then the game simply wasn't made for you. You can't turn it into Thief or Splinter Cell, that's fundamentally not what it was designed to be.
 

Cadmus

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Every complaint in this thread is founded on not getting what the game is actually about. It's a puzzle game at its heart, it's about figuring out how to pull off the challenges. Yes there's a lot of walking around and waiting, because you have to observe people's routines and find certain windows to pull things off. If that's not your bag then the game simply wasn't made for you. You can't turn it into Thief or Splinter Cell, that's fundamentally not what it was designed to be.
Yes, you can't turn it into a game about a hitman because it's a puzzle game. If you want a game about being a hitman then go get fucked.
 

oldbonebrown

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What's there to figure out? You roam around the map picking things up and then either overhear someone loudly say what you should do or you find some obvious point of interaction. Toss a coin over someones shoulder and take their pants and that's all there's to it.

However I'm enjoying the escalation contracts quite a bit. When you have to kill more people in awkward ways it becomes more involved and more fun.
 

DalekFlay

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What's there to figure out? You roam around the map picking things up and then either overhear someone loudly say what you should do or you find some obvious point of interaction. Toss a coin over someones shoulder and take their pants and that's all there's to it.

You have to figure out how to accomplish the challenges, that's the core of the game. If you just play to beat every level the game is like 5 hours long.

It looked cool at first but then there are "opportunites" whoever came up with this crap p much ruined the game, too bad really

You can turn them off, and I highly recommend doing so.
 

Dzupakazul

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Jun 16, 2015
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Even the older games had missions with very obvious, downright telegraphed initial approaches, though. You could just run through all the missions picking your first outing, and complete the campaign in a few hours. You could argue that the Silent Assassin rating was the original "autistic challenge" since it forced you to either adhere to a very limited set of restrictions or, if you weren't inclined to do that, find the one "intended" way to get the SA rating and follow it to the letter, especially since the SA rating also usually restricted your ability to use the cool guns (including ballistic rifles or a freaking minigun). Lots of people played Hitman in a way where the disguise is only there so that you can infiltrate the enemy's headquarters and gun everyone down.

Some other part should be like the first mission in Hitman 1 - you go to a roof of your choosing, shoot a guy and walk away. Simple and cool as fuck. Music plays, credits roll, ready for the next mission.
The Hitman community generally kept replaying and talking about the games simply because even the most barebones mission could be done in a variety of ways and you could always account in some way for fuckups. You are allowed to take a knife, a wire, a pistol and a sniper rifle to the mission you're describing, and you can also take body armor. Nothing says you can't take a pistol, stand behind a corner and gun the target down as soon as he emerges from his car. If you want to snipe, you can find a better, more efficient hiding spot than the rooftop, too. Maybe you can cause a ruckus, shoot down the helicopter gunner, pick up his M60, and go on a killing spree. All Hitman games heavily iterate on the concept of adapting to and playing with the environment, and a lot of people like the fact that you can do every single mission in some different way.
 

DalekFlay

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Even the older games had missions with very obvious, downright telegraphed initial approaches, though. You could just run through all the missions picking your first outing, and complete the campaign in a few hours. You could argue that the Silent Assassin rating was the original "autistic challenge" since it forced you to either adhere to a very limited set of restrictions or, if you weren't inclined to do that, find the one "intended" way to get the SA rating and follow it to the letter, especially since the SA rating also usually restricted your ability to use the cool guns (including ballistic rifles or a freaking minigun). Lots of people played Hitman in a way where the disguise is only there so that you can infiltrate the enemy's headquarters and gun everyone down.

There's lots of ways to get silent assassin in this new series, but I feel like suit only is what you're talking about now. There's really only a few routes to do it, sometimes only one route, because the levels are so designed around changing outfits. I don't even really enjoy suit only, because it's so restrictive.
 

Dzupakazul

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There's lots of ways to get silent assassin in this new series, but I feel like suit only is what you're talking about now. There's really only a few routes to do it, sometimes only one route, because the levels are so designed around changing outfits. I don't even really enjoy suit only, because it's so restrictive.
There is a lot (and I mean, a lot) of ways to get Silent Assassin in every game in the series (except Codename 47 for obvious reasons); aside from the obvious ones, there are the not-so-obvious ones, and then there are ones that border on complete insanity. Many of the ones in the latter category are speedruns. I think it's a happy accident, but the games have been historically rather flexible in that regard; it's just that the less patient player who just wants to get a good rating will likely only see the most "obvious" ways to kill.

Suit Only is also an interesting case because it wasn't formally a challenge until Hitman: Absolution; levels in the series weren't designed with the idea that anyone might do them SO until it became an achievement. Again, this is something that arose from the community challenging itself; Nu-Hitman, for what it's worth, gives you a lot more tools to complete a Suit Only challenge than the previous games while also not allowing for certain abuses of Hitman Blood Money (in HBM, your "Suit" is not a disguise and thus cannot blow your cover, which leads to hilarious Silent Assassin runs where everyone shoots you).

With that in mind, I see no problem with Suit Only being what it always was - a more hardcore challenge for people who enjoy tinkering with the system. That said, now it's not self-imposed. There's a handful of levels in the original games that are downright impossible to stealthily do Suit Only or where the approach relies on flagrant AI abuse and arcane shenaniganry. Nu-Hitman does at least give a Suit Only enthusiast some outing.

I do assure you that my experience with people who play these games dictates that there is a very hardcore niche group of people who know the mechanics well enough to invent SO strategies you and I wouldn't have ever figured out on our own. You're welcome not to enjoy Suit Only, or even gunning for Silent Assassin, and that's always been the case - I have a friend who only ever played the original Hitman 2 (from 2002) as a quasi-ninja favoring a silenced sub-machine gun and simply shot everyone who was a risk to his disguise. The game is generally fairly open-ended; it can be played as an assassin simulator and a The Incredible Machine spinoff all the same. You can complete it once in 5 hours or spend hundreds on just having fun with dumb shit.
 
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DalekFlay

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With that in mind, I see no problem with Suit Only being what it always was - a more hardcore challenge for people who enjoy tinkering with the system. That said, now it's not self-imposed. There's a handful of levels in the original games that are downright impossible to stealthily do Suit Only or where the approach relies on flagrant AI abuse and arcane shenaniganry. Nu-Hitman does at least give a Suit Only enthusiast some outing.

I just don't think it's that "hardcore" because there's usually a few obvious routes and you just go through the tedious process of doing them until you get through unspotted. It doesn't require brain power or thinking, and the stealth in these games is okay at best, so it's just meh. Especially for levels like Bangkok and Sgail, where there's literally only one path to get to the target areas in your suit, which usually involves climbing up a pipe. I just find it boring.
 

Maggot

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Finally got a PC capable of running this game, and the performance is considerably better on dx12 than dx11 but I get the occasional crash and see that it's a common problem. Was there ever a fix for it?
 

Immortal

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I miss the old you, Io-interactive. :(

Yesss, the good old days where we lost of money so we had to lay off half the company. Yes that was times...

And I can tell you, HITMAN is breaking new ground with this experiment with episodic games in the AAA single player space. If it is a success I guarantee you that more games will follow. Even Fallout or Witcher.

Evidence so far shows this is how people buy and play games. We actually studied this - this is not some random claim.


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In May 2017, Square Enix announced that they had withdrawn funding from IO Interactive and would begin negotiating with potential investors that would want to purchase the studio.[71] Several jobs were cut at IO Interactive shortly following that announcement.[72][73]

Hitman 2 was released on 13 November 2018, although those who have pre-ordered the game's gold edition or collector's edition directly through the WB online store gained access to the game four days early: on 9 November.[11] Unlike its predecessor, Hitman 2 is not episodic.

:smug:


EDIT

We are not dead yet... :)

To Be Continued..?
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
[The Hitman series has] been tossed together with [immersive sims] often, so is any of them really actually close to what Looking Glass et all were trying to achieve?
Yes. I strongly recommend the 2016+ HITMAN™ series as being very inspired by the imsim philosophy. Hitman Blood Money is of course a gold standard for this type of game too, though showing its age somewhat.

NOTE: You have to turn off all the helper UI in HITMAN™ before play; otherwise it is a very "guided" experience. Note that the games are 100% designed to be played with or without helper UI, not like games where you turn off the quest marker and have no fucking way of knowing where to go.
 

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