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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Mangoose

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On one hand, I understand that after playing this game for hundreds of hours (as probably one of the eriuses did) it's OK to spice it up with some mods.

On the other hand, I don't understand why people put up with the CotW's idiotic developer instead of playing the beta WotR. It is a new game, you know.

On another hand (wherever it might be) I think that several first playthroughs should be either unmodded or modded very lightly. Like, using only the mods that reduce the save file bloat. Otherwise, a player robs himself of the genuine game experience.

On another another hand - to each his own.

The only kinds of mods I install on a first playthrough are QOL type mods and UI mods, or portrait mods, if I need them, I always leave the gameplay as is. If developers have gone to the trouble of crafting an experience for me, I feel obliged to get my money's worth out of it.
First, uh, Holic is fine. It was MY fault for installing Arms & Armor, which was less tested by people. (And I didn't even notice it had a compatibility problem)

Besides that... They crafted a limited version of an experience crafted by Paizo. If you're playing RTWP, you're a playing a real time with pause experience... of a turn-based game. So would the devs, with unlimited time and budget. From ~a certain point of view~ the PC game is a modification of Pathfinder tabletop.

Is it because I have PNP superiority and I think Pathfinder tabletop is AWESOME!? No, but clearly the developers do, otherwise they'd pick a different game. In fact they made it turn based of their own accord.

Edit: This isn't spicing anything up btw. This is literally copying mechanics that already exist. It's doing the same thing Owlcat was doing, except they had a time limit.
 

Cryomancer

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On another hand (wherever it might be) I think that several first playthroughs should be either unmodded or modded very lightly. Like, using only the mods that reduce the save file bloat. Otherwise, a player robs himself of the genuine game experience.

I disagree.

If the guy is a diehard dhampir fan, backed and got sad when dhampir lost the poll to tieflings, installing races unleashed only to play as a race which would be in the game if they raised more moeny is not a problem. Also, the current version of kingmaker is very different than the in release version. BTW, I cranked like 400 hours before installing CoTW and Races unleashed.

As for WoTR beta, I will only play when it is available on GoG/Steam.

BTW, My keyboard seems to stop working from nothing. How do I solve that problem? I wanna re play the game but having to unplug and replug the keyboard every coup of minutes
 
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Iluvcheezcake

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On another hand (wherever it might be) I think that several first playthroughs should be either unmodded or modded very lightly. Like, using only the mods that reduce the save file bloat. Otherwise, a player robs himself of the genuine game experience.

I disagree.

If the guy is a diehard dhampir fan, backed and got sad when dhampir lost the poll to tieflings, installing races unleashed only to play as a class which would be in the game is not a problem. Also, the current version of kingmaker is very different than the in release version. BTW, I cranked like 400 hours before installing CoTW and Races unleashed.

As for WoTR beta, I will only play when it is available on GoG/Steam.

BTW, My keyboard seems to stop working from nothing. How do I solve that problem? I wanna re play the game but having to unplug and replug the keyboard every coup of minutes

Easy. Buy a cordless keyboard. :)
 

gurugeorge

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Strap Yourselves In
On one hand, I understand that after playing this game for hundreds of hours (as probably one of the eriuses did) it's OK to spice it up with some mods.

On the other hand, I don't understand why people put up with the CotW's idiotic developer instead of playing the beta WotR. It is a new game, you know.

On another hand (wherever it might be) I think that several first playthroughs should be either unmodded or modded very lightly. Like, using only the mods that reduce the save file bloat. Otherwise, a player robs himself of the genuine game experience.

On another another hand - to each his own.

The only kinds of mods I install on a first playthrough are QOL type mods and UI mods, or portrait mods, if I need them, I always leave the gameplay as is. If developers have gone to the trouble of crafting an experience for me, I feel obliged to get my money's worth out of it.
First, uh, Holic is fine. It was MY fault for installing Arms & Armor, which was less tested by people. (And I didn't even notice it had a compatibility problem)

Besides that... They crafted a limited version of an experience crafted by Paizo. If you're playing RTWP, you're a playing a real time with pause experience... of a turn-based game. So would the devs, with unlimited time and budget. From ~a certain point of view~ the PC game is a modification of Pathfinder tabletop.

Is it because I have PNP superiority and I think Pathfinder tabletop is AWESOME!? No, but clearly the developers do, otherwise they'd pick a different game. In fact they made it turn based of their own accord.

Edit: This isn't spicing anything up btw. This is literally copying mechanics that already exist. It's doing the same thing Owlcat was doing, except they had a time limit.

Yeah, but the devs must have had some rationale for leaving things out, a rationale to do with having the game be the way they envisioned, and on a first playthrough I at least want to experience that.
 

Efe

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both modes are great. I like turn based more because constant pausing when everyone is doing a fraction of their actions irritates me compared to a full sequence of turns.
Its more orderly.
 

LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, I will add only 2 things.

First, computer games are not table top games; those are completely different genres whatever the authors think, tell, write, or imagine. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, unto God the things that are God's, and unto psych ward the things that are table topper's.

Second - to each his own.
 

Rean

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Strap Yourselves In
Well, I will add only 2 things.

First, computer games are not table top games; those are completely different genres whatever the authors think, tell, write, or imagine. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, unto God the things that are God's, and unto psych ward the things that are table topper's.

Second - to each his own.

I'd be very interested to hear more on this (deranged) opinion. Hate for turn-based and tabletop? Kingmaker is a fantastic CRPG, but only on tabletop can you capture the pure essence of a 'role-playing game'. I've known a few individuals who hate tabletop and it always comes down to psychosocial intricacies. They were either too shy to look for a group/friendless or found out they were too 'introverted' to keep playing with a group after they were graciously invited (and ruined said group's campaign and mood). Then there's the third type of retards who were never meant for tabletop since they were initiated through degeneracy such as Critical Snowflakes, but those tend to mostly stick to Reddit.
 

Yosharian

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The game would be better if they added an option to already start with full custom party. Gonna play with plot companions just to see the side quests, but i hope that they will add this option in the future in some patch. And i know that you can recruit them, but there's no way you can afford that crap at the beginning for full party.
True but it's relatively easy to give yourself a bit of gold at the start and buy them. Bag of Tricks is easy to install and allows you to do this literally in seconds
 

Mangoose

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both modes are great. I like turn based more because constant pausing when everyone is doing a fraction of their actions irritates me compared to a full sequence of turns.
Its more orderly.
That's not the point at all. All the game mechanics have been designed with the objective of being turn based... Over a decade ago. Nothing wrong with adapting it to RTWP, but it's completely obvious that if the tabletop game is so successful, then obviously it's going to work. If the turn based mode sucked, then Pathfinder would not exist as a sellable product. This game would never have been made. A RWTP game designed from ground up would, well, should (fuck you PoE) be a lot different mechanically.

Still, RTWP vs TB is not the issue. It's 3rd edition D&D mechanics at its base. It's 1+1=2 that a turn based game that has sold for decades is going to work.

Edit: Actually, double criticism at Obsidian. They just put in TB for the sake of TB, adapting mechanics that were designed under the assumption that the game was NOT TB.
 
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NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Its base version. The lady asked for 2000 gold to recruit additional companions when i had 4. Now i have six. Well i will probably pirate DLCs from cs rin ru.
Mercenaries' cost depends on your level, not the number of companions you already have. At level 2 you need 2.000 gp to hire a mercenary, but at level 1 you just need 500 gp (or, if they still haven't fixed it, they are basically free). If you avoid leveling up before gaining access to the lady that lets you recruit them, you can easily create a full custom party. But it obviously is not something that you should do on your first playthrough without an acceptable knowledge of the system.
 

Mangoose

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Since ive upped TB speed and use space to speed up turns if necessary, the TB experience is quite good. There's really nothing to complain about.
I'd hope not. I'd have a brain aneurysm if TB sucked because that would mean the tabletop game sucked. And if the tabletop game sucked, this computer game would never have been made because the franchise would be tanked and bankrupt a decade ago.

It's not so much a comparison between TB and RTWP... It's just that Pathfinder is a turn based game, so copying it faithfully would make it just as good or bad as the tabletop.

Now, whether a RTWP adaptation is good completely depends on the developers. It can be good, or it can be bad.

But you would be retarded to say that turn-based Pathfinder is different from turn-based Pathfinder. It's the same damn thing, mechanically.

Edit: In other words... I am playing the game as the intended vision of Paizo Inc. (and loads of errata) not Owlcat. Specifically talking about the mechanics, of course.

Edit 2: BTW, Holic just added the Flying Kick stylestrike. That's a strike that every single melee Monk takes unless they're dumb or they use pummeling charge, because it's a pounce.
 
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Desiderius

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P:K TB is far superior to Deadfire, but you’re still better off with RTwP until you get to the point where you’re trying to manage several Swift, Move, and Standard Actions. TB is superior for that but I only ever found it necessary when playing CotW.
 

Mangoose

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P:K TB is far superior to Deadfire, but you’re still better off with RTwP until you get to the point where you’re trying to manage several Swift, Move, and Standard Actions. TB is superior for that but I only ever found it necessary when playing CotW.
Yeah. Well, it kinda comes hand-in-hand. Is TB good because it lets you do swift, move, and std actions better, or were swift, move, and std actions design decisions specific for a TB game?

Either way, no component in a system can live in a vacuum. Because a component in a vacuum is not attached to a system. Everything relies on everything else, you're always compensating design decisions. This isn't just gaming. It's any technology we ever create. You can't just slap together shit and call it engineering.

Now, how you approach design (macro/micro/??) is a different story. But TB isn't good by itself unless the mechanics work around the fact that it's TB.

For example:

What is the purpose of the Reflex Save?

Its purpose is to simulate dodging a spell in a game where only one person can act at a time. It's an abstraction.

Taking to the other extreme - an FPS without pause - would you put mechanics like reflex throws in said FPS? Probably not.

But then again, you might be playing some sci-fi shooter where you have implants that act without guidance. Then you would need to put in a mechanic to reflect that.
 

LannTheStupid

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Is TB good because it lets you do swift, move, and std actions better, or were swift, move, and std actions design decisions specific for a TB game?
Is the A.I. (AKA the enemies) able to do the same on its turn? Is the A.I. able to interrupt your turn as you can interrupt its? Mr. Xamenos pointed out that table top rules allow it.

So if it is implemented in the CRPG turn based system then it's OK.

If it is not implemented - well, then you're cheating. Which, probably, would lead to самогон с огурчиками beer and pizza brawl in your table top session.

Also, the ultimate requirement for all table toppers: you should not play any game from Owlcat - wtih any mods - without Last Azlanti mode enabled. Ever.

P.S.: I feel like I'm posting this for the hunderdth time, but it's OK.
 

Desiderius

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It’s all simulating an actual process that features simultaneous action by all participants. Anything that degrades simultaneity directly degrades the validity of the simulation itself.

People who get caught up on fidelity to PnP instead of that which is being simulated are like deaf parents who want to puncture their children’s eardrums.
 

Mangoose

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It’s all simulating an actual process that features simultaneous action by all participants. Anything that degrades simultaneity directly degrades the validity of the simulation itself.

People who get caught up on fidelity to PnP instead of that which is being simulated are like deaf parents who want to puncture their children’s eardrums.
What are you on about?

All I said is that fidelity would work because the game has worked. Aka 1+1 = 2. I didn't say it's always better that way, it's other people who were talking about RTWP and TB and I said durrr if you make the game more of a copy of course it's going to work.

Besides that, those were just questions to think about.
 

Mangoose

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Is TB good because it lets you do swift, move, and std actions better, or were swift, move, and std actions design decisions specific for a TB game?
Is the A.I. (AKA the enemies) able to do the same on its turn? Is the A.I. able to interrupt your turn as you can interrupt its? Mr. Xamenos pointed out that table top rules allow it.

So if it is implemented in the CRPG turn based system then it's OK.

If it is not implemented - well, then you're cheating. Which, probably, would lead to самогон с огурчиками beer and pizza brawl in your table top session.

Also, the ultimate requirement for all table toppers: you should not play any game from Owlcat - wtih any mods - without Last Azlanti mode enabled. Ever.

P.S.: I feel like I'm posting this for the hunderdth time, but it's OK.
That was a rhetorical question. Did the chicken come before the egg? Or did the egg come before the chicken? Just something to think about, assuming people like to wonder such paradoxes every now and then.

Also, it would not be cheating at all, because Owlcat created this TB mode. Everything that is is as designed. (Besides that, yes, that would be cheating. I feel like they probably could... because all of that was already in the game before they put in TB.)
 

Mangoose

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I'm confused where this RTWP vs TB thing is coming from. I wasn't arguing anything related to that. I was just saying it's dumb to expect the TB mode to NOT work. That's a separate logical statement.
 

Artyoan

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'RTWP vs TB' forum discussion is itself both a form of RTWP and TB combat. Carry on.
 

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