Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Rean]

Desiderius may be an asshole at times. And Lann is a communistic fuck. But so what. They're a part of this family as anyone else. They've been here longer than you. They've helped contribute to the pathfinder threads in meaningful ways than you have thus far. What ways have you done to better your fellow men? All you've done so far is annoy us with your atrocious posting that you've unleashed upon our good senses. You're no better than an incestuous insect begging for attention.

I don't care what crimes against humanity Desiderius performed against you in another forum. You're no longer in that depraved forum. You're now on the Codex. if you think I won't come to their defense against an outsider such as yourself. Then you are woefully wrong.

- Yet to address any of the points made (reading comprehension 0/10).
- Don't even start with the 'old boys posse' bullshit, I've been through it and always come out on top more times than you could count. You're not an oldfag, you're just a fag.
- The white-knighting garbage is over the top and pathetic. You have already admitted there's retards here; said retards have been shitting up the thread with propaganda for some time now, it's time someone answered truthfully. You know you can still like people and not want to suck their dick on every occasion (might be hard when you're a fag).

Why don't you just ignore the obvious troll, people?

For someone 'ignoring' me you sure have given me a lot of ratings, cuck. I enjoy seeing the notifications coming from you massively.

 

[gurugeorge]

The idea that I'm obsessed with DPS... just too perfect.

About 100 pages to serve as proof. Maybe more? I can only go so far.

A substantial chunk of Desiderius' content re. PFK at least (which is what I've been following on and off) has been about how you DON'T need uber DPS builds to beat the game, and about how you can still have a lot of flavour in your build (like the way the companions in the game are built, for example) and still beat the game even on the hardest difficulty, if you intelligently exploit the full range of tools and synergies the game gives you.

IOW he's been a strong proponent of NOT building Frankenstein's monsters just for the sake of DPS or the highest on-paper rating for this and that.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, DPS* is an MMO term - specifically from the great dumbing down era that killed MMOs - and pretty much my whole thing is trying to recover the more enjoyable/interesting gameplay from the beforetimes for this generation of gamers.

If I understand the great Owlcat designers correctly that’s what they’re about too.

* - you can say maybe it’s from Diablo minmaxxing or whatever but for most people it’s associated with the spank from braindead tank, spank, and heal.

Games that also require distract, debuff, and disable depending - or even nuking your way out of an ambush/talking your way out of the whole business/sneaking by - are a far superior experience.

 

[Pink Eye]

Desiderius may be an asshole at times. And Lann is a communistic fuck. But so what. They're a part of this family as anyone else. They've been here longer than you. They've helped contribute to the pathfinder threads in meaningful ways than you have thus far. What ways have you done to better your fellow men? All you've done so far is annoy us with your atrocious posting that you've unleashed upon our good senses. You're no better than an incestuous insect begging for attention.

I don't care what crimes against humanity Desiderius performed against you in another forum. You're no longer in that depraved forum. You're now on the Codex. if you think I won't come to their defense against an outsider such as yourself. Then you are woefully wrong.

- Yet to address any of the points made (reading comprehension 0/10).
- Don't even start with the 'old boys posse' bullshit, I've been through it and always come out on top more times than you could count. You're not an oldfag, you're just a fag.
- The white-knighting garbage is over the top and pathetic. You have already admitted there's retards here; said retards have been shitting up the thread with propaganda for some time now, it's time someone answered truthfully. You know you can still like people and not want to suck their dick on every occasion (might be hard when you're a fag).

Why don't you just ignore the obvious troll, people?

For someone 'ignoring' me you sure have given me a lot of ratings, cuck. I enjoy seeing the notifications coming from you massively.

You're a fucking tetanus infection. Do us all a favor, and throw yourself over the bridge. Thanks in advance. It would absolutely improve humanity by a huge margin without garbage like you corrupting our air.

 

[LannTheStupid]

You're a fucking tetanus infection.

I like your comparisons!

However, I'd like to know more about crustaceans and living armor.

 

[Pink Eye]

Lann, my friend, I'm glad you asked! Let's see. A crustacean is a bottom feeder. The worst of the worst. These deplorable creatures are filthy degenerates that only sustain themselves through the nutritions of decaying creatures - or in this case, through the defecated feces of others. Indeed. Such abominations are repugnant stains that reek a nauseating odor whenever they're around. They come in many forms. But in our case, they come in the shape of Alkohol - a delusional inbred poster whose mother made a stupendous mistake, by giving birth to *it*.

As for your other question. I have no clue what living armor would be like! Monks don't wear armor, silly pants!

 

[LannTheStupid]

As for your other question. I have no clue what living armor would be like! Monks don't wear armor, silly pants!

The question is: if the armor cannot be taken off, doesn't it become the part of the warrior? The same way as his skin is? May be Darth Bane would have been the best monk if he decided to use hands and feet instead of the lightsaber?!

 

[Artyoan]

Yeah, DPS* is an MMO term - specifically from the great dumbing down era that killed MMOs - and pretty much my whole thing is trying to recover the more enjoyable/interesting gameplay from the beforetimes for this generation of gamers.

If I understand the great Owlcat designers correctly that’s what they’re about too.

* - you can say maybe it’s from Diablo minmaxxing or whatever but for most people it’s associated with the spank from braindead tank, spank, and heal.

Games that also require distract, debuff, and disable depending - or even nuking your way out of an ambush/talking your way out of the whole business/sneaking by - are a far superior experience.

DPS matters when every damage class role is performing that single function 99% of the time. Which should never be the case in a decent rpg. MMORPG's are/were at their best when they gave flavor skills and spells for use both in and out of combat. I used to pick a class in WoW based on the 'extra' spells like portals, water/food, stealth, mounts, healthstones, summoning, waterwalking, breathing underwater, etc. They de-emphasized those spells to the point of being useless or not unique. Classes became aesthetic choices only.

Its not necessarily 'role playing' but there is a degree of immersion via exclusivity for RPG's that I need to see. Once I realize I'm playing a game for efficiency, I stop playing it.

 

[Efe]

if we can have intelligent weapons, surely we can have intelligent armors trained in being a monk, thus creating the armored monk.
I guess this is what obsidian tried to do with devil of caroc?

 

[Sykar]

Yeah, DPS* is an MMO term - specifically from the great dumbing down era that killed MMOs - and pretty much my whole thing is trying to recover the more enjoyable/interesting gameplay from the beforetimes for this generation of gamers.

If I understand the great Owlcat designers correctly that’s what they’re about too.

* - you can say maybe it’s from Diablo minmaxxing or whatever but for most people it’s associated with the spank from braindead tank, spank, and heal.

Games that also require distract, debuff, and disable depending - or even nuking your way out of an ambush/talking your way out of the whole business/sneaking by - are a far superior experience.

DPS matters when every damage class role is performing that single function 99% of the time. Which should never be the case in a decent rpg. MMORPG's are/were at their best when they gave flavor skills and spells for use both in and out of combat. I used to pick a class in WoW based on the 'extra' spells like portals, water/food, stealth, mounts, healthstones, summoning, waterwalking, breathing underwater, etc. They de-emphasized those spells to the point of being useless or not unique. Classes became aesthetic choices only.

Its not necessarily 'role playing' but there is a degree of immersion via exclusivity for RPG's that I need to see. Once I realize I'm playing a game for efficiency, I stop playing it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3g8nez/comprehensive_list_of_all_rpg_elements_removed/

Never forget, never forgive. Instead of designing and enhancing RPG they just castrated the RPG parts completely and making everything brain dead easy except for raids (maybe). Nothing but pure

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think optimization in the given set of criteria is fun experience by itself. Applying to Kingmaker: do InEffect's builds solve this task better than Desiderius - I am not sure. Do InEffect's builds promote the lack of build variety - probably.

So what? InEffect does not include "fun builds" in his set of criteria for optimization; someone else does. And a player - or at least a player who is not a crustacean - can decide which optimization, if any, s/he wants.

 

[gurugeorge]

*koff koff* Tattoo "armors" in Skyrim modding

It would make more sense for a monk to have some kind of tattoo or branding that magically gives him qi power.

Speaking of qi power, there's a whole thing behind all that stuff that's quite real and is (broadly) about a) clever leverage combined with b) rather recondite conditioning of the body's fascia. There's a lot you could do with East Asian MA type archetypes that would ground them more in reality while still keeping characters who use those abilities quite powerful - even before you get to the question of magical ability, there's a whole physical conditioning level.

In fact, in a way, monks are the archetypal "muscle mages"

 

[Desiderius]

Well I got started in on InEffect once I figured out that there was something off in his optimization itself (he missed Pathfinder’s whole design objective of making single-classing viable and the mechanisms they used to achieve it). He also optimized as if each character were soloing (or merely tank/spank/healing), which missed the second big source P:K’s fun.

People often got confused by my two pronged critique of traditional minmaxxing alongside noticing that they weren’t even finding their own optima correctly.

 

[Cryomancer]

Instead of designing and enhancing RPG they just castrated the RPG parts completely and making everything brain dead easy except for raids (maybe). Nothing but pure

Yep. They could improve their RPG mechanics instead of remove it.

For example, the necessity of soulshards for certain warlock spells. They could made it stack and the warlock able to carry multiple of this items, make different soul "tiers" like elder scrolls games with anything between great and lesser soul gems, and implemented more soul spending spells, allowing warlocks to maybe enchant items and do all types of crazy stuff with it. But no, that is too cool. The "solution" for the "my inventory is full of soul shards" is to remove it...

I think optimization in the given set of criteria is fun experience by itself

Optimization makes sense when your character would optimize. For example, a Barbarian who loves to use Axes picking weapon focus Axes makes sense. But creating a pun pun build takes all the fun of the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Note:

I’ve never played WoW, principally because the RT of Warcraft (and its precursors Age of Empires and Total Annihilation) drove me nuts as someone who cut my teeth on Empire and Civ.

I’m talking here principally LotRO. Played a lot of Guild Wars but that started out pretty streamlined. LotRO literally hired the chick from FarmVille when they went FTP. Fucking suits.

 

[Efe]

ehh, what does warcraft take from TA?
dont get me wrong it was one of those games I loved as a youth but I just dont see the commonality besides same genre

 

[Rean]

You're welcome for breathing new life into a thread that was in its death throes.
Donations to pay for beer are accepted. And tabletop is still the purest, most redpilled form of RPG and anyone who denies that needs to be put in a straitjacket.

 

[Cryomancer]

CRPG's are great but not as TTRPG's. You have far more liberty on TTRPG's and the social aspect. When you are playing a CRPG, is important that you have fun. When you are playing a TTRPG, is important that the group(dm included) have fun. This is the main reason which I prefer high level on CRPG's and mid level on TTRPG's(and the fact that most good modules for TT are mid levels). Between playing TT WoTR and electronic WoTR, I would prefer TT however, finding a group for such a long campaign is not easy.

 

[Pink Eye]

On the topic of PnP. Once played with my 4chan buddies and Anonymous Wife Scholar It was fun. Took me a while to create my monk sheet. My character wanted to punch every evil face it meets. Maybe I should convince Wife Scholar to do another campaign with me. But we need like four people and a DM to get a campaign going, ah well.

 

[Desiderius]

ehh, what does warcraft take from TA?
dont get me wrong it was one of those games I loved as a youth but I just dont see the commonality besides same genre

Shit happens off screen while you're dicking around. It doesn't in Empire/Civ. TBtards still scarred by the experience all these years later.

 

[Reinhardt]

Dafug is this thread?

 

[Haplo]

Not truth. Disintegrate which is a tier bellow finger of death and works on undead, a lot of group buffing spells like haste and , a lot of debuffs like slow, polymorth transformation(...) not mentioning stop time & similar spells It is just a awful specialization for her since she is designed to be a arcane triskter.

BTW, On Call of The Wild mod, she becomes a generalist exploiter wizard.

Disintegrate isn't awful... but I've almost never used it. There were always better alternatives. Slow? Again, not bad, but either you can hard-CC enemies, make them easy targets or... Slow them. I've never found the last alternative particularly exciting. As for Baleful polymorph, for the longest time it meant loosing the enemy loot.
Specialization doesn't do much for buffs (other then extra slots). So I should specialize for some 3 spells, that are suboptimal in 95% of the cases? No, thank you.

 

[Desiderius]

Slow is the best spell in the game (nothing immune, AoE Enemies only, eliminates 75% of the most dangerous attax), it's just harder to get it to reliably blow out saves since no Transmutation Rod etc...

Transmutation strength is almost entirely on the buff side so it's also kind of out of place.

 

[Parabalus]

He also optimized as if each character were soloing (or merely tank/spank/healing), which missed the second big source P:K’s fun.

Wouldn't go that far, his builds are optimized around A-moving through the map, they do that well. Plenty of them rely on party buffs.

 

[Atlet]

what do you think about this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/112

"This mod adds Antipaladin, Arcanist, Brawler, Hunter, Occultist, Oracle, Witch, Skald, Warpriest, Bloodrager, Shaman, Investigator, Summoner, Psychic, Spiritualist, Hinterlander, Dawnflower Anchorite, and Holy Vindicator classes, and lots of new feats, spells and other class abilities."