Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Is English not your first language or are you just retarded?

You suck at the game as a game.
Beating it is beside the point.

Retarded it is then. :roll:

Self awareness is the first step on the road to sucking less. An inability to grok simple game mechanics and analogies suggests it may be a long one, but just think of how much time you’ll have to enjoy improving, if ever so slowly.

I’ll leave you alone so as not to overtax those modest mental faculties. Ignore.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
2,912
Location
Ardamai
oh josh you're so wacky

(FEMALE_SORCERER_1 voice from IWD2)

upload_2021-5-7_18-39-8.png
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,470
Location
Frostfell
Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Just because you’ve found the abilities that weren’t (and I’ve found the synergies) doesn’t mean that most abilities weren’t (overbalensed).

But the problem is the way* that they were overbalanced, and finding the I win buttons just makes it worse.

The problem with tic tac toe isn’t that it’s overbalanced, it’s that it’s trivial. Finding one weird trick that lets you take three moves in a row doesn’t change that.

* - too few angles of attack/dimensions you can affect/ways you can affect them

If it were just 1-3 combos that work to discover in a sea of blandness, I might be inclined to agree.
But there are amazing and quite often unexpected synergies all over the place. Many combos I would not expect to be good in fact work great.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Just because you’ve found the abilities that weren’t (and I’ve found the synergies) doesn’t mean that most abilities weren’t (overbalensed).

But the problem is the way* that they were overbalanced, and finding the I win buttons just makes it worse.

The problem with tic tac toe isn’t that it’s overbalanced, it’s that it’s trivial. Finding one weird trick that lets you take three moves in a row doesn’t change that.

* - too few angles of attack/dimensions you can affect/ways you can affect them

If it were just 1-3 combos that work to discover in a sea of blandness, I might be inclined to agree.
But there are amazing and quite often unexpected synergies all over the place. Many combos I would not expect to be good in fact work great.

Work in the same narrow way and to do the same narrow thing. Once you’ve effortlessly blown out a combat or three things get boring. Games where you can offer a wide variety of angles of attack - and have to - are more interesting.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,153
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"
Yes, this observation has been made multiple times over the years. Like I said, they attempted to capture the casual audience with a game built on grognards' kickstarter funds. While there is a way to configure the game to be enjoyable for a subsection of grognards, on the whole Obsidian lost both audience groups.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
It sold better than that didn’t it?

Moral of the story: recreate the experience you loved and share it (bridging the supposed casual/grognard gap), don’t try to condescend to those you imagine incapable of your own brilliance.
 
Last edited:

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

If people liked the IE games, more power too them, but let's not pretend the combat was well implemented. If this trend continues, we'll have people on here 10 years from now calling themselves "grognards" for liking Fallout 3's combat.
 

the mole

Learned
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
833
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

If people liked the IE games, more power too them, but let's not pretend the combat was well implemented. If this trend continues, we'll have people on here 10 years from now calling themselves "grognards" for liking Fallout 3's combat.
in fallout 3 your damage increases as you increase your skills

sounds like an rpg to me
 

vibehunter

Learned
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
264
Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.

I like all three, but PF is just on another level, and Wrath on another level still.
 

Drowed

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
1,676
Location
Core City
Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.

I like all three, but PF is just on another level, and Wrath on another level still.

Same, except that I didn't like POE2, but liked the first one. Maybe my opinion will change in the next replay.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The last patch or whatever for Deadfire added a lot. You can also sneak past the Digsite Drake and if you enter Gorecci from the bottom that fight makes more sense.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
Around $9 million investment, around 1 million copies sold.
Any source about it? I mean, I heard that poe2 sold poorly but din't imagine that was THAT bad

:deathclaw:

40$ a unit, not counting discounts nor expensive bundles, they probably balance each other.
40M - 9M investment.

31M$ - 30/40% steam fees = 19/22M before taxes.

What a failure indeed.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Your math is pretty optimistic but still... can't imagine they lost money.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,470
Location
Frostfell
40$ a unit, not counting discounts nor expensive bundles, they probably balance each other.
40M - 9M investment.

31M$ - 30/40% steam fees = 19/22M before taxes.

What a failure indeed.

Not everyone payed on USD. Some people payed on Russian, Argentine, Indian currency...
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom