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Move jRPG above ALL ELSE on the main board

Rean

Head Codexian Weeb
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1,927
Strap Yourselves In
I'm frustrated. Let's be honest. Western RPGs are dogshit and it's time they were overtaken.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker doesn't hold a candle to Legend of Heroes.
Some people haven't seen the light, they need to know the absolute undeniable truth.
 

Rean

Head Codexian Weeb
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Strap Yourselves In
Gaysetera hates jrpgs and has repeatedly campaigned for censoring them. There's nothing to censor in things like Kingmaker. Amiri is a feminist transvestite man roleplaying as a woman, Octavia a polyamorous monster-lover. The mechanics of the game involve randomly encountering wandering kobold bandit hobos 3 times a day that fight to death and rolling d20s to determine if you can hold your breath long enough to uncover a vital piece of a do-or-die quest. HARD PASS.
I'm here as a convert to pull the curtains that have been hiding reality as it should be.
The TRUTH shines on even the tranny-est of individuals.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,707
Let's be honest: good parts of Kangmaker - build porn and combat - are good because of asian genes in russians. Writing and everyhing story related was from west and it was average or even worse, like with most companions. West of Russia you can't even get good combat to balance poz.
 

Lady Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Vatnik
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Strap Yourselves In
Yes, this is an EXTREMELY important subject and I think it deserves to be seen and considered by ALL here at RPG Codex.

Moving to Site Feedback IMMEDIATELY.






































































Yeah, no.

The furries and weaboos should feel the wrath of the masses. For educational purposes.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
There has actually been a trickle of decent and even good games coming out of the Western world in the last ten years - especially if you include non-RPGs - so the Western scene hasn't quite been a desert. That said, anyone who has at least a basic grasp of the axiology of game design and has experience with the output of both regions should be well aware of the fact that - outside of the strategy genre - the Japanese have been completely outclassing the West throughout the course of the last decade. This is especially the case for RPGs. Most of the people who deny this don't even play any Japanese games at all, so they don't even know what they don't know, which is why they invariably resort to tired memes and generalizations (obligatory mentions of grinding, trash mobs, etc) instead of analysis and arguments centered around specific games.

That said, no amount of posting about this will change the prevailing mindset in this forum, which is by far one of contempt for Japanese games. The best solution here would be for a pro-Japan Codexer to start their own forum centered around Japanese games. I'm not even joking here, it is a serious suggestion. I, for one, would join it.
 
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Self-Ejected

aweigh

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Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
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Florida
Most of the people who deny this don't even play any Japanese games at all, so they don't even know what they don't know,

That's a big part of the problem, because you can't have any meaningful discussion about RPGs of video games if the person you're talking to ignores half of the world's video games. You can only have a discussion about RPGs with someone if everyone involved plays all kinds of games, otherwise it's completely pointless.

That's why I never bother talking about RPGs with anyone who's on the anti-japan crowd, there's no point. They are missing half the information, and to top it off most don't even play the few Western hallmarks like the first five Wizardry games and consider them "outdated" because their only conceptualization of an RPG is the Western mish-mash of Adventure Game elements. Like you say they literally don't know what they don't know.

EDIT: Also most of the anti-japanese game people are leftist faggots too. There is a strong correlation between story-fags and leftists, from my sampling of Codexer opinions.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,221
There has actually been a trickle of decent and even good games coming out of the Western world in the last ten years - especially if you include non-RPGs - so the Western scene hasn't quite been a desert. That said, anyone who has at least a basic grasp of the axiology of game design and has experience with the output of both regions should be well aware of the fact that - outside of the strategy genre - the Japanese have been completely outclassing the West throughout the course of the last decade. This is especially the case for RPGs. Most of the people who deny this don't even play any Japanese games at all, so they don't even know what they don't know, which is why they invariably resort to tired memes and generalizations (obligatory mentions of grinding, trash mobs, etc) instead of analysis and arguments centered around specific games.

That said, no amount of posting about this will change the prevailing mindset in this forum, which is by far one of contempt for Japanese games. The best solution here would be for a pro-Japan Codexer to start their own forum centered around Japanese games. I'm not even joking here, it is a serious suggestion. I, for one, would join it.

Out of genuine curiosity what are some examples of recent JRPGs that can outclass recent western RPGs. With the exception of traditional-style dungeon crawlers and the extremely rare indie autismo combatfag games like Labyrinth of Touhou, I can't think of any and whatever I look at a big/middle budget JRPG it just seems incredibly boring from a glance.

This is not me trying to disprove your claim, but rather trying to fill my "RPGs to potentially play list".
 

StaticSpine

Arcane
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Dec 14, 2013
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3,232
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Moscow
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Out of genuine curiosity what are some examples of recent JRPGs that can outclass recent western RPGs. With the exception of traditional-style dungeon crawlers and the extremely rare indie autismo combatfag games like Labyrinth of Touhou, I can't think of any and whatever I look at a big/middle budget JRPG it just seems incredibly boring from a glance.

This is not me trying to disprove your claim, but rather trying to fill my "RPGs to potentially play list".
Bruh, Yakuza: Like a Dragon.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
There has actually been a trickle of decent and even good games coming out of the Western world in the last ten years - especially if you include non-RPGs - so the Western scene hasn't quite been a desert. That said, anyone who has at least a basic grasp of the axiology of game design and has experience with the output of both regions should be well aware of the fact that - outside of the strategy genre - the Japanese have been completely outclassing the West throughout the course of the last decade. This is especially the case for RPGs. Most of the people who deny this don't even play any Japanese games at all, so they don't even know what they don't know, which is why they invariably resort to tired memes and generalizations (obligatory mentions of grinding, trash mobs, etc) instead of analysis and arguments centered around specific games.

That said, no amount of posting about this will change the prevailing mindset in this forum, which is by far one of contempt for Japanese games. The best solution here would be for a pro-Japan Codexer to start their own forum centered around Japanese games. I'm not even joking here, it is a serious suggestion. I, for one, would join it.

Out of genuine curiosity what are some examples of recent JRPGs that can outclass recent western RPGs. With the exception of traditional-style dungeon crawlers and the extremely rare indie autismo combatfag games like Labyrinth of Touhou, I can't think of any and whatever I look at a big/middle budget JRPG it just seems incredibly boring from a glance.

This is not me trying to disprove your claim, but rather trying to fill my "RPGs to potentially play list".

SaGa Scarlet Grace from 2016 is definitely a highlight. I wrote some feedback on it on the SaGa thread if you want more details. Long story short: very well executed instance of a prestigious phase-based system with an emphasis on managing AP and gaming the initiative order, plus excellent enemy variety/encounter design, all supported by a very creative and interactive approach to exploration.

There have also been some good releases lately in terms of Tactics games. For example, Fire Emblem Conquest may have a horrible story and a very off-putting shonen presentation, but it is one of the most challenging single-player turn-based tactics campaigns out there. It certainly gives the tougher modern Western tactics games like Mordheim a run for their money. It's also 'hard but fair' unlike some other Fire Emblem games that only became difficult at certain difficulty modes that eschewed elegance in map design (not that there aren't a couple of gimmick maps). Fire Emblem Three Houses is a bit iffier on the combat, but is much better than Conquest at everything else and a very good 'SRPG' (not a fan of this term, but whatever) in its own right. Valkyria Chronicles 4 was also very good and IMO an improvement over the original (Scouts feel less OP now).

I haven't played the more recent Atelier games, but some of the releases in the series in the early 10s excelled at providing an unique experience centered around crafting, which resulted in games with some of the finest, most complex crafting mechanics out there. The last one in the series I played was Escha & Logy and it was very good, but I've heard they switched to a more 'actiony' system for the new ones (old ones had well executed turn-based combat) and can't really vouch for them.

I've been playing the Trails of Cold Steel games lately and they are also very good. They took the materia system from FF7 and refined it to the point that they have some of the most fun squad-building out there that isn't based on a D&D system. The combat is also good: a mostly old-fashioned turn-based system with a few twists that make it a bit gamey, but allow for plenty of player creativity in beating encounters and diversity in tactics. Combat on higher difficulties is also satisfyingly challenging without, for the most part, feeling cheap, inelegant, or unfair. This is thanks to some well-designed boss fights and extensive and detailed bestiaries where even regular enemies can pose a threat. On a more 'storyfag' note, the game has an excellent setting and world-building and you might quite enjoy it if you like some older war drama anime series like Legend of the Galactic Heroes and some of the Gundam series.

Perhaps one possible complaint might be that the games perhaps do require grinding for an optimal experience, though I would say this is mostly at the higher difficulties. I'd say it's possible to get through the Normal difficulties with minimal grinding. Another complaint that often pops up is the series' pacing issues: some of these games can be very slow, something that is exacerbated if you are playing a version with no speed-up options. The dungeon design is not always great, but at least Cold Steel 3 has some very nice highlights and a decent signal-to-noise ratio in terms of dungeon quality. So, those are things to keep in mind.

I've also been playing Xenoblade Chronicles X recently and so far my impression is very positive, as the game has some rather complex party/character building mechanics, impressive overworld design and exploration, plus a combat system that flows much better than it should when you read about it on paper. One drawback may be limited party control. However, I'm still too early in the game to really comment on its overall quality.

Also, I don't see why we should exclude Wizardry-style crawlers from the equation, they are a big part of the reason I'd put Japanese recent output above Western. Elminage Original and Gothic, Stranger of Sword City, The Dark Spire, Dungeon Travelers 2, the Etrian Odyssey games... put all of these together and you already have an amount of recent quality releases that the West would struggle to rival.

Additionally, while I assume that you are primarily speaking about more abstract RPGs, it's worth noting that the Japanese also have the West at a disadvantage when it comes to Action RPGs, especially with releases like Dragon's Dogma and the Soulsborne games.

It goes without saying that your capacity to enjoy these games will depend on your degree of tolerance for anime, as the presentation of most of these games (with the exception of perhaps Scarlet Grace and a few Wiz-likes) is heavily imbued with that aesthetic and a lot of the tropes that come with it. This is especially the case with Fire Emblem Conquest, Dungeon Travelers 2, and the Atelier games. Ultimately, though, if you can get past that, you are in for some very refined gameplay, both in terms of content and mechanics.
 
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Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,221

Thanks for the very informative write up.

The reason I wanted to exclude Japanese dungeon crawlers is because I know that the sub-genre is in a good place and there are not many equivalent games from the west to compare them to. Who the fuck even makes western dungeon crawlers any more apart from Cleve? Also I usually distance them from JRPGs because if you take out the anime graphics, they're to some extent Wizardry clones and Wizardry is a western game. When I think JRPGs I think stuff like Final Fantasy - per-defined party characters, lots of focus on story and lore other than just killing and looting shit, etc. The Japanese equivalents of Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Arcanum, etc.


Bruh, Yakuza: Like a Dragon.

Is that game actually good? I saw some videos of it and it looked funny with how it tries to tell a modern day story with fantasy RPG mechanics, but it seemed more like a joke game, kinda like the South Park RPG and not very deep mechanically.
 
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