Total War: Three Kingdoms - the next major historical Total War title set in ancient China

[Burning Bridges]

I had no idea they had Turnbull. How low have they fallen indeed.

With hindsight it may be crap, but at the time I found this was an intro that at least tried to prepare you for something historical.



Not too serious of course, but very good history-tainment. The whole game was a bit like that and had pretty inspirational visuals and music. Let's not get into the Ninja stuff, I assume most Japanese believe this themselves.

 

[downwardspiral]

The only thing good about total war games series is they keep the worst kind of community at bay. So they won't join and play other wargrames and ruined their games.
I don't even remember this game been a historical game.
I won't claim to be an expert on sengoku era but at least I know how much BS shogun 1 has. The 2 is even more BS.
It is not nit pick BS but the combat itself is BS.

However they have innovative combat system, like how deep your spearman unit affect how they fight.
It is not just a pure number game like most of the computer real time games of it's time.

But as series attract more audience. There are more focus on historical accuracy and people don't care about this innovative combat details TW bring.
In 3K all the details are gone due to 20 years of removing complexity.
Testudo in 3K? It can block arrows from all angles. It is a pure stat buff just like every other games today.

I witness this this castration of complexity for 20 years.
I was thinking "okay, at least give me mixed units if you love to make them all spreadsheet units"
No, TW community and CA are just pure cancer. They whinny about historical accuracy and how people dress but no one care about how battle is fought. And they hate mixed units because they want rock paper scissor micro management.
They want stupid archer who can shoot like guided missile.
Yet they whinny about historical accuracy all the time.

No one care about how silly that 100-200 men square single weapon unit is to portray Sengoku era combat.
And no one care about the innovative combat system TW had.

It is all about historical nerds who don't even care about historical OOB and combat logic painting the map now.

This game is only good for Warhammer monster crowds. They will be happy as long as there are more units to buy.

 

[downwardspiral]

I had no idea they had Turnbull. How low have they fallen indeed.

With hindsight it may be crap, but at the time I found this was an intro that at least tried to prepare you for something historical.



Not too serious of course, but very good history-tainment. The whole game was a bit like that and had pretty inspirational visuals and music. Let's not get into the Ninja stuff, I assume most Japanese believe this themselves.

Despite how much BS shogun 1 had.
There is one common mistake it didn't do.
That is having large block of pure katana samurai unit.
The unit designer at least know normal sword is mostly a side weapon in segoku era as well. And ofc they can't resist to add bunch of single weapon fancy units into the game in shogun 1 to appeal to the weapons nerds who don't really care about how weapons are used.
But at least the basic unit are all using spear.

I bet the historical consultant they hired was constantly whinny and say "here, this unit should be removed. This here, all the combat should be redone"
But the game designer were like "but it is more fun to have all those melee sword units , they looks cool and make a good counter to spear units"

It is funny how newer total war games tend to become more of a spear sword cav games.
And yet , 200 men spear vs 200 men sword.

 

[AwesomeButton]

They want stupid archer who can shoot like guided missile.

This just reminded me once again how far ahead for its time Myth: The Fallen Lords was. Much truer realtime (with pause) wargame than anything else I can think of.

 

[Narax]

Did she just say that being transparent is bad? and of course the simps on reddit will upvote anything she says. Also gotta love the last patronizing sentence telling the fans to behave.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

I just want more monsters to buy.

Kind of enjoying seeing the world /r/totalwar burn

 

[Burning Bridges]

There is one common mistake it didn't do.
That is having large block of pure katana samurai unit.

There were the No-Dachi Samurai which I found a bit odd.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Did she just say that being transparent is bad? and of course the simps on reddit will upvote anything she says. Also gotta love the last patronizing sentence telling the fans to behave.

I'm tempted to go and reply that the simple solution to the problem he is whining about is for players not to buy their games from greedy corporations who are too big to make a coherent development roadmap because they are constantly recalculating how best to milk players.

We need to extend the codexian discourse of speaking truth to power outside the codex. Deus Vult!

 

[downwardspiral]

There is one common mistake it didn't do.
That is having large block of pure katana samurai unit.

There were the No-Dachi Samurai which I found a bit odd.

I know they can't resist to add "special units" into it. They also have those Naginata samurai.
But shogun 2 have basic katana samurai, it is even worse.

If they even try to be a bit serious about sengoku era's combat, they will make all units mixed units.
And pure cavalary units will be few or zero.
There will also be no pure samurai and pure ashigaru units.
The exact detail of how each clan fought is depends on period and how much records they have.
But the idea is, they seldom have big single type weapons block.

And it is more of a shooting war than a melee war most of the time.

But hey, any sengoku era games that don't mentioned Japanese slinger (いんじ) but katana and naginata is a BS game.
It is a symbol that they just want cool weapons but have no respect for mundane but real efficient and lethal weapons.


I found it pretty retard all modern warfare game people at least know how infantry squad works to some degree.
But in ancient battle, people will think it is fine to have 200 single type weapon group.

I blame this on total war.

 

[downwardspiral]

They want stupid archer who can shoot like guided missile.

This just reminded me once again how far ahead for its time Myth: The Fallen Lords was. Much truer realtime (with pause) wargame than anything else I can think of.

The old real time tactical games tend to try something new, but once it got popular, they often just make it more streamlined and abstract in a spreadsheeting way.
It is why people need to keep migrating from games to games once it become popular. Not because one want to be edgy but the game just tend to change in that direction once it become popular.

 

[JarlFrank]

And they hate mixed units because they want rock paper scissor micro management.

That's the worst bit.

I'm not big into the Sengoku period and have no idea how they fought IRL, but I'm a big fan of ancient, medieval and early modern warfare, and mixed units are absolutely required to portray those eras.
Ancient Persian infantry with a rank of shield-bearing spearmen in front and two ranks of archers behind.
17th century tercios with a block of pikemen surrounded by musketeers and a few swordsmen mixed in.

None of this can be portrayed with TW's system, it's very noticeable in mods set during the 30 years war. You have pike units and gun units but you can't perform proper pike and shot tactics because it's impossible to have the two formations interact with each other the way they historically did.

 

[downwardspiral]

And they hate mixed units because they want rock paper scissor micro management.

That's the worst bit.

I'm not big into the Sengoku period and have no idea how they fought IRL, but I'm a big fan of ancient, medieval and early modern warfare, and mixed units are absolutely required to portray those eras.
Ancient Persian infantry with a rank of shield-bearing spearmen in front and two ranks of archers behind.
17th century tercios with a block of pikemen surrounded by musketeers and a few swordsmen mixed in.

None of this can be portrayed with TW's system, it's very noticeable in mods set during the 30 years war. You have pike units and gun units but you can't perform proper pike and shot tactics because it's impossible to have the two formations interact with each other the way they historically did.

Same, I am not really trying to be picky about historical accuracy.
But if anyone see a game about modern army , even if it is arcade game that doesn't try to be realistic.
Having things like "General, we need to send your 1911 handgun company!" then you have a unit of 100 men who all equip handguns, that sounds silly even for arcade game isn't it?
But that is what most games done to ancient battle.

Ancient persian are famous for their combined arms, not "200 shield infantry block" + "200 archer block" they fight as one combined unit, they cover each other.
Japaanese sengoku era's common units are made of sonae

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/備


Roughly few hundreds men.
They have OOB, and have spearman, archer, matchlock, slinger, cavalry all into this unit.
Each clan has their own style, but the idea is they pretty much fight like modern army squad-platoon-company-battalion formation.
And the cooperation of spear and ranged weapon is in the very basic level, not higher level like company size (100-200 men, like total war games)
There is no "cavalry trying to steal enemy archer block" type of micro management counter in this kinds of warfare.

It is not really trying to be nitpicking but even normal hollywood portray of modern warfare is less wrong than games talking about ancient warfare simply because the misconception of OOB.

 

[A horse of course]

/ourguy/'s OFFICIAL statement

 

[InspectorRumpole]

They're probably making the new 3K Epic Exclusive :trollface:

 

[Dwarvophile]

what a shitshow !

 

[AwesomeButton]

/ourguy/'s OFFICIAL statement

In the cyberpunk thread someone asked me why do I say that Agile development in games leads to shit games.

This is why, and what's worse, it leads to scammed players who bought the Next Big Title at full price, on the assumption that "they will keep adding content". It's disgusting what the companies are doing.

 

[Burning Bridges]

But hey, any sengoku era games that don't mentioned Japanese slinger (いんじ) but katana and naginata is a BS game.

what game is not BS ?

I blame this on total war.

Yes yes yes blame it all on Total War

 

[AwesomeButton]

Since some guy rated me "Butthurt" - I don't own 3K or ever really played it. Just feeling sorry for the people who got swindled.

 

[downwardspiral]

But hey, any sengoku era games that don't mentioned Japanese slinger (いんじ) but katana and naginata is a BS game.

what game is not BS ?

I blame this on total war.

Yes yes yes blame it all on Total War

I am not blaming shogun 1 as a game.
I am saying the TW community went shit when TW game treated as a historical game.

There are different level of BS. If I made a game about European pike and shot warfare but everyone is fighting with only rapier in a formation of 80 - 100 men.
That is what shogun 1 looks like.

And I don't want to dig deep into other historical details.
But early total war never try to be historical accurate much. At least from anyone who has the extreme basic understanding of sengoku era. It is pretty clear they make "fun" as their primary goal.
They have innovative combat system, not historical but new combat system that is different to other games.

It all ruined when it become a historical game yet no one care about historical battle logic.
And they also abandon much of that innovative combat system.

Total war was not the first one to invent that 200 men single weapon square but
it created too many "historical players" who went to other historical wargame and demand their game to be more like total war.

 

[Narax]

"You aren't allowed to accuse us of false advertising! corporate loves you! consume our products and shut up!"

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Not good enough. I'm both hurt and upset.

 

[Fedora Master]

It's kinda funny that out of the DLCs one isn't even related to the 3 Kingdoms period.

 

[Theodora]

/ourguy/'s OFFICIAL statement

He's a tool chasing ad revenue through ragebait.

 

[A horse of course]

/ourguy/'s OFFICIAL statement

He's a tool chasing ad revenue through ragebait.

"meh I don't care"

This is what incandescent fury looks like to a WEEKENDER

 

[Theodora]

Lol, some madlad wrote a 'poem' about this. It's not Pound's Cantos, andmost "G*mer Art" is inherently cringe, but making that work at all bilingually took some effort.

This is what incandescent fury looks like to a WEEKENDER

No, but he latches on to every story that has upset people because he knows it gets clicks, even (especially) when he hasn't anything useful to say.