Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cryomancer]

It's obvious that there is a difference in company philosophy here. Larian thinks all it's fans are brain dead(they are), need to be babied(they do), and any inconvenience they may have might set them off(they will). Owlcat respects it's players and believes that they will be able to figure things out and overcome adversity. Owlcat believes in me as I believe in them.

Yep. If modern game journalists aren't saying shit like "is overwhelming" about a RPG game, is because the game target audience are brainlets. You can also see the different design philosophy just looking on resting on the two games. There are a lot of checks and interesting mechanics like corruption on Wrath, ability to scribe scrolls, etc. On BG3 you teleport to a camp and that is it. You can rest after every encounter with no downside. Solasta and KoTC2 also did resting much better. Ohhh wait, they did everything better.

Except by graphics, there is nothing better on BG3 over the other 3 games.

Ascend the JRPG master race.

Imagine if Larian forced you to play BG3 as Astarion. That is how I fell about JRPG's, they force the most boring character upon the player, while the villains in particular are so cool...

And I an serious. Bugthesda games except by teh failure 79, failure 4 and etc offers more immersion than Larian ones.

 

[Saravan]

That's why other places, even 4ch, tend to lock threads until there's something actually worthwhile to post about. And I don't mean the n-th funny meme post by the devs.

The codex is a lot better than 4chan, we don't need to be taking tips from them. Last thing we want is a bunch of internet janitors thinking they know best and trying to control conversations and what we talk about. It's bad enough the mods here show their faces as much as they do.

Swen : "spell slots aren't intuitive"
OwlCat : "Pick this two spellbooks on the vancian magical system. Manage spell memorization, caster level, spell penetration, concentration, etc; for two classes, one leveling with XP and other with milestone leveling which has a separated system with unique feats. And here is a pet unique for your class where you can customize and level up as any character"

It's obvious that there is a difference in company philosophy here. Larian thinks all it's fans are brain dead(they are), need to be babied(they do), and any inconvenience they may have might set them off(they will). Owlcat respects it's players and believes that they will be able to figure things out and overcome adversity. Owlcat believes in me as I believe in them.

Overcoming adversity, lmao, are we still talking about video games?

You remind me of this guy:

 

[anvi]

And I an serious. Bugthesda games except by teh failure 79, failure 4 and etc offers more immersion than Larian ones.

I mostly agree.

 

[Desiderius]

Imagine if devs sucked journo cock like Owlcat is doing with Carnage but instead of dumbing down the game or giving them a voice part they actually taught them how to handle a few things, built their confidence, then let them experience nailing a tough encounter.

Yes, I know it’s been tried before. The level of difficulty is roughly on the equivalent of splitting the atom. But just think if it could be pulled off. Journo might talk to journo and who knows what kind of shit could break out.

Competent journos - yes, too much to ask - but how about just trying to be competent. Stranger things have happened. Not many, granted.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

By the way, when I say that despise its flaws this game has countless examples of things done properly OR BETTER I refer to details like these:





And there are plenty more.

Honestly how many games would have bothered adding this sort of detail for scenarios that 99% of the players would hardly ever think to put to test?

 

[Cryomancer]

Considering that at lv 1 we fight mindflayers and escape a spelljammer ship from Far Realm who fought a army of dragons, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be? Will probably be something ultra epic like the dead 3 being revived and your party fighting then, at lv 8~10 obviously.

 

[Zeriel]

That's why other places, even 4ch, tend to lock threads until there's something actually worthwhile to post about. And I don't mean the n-th funny meme post by the devs.

The codex is a lot better than 4chan, we don't need to be taking tips from them. Last thing we want is a bunch of internet janitors thinking they know best and trying to control conversations and what we talk about. It's bad enough the mods here show their faces as much as they do.

Swen : "spell slots aren't intuitive"
OwlCat : "Pick this two spellbooks on the vancian magical system. Manage spell memorization, caster level, spell penetration, concentration, etc; for two classes, one leveling with XP and other with milestone leveling which has a separated system with unique feats. And here is a pet unique for your class where you can customize and level up as any character"

It's obvious that there is a difference in company philosophy here. Larian thinks all it's fans are brain dead(they are), need to be babied(they do), and any inconvenience they may have might set them off(they will). Owlcat respects it's players and believes that they will be able to figure things out and overcome adversity. Owlcat believes in me as I believe in them.

Eh I think it's as simple as developers actually playing or being hobbyists in the stuff they adapt. That was the special sauce of BG 1 & 2 too, as was made explicitly clear in that retrospective interview where Oster (I think it was him?) said that most developers on BG were college kids who played D&D at the time and some of the most famous and beloved encounters were their pet projects whipped up on the side.

Once you stop developing and creating as an artist for your peers as a fellow hobbyist, and start pandering to a consumerist audience, it's fucking over.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Considering that at lv 1 we fight mindflayers and escape a spelljammer ship from Far Realm who fought a army of dragons, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be? Will probably be something ultra epic like the dead 3 being revived and your party fighting then, at lv 8~10 obviously.

We aren't fighting a single mindflayer except a half-crushed, already-dying one. And even that manages to represent a deadly threat for the player at this stage.

I'm not a fan of "super-epic" vibe in the prologue myself but let's be real: we are being mostly witnesses without ever actually facing any deadly high level threat.
Some of you guys surely love to be whiny hyperbolic bitches about trivialities.

 

[d1r]

Considering that at lv 1 we fight mindflayers and escape a spelljammer ship from Far Realm who fought a army of dragons, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be? Will probably be something ultra epic like the dead 3 being revived and your party fighting then, at lv 8~10 obviously.

They bring back Imoen and you will finally be able to marry her.

 

[Shrimp]

By the way, when I say that despise its flaws this game has countless examples of things done properly OR BETTER I refer to details like these:

Spoiler

And there are plenty more.

Honestly how many games would have bothered adding this sort of detail for scenarios that 99% of the players would hardly ever think to put to test?

Coincidentally the second video also shows how stealing items always makes the NPC behaviours fall apart at the seams because they're scripted to try to find and catch a thief.
Both examples are indeed good examples of attention to detail and how developers can anticipate different actions by the players. But when a prisoner randomly decides it's time to stop from covering in a corner in order to seek out some random junk from a nearby crate only to retreat back to his corner and initiate dialogue that implies he hasn't spoken with you 5 seconds ago? Nah fuck that

 

[ERYFKRAD]

, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be

Divinity Dragon Commander: Burn the mages edition.

 

[Gargaune]

Considering that at lv 1 we fight mindflayers and escape a spelljammer ship from Far Realm who fought a army of dragons, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be? Will probably be something ultra epic like the dead 3 being revived and your party fighting then, at lv 8~10 obviously.

We aren't fighting a single mindflayer except a half-crushed, already-dying one. And even that manages to represent a deadly threat for the player at this stage.

I'm not a fan of "super-epic" vibe in the prologue myself but let's be real: we are being mostly witnesses without ever actually facing any deadly high level threat.
Some of you guys surely love to be whiny hyperbolic bitches about trivialities.

Looks like Intellect Devourers got the everloving shit nerfed out of 'em in 5E. Either way, it's not that trivial a complaint, all of this balls-out boom-boom Michael Bay-riding-an-octopus-dragon-through-hell exposition will rob the plot of a grounded progression and discovery and lead to a process of supernatural inflation in the fiction. I don't think you'll end up battling divine avatars in the finale, at level 12 or whatever, but I wouldn't really be surprised if you do. It's a shame, but it seems these are the costs of marketing to millennial Marvel-addled audiences.

 

[Anonona]

I had been thinking about the "concurrent turn" feature of the game, the one that lets you play two characters in the same turn by switching freely between them if their turns are one after the other. What is interesting too is that in multiplayer it allows multiple players to do their turn at the same time without having to wait instead. So let's assume for discussion sake that the AI theoretically could do the same and play their turns at the same time. How feasible would it be, then, to buff necromancy, which is in quite a bad spot in 5E, to allow players to summon a decently big amount of undead that act all the same turn and are AI controlled? Would it perhaps be too powerful if all of them move the same turn? What kind of things could Larian homebrew to take advantage of this system?

Although I'm not sure if the AI can actually make use of this mechanic to be honest. Haven't played the game yet.

 

[Reinhardt]

will rob the plot of a grounded progression

BG... Grounded... Nigga, both BG games started with powerful mages exploding bunch of people with pew pew spells. In cutscene.

 

[Desiderius]

Considering that at lv 1 we fight mindflayers and escape a spelljammer ship from Far Realm who fought a army of dragons, how do you guys think that the end game of BG3 will gonna be? Will probably be something ultra epic like the dead 3 being revived and your party fighting then, at lv 8~10 obviously.

We aren't fighting a single mindflayer except a half-crushed, already-dying one. And even that manages to represent a deadly threat for the player at this stage.

I'm not a fan of "super-epic" vibe in the prologue myself but let's be real: we are being mostly witnesses without ever actually facing any deadly high level threat.
Some of you guys surely love to be whiny hyperbolic bitches about trivialities.

Looks like Intellect Devourers got the everloving shit nerfed out of 'em in 5E. Either way, it's not that trivial a complaint, all of this balls-out boom-boom Michael Bay-riding-an-octopus-dragon-through-hell exposition will rob the plot of a grounded progression and discovery and lead to a process of supernatural inflation in the fiction. I don't think you'll end up battling divine avatars in the finale, at level 12 or whatever, but I wouldn't really be surprised if you do. It's a shame, but it seems these are the costs of marketing to millennial Marvel-addled audiences.

I mean Tuco Benedicto Pacifico does have a point but you’re right that 99% of the effort is on the movie part rather than the game part. You’ve got a movie of very uneven quality with a game tacked on here.

Salient feature of both vids is how much both involve the player sitting back and watching the (fairly cliched) action. It’s regression back to passive entertainment from the active play breakthrough of Pong and the great games which grew out of that.

No accident that the big bucks are on the passive side. Not very wise for us to be.

 

[Cryomancer]

will rob the plot of a grounded progression

BG... Grounded... Nigga, both BG games started with powerful mages exploding bunch of people with pew pew spells. In cutscene.

Nothing comparable. A commoner on Faerun probably never even heard about "spelljammer ship", "crystal sphere", "far realm", "realmspace" but magic is not something "alien" in Ferun. Mainly close to candlekeep. "Grounded" is in relation to the fictional world. Not with IRL.

 

[Reinhardt]

but magic is not something "alien" in Ferun.

Yeah, sure. They didn't even stopped trading to watch half of the district exploded. Business as usual.

 

[Zeriel]

Also not sure the comparison holds at all. BG2 is a different game and is actually high level, but the BG1 "wizards pew pewing" is Gorion casting... Magic Missile, a level 1 spell, and then getting torn apart by Sarevok, who is basically just a fighter in plate mail.

 

[Reinhardt]

BG1 "wizards pew pewing" is Gorion casting... Magic Missile, a level 1 spell

First he exploded Sarevok underlings and then facetanked few direct hits from 2h sword. Remember OUR first meeting with mage on Friendly Arm Inn stairs?

 

[Zeriel]

BG1 "wizards pew pewing" is Gorion casting... Magic Missile, a level 1 spell

First he exploded Sarevok underlings and then facetanked few direct hits from 2h sword. Remember OUR first meeting with mage on Friendly Arm Inn stairs?

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what your gripe is. Is it that level 1 characters in D&D have less HP than level 10 characters?

 

[Reinhardt]

BG1 "wizards pew pewing" is Gorion casting... Magic Missile, a level 1 spell

First he exploded Sarevok underlings and then facetanked few direct hits from 2h sword. Remember OUR first meeting with mage on Friendly Arm Inn stairs?

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what your gripe is. Is it that level 1 characters in D&D have less HP than level 10 characters?

Gorion is high level mage. Actually he's much stronger than anything player can achieve. Watch how fast he casts. I'm saying that if engine could support high level spells during BG1 time Gorion would be casting flashier shit.

 

[Gargaune]

BG games started with powerful mages exploding bunch of people with pew pew spells

This argument's been beaten to death in this thread, but I'll summarise it once more for your benefit - BG1 kicks off with a mysterious ambush in the woods and, relative to the setting's ficiton, a wizard throwing spells at some platemail-wearing morderhobo is nothing outlandish. Illithids, Gith, Devils etc. are. Characters used to work up to that sort of content, it wasn't a case of "I saw an Intellect Devourer the other day, disgusting creatures."

I mean Tuco Benedicto Pacifico does have a point but you’re right that 99% of the effort is on the movie part rather than the game part.

He does, but my argument is that the plot tips its hand with a lot of high-level cards right at the start. As a matter of necessity, it will have to up its ante even more as it progresses. And I get it, dwarves and wizards have become mundane to modern audiences, you now need to feature interdimensional hentai blimps in your teaser to even get them to look up from their pocket-sized meme dispensers.

 

[Larianshill]

This thread is a localized proof that time goes in circles, and grandfathers repeat the mistakes of their grandsons. There are three sorts of conversations here:

1) "Wizards are weak, and Larian hates them. Back in my day, disintegrate..."
2) "Spelljammers and mind flayers are not an appropriate start to a game." vs "Saverok and Gorion were just as epic!"
3) "Why didn't Larian implement this backwards and/or unnecessary thing their customer base doesn't want?"

Very occasionally, it takes a break to discuss something like paladin eunuchs, before the wheel of time restarts again. I pray lord Swen will release this thread from this miserable loop with a fresh batch of content, but even that might be not enough to break the spell.

 

[Cryomancer]

3) "Why didn't Larian implement this backwards and/or unnecessary thing their customer base doesn't want?"

A option to speed up/skip animations, concurrent turns and option to increment the damage from both sides is not "unnecessary things"

 

[Gargaune]

their customer base