Pathfinder Kingmaker is better than Baldur's Gate

[Desiderius]

Yeah, I have a feeling if they really embraced the sandbox nature of it and spent the time on those horrible companions on making the world more reactive to the player instead it would have been something really special.

The kingdom management seems irredeemable to me though. Oh great, I have 11 loyalty. Wow. Something like number of loyal swords, tax collectors and forts or really anything else would have been more fun.

You... never even bothered to figure out why any of it mattered. You never even discovered any of the itemization, did you.

You phaggots all fell for a release day meme.

 

[Desiderius]

Or, you know, play a game I enjoy.

Twat.

You would have enjoyed this one if you hadn't fallen for some clowns saying it sucked and never figured out how to play it.

 

[AdamReith]

Yeah, I have a feeling if they really embraced the sandbox nature of it and spent the time on those horrible companions on making the world more reactive to the player instead it would have been something really special.

The kingdom management seems irredeemable to me though. Oh great, I have 11 loyalty. Wow. Something like number of loyal swords, tax collectors and forts or really anything else would have been more fun.

You... never even bothered to figure out why any of it mattered. You never even discovered any of the itemization, did you.

You phaggots all fell for a release day meme.

If the game has any charm, it hides it incredibly well. I've spent at least two BG1 completions worth of time on it, maybe there is a secret way to play it that makes it enjoyable but I'm not sticking around to find it.

Glad you enjoy it though. We don't have to all like the same things.

 

[Desiderius]

Of course. I just think people feel so pressured to have a judgy take they don't take the time to make sure their priors are solid.

If you enjoy Wrath I think someday you'll come back and find a gem here. A frustrating gem but one that will surprise you nonetheless.

Also, I play with no sound so that could be helping me not retch.

 

[AdamReith]

Of course. I just think people feel so pressured to have a judgy take they don't take the time to make sure their priors are solid.

If you enjoy Wrath I think someday you'll come back and find a gem here. A frustrating gem but one that will surprise you nonetheless.

Also, I play with no sound so that could be helping me not retch.

It's pity there isn't more in the way of mods. I couldn't even find one to remove the -4 malus to custom characters as advisors.

Though from what you say maybe it also needs a better tutorial. A spiritual sequel to BG that sucks if you try to play it like BG is... Questionable.

 

[smaug]

Even though I never finished BG2 and only played 3 chapters (most of the content.). It's first 3 chapters are better than the entirety of BG1, except for Durlag's and some good content which is few and far between.

 

[Desiderius]

When you guys say that PK had better quests...what are you talking about? Can't remember anything near cool as , say the Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest, Firkraag or Umar.

Dungeons are pretty good. That dog in Lostlarn sold me.

The double world lantern thing never really worked so that hurt but figuring out which companions fit well with which challenge (this doesn't work in BG because inactive companions don't gain EXP) and how that was integrated into the plot added a lot of interest/replayability as did foes that forced you out of your comfort zones and made you attack their weaknesses and do what it took to discover what those were. The downside of a game where your skills really matter is people who are only half engaged missing half the game but there's a lot of depth there.

There were big bads up there with Firkraag but many were easy to miss.

 

[Desiderius]

Though from what you say maybe it also needs a better tutorial. A spiritual sequel to BG that sucks if you try to play it like BG is... Questionable.

Well if you tried to play BG like PoR you'd think it sucked too. It's a matter of playing the game on it's own terms. Wrath has a vastly superior tutorial.

And it's not just a spiritual sequel to BG but also to games much older than that.

The game isn't designed for mercs. Play the companions - there's enough good ones to cover your advisor needs and other NPCs you can also use.

CotW mod is one of the most comprehensive out there.

 

[AdamReith]

Though from what you say maybe it also needs a better tutorial. A spiritual sequel to BG that sucks if you try to play it like BG is... Questionable.

Well if you tried to play BG like PoR you'd think it sucked too. It's a matter of playing the game on it's own terms. Wrath has a vastly superior tutorial.

And it's not just a spiritual sequel to BG but also to games much older than that.

The game isn't designed for mercs. Play the companions - there's enough good ones to cover your advisor needs and other NPCs you can also use.

CotW mod is one of the most comprehensive out there.

That's the thing, apparantly the companions have no actual input into the main story line and don't really need to exist at all. I was going to roll and entire party of mercs until I found out about the malus.

Anyway, I realise you wouldn't want to deprive yourself of being smothered by Regongar's kisses and I guess most of the fanbase feels that way too. So no mod.

 

[Sarathiour]

That's the thing, apparantly the companions have no actual input into the main story line and don't really need to exist at all.

Except they do, two of them at least have a major role in the main story line. And most of them react in some kind of manner if you bring them somewhere they have ties with.

 

[The Jester]

Get the Kingdom Resolution so you can manage the kingdom from any region

 

[AdamReith]

That's the thing, apparantly the companions have no actual input into the main story line and don't really need to exist at all.

Except they do, two of them at least have a major role in the main story line. And most of them react in some kind of manner if you bring them somewhere they have ties with.

Ah, that's a shame.

 

[AdamReith]

Just while we are discussing this again. Is there a good guide anywhere that desribes how to play and have fun with this game? Something I could use next time I decide to give it a shot?

Also, just a question on realm stability. Once you get to worried it's like a penalty on everything else you do, right? Is this is as retarded as it sounds? How do you get out of that hole?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Great topic worthy of discussion. First, I think they need to be viewed as their respective and individual wholes (all expansions + DLC). Mods are not to be considered. The main challenge is in how criteria are weighted. Pathfinder vs AD&D 2E have a massive disparity in sophistication. That gives Kingmaker a critical edge, but execution becomes a real issue. In a comparison with unweighted categories, Kingmaker is better than Baldur's Gate 1, but slightly lesser than Baldur's Gate 2 in terms of overall quality and enjoyment. Even with categories unweighted, many direct comparisons are very close calls. The Varnhold and Barbarian chapters drag out the game and the NPCs are dreadful, but Kingmaker's true sin is the absent AI. All of the nuance, minutiae, and sophistication of the improved ruleset amounts to only modest difference in party tactics when compared to the Baldur's Gate adaptation of D&D 2E.

I would rank Kingmaker over Baldur's Gate 1, but contend that Baldur's Gate 2 is still slightly superior as a whole package. It's a very contentious conclusion though.

 

[Thac0]

Also, just a question on realm stability. Once you get to worried it's like a penalty on everything else you do, right? Is this is as retarded as it sounds? How do you get out of that hole?

Upgrading the stability rank of your kingdom once puts the overall mood higher aswell. But it is easier to never let it drop. Never let your BP reserve go below 100, that is the easiest way to lose a rank when it dips below zero through a lost event.

 

[Desiderius]

Get the Kingdom Resolution so you can manage the kingdom from any region

Or just play the fucking game like a non-retard. You rank up your kingdom to unlock buildings that allow that. That mod fucks everything up completely, locking you out of the itemization and global buffs (like mental immunity!). You can even adjust the KM difficulty in the settings.

 

[Desiderius]

That's the thing, apparantly the companions have no actual input into the main story line and don't really need to exist at all.

Except they do, two of them at least have a major role in the main story line. And most of them react in some kind of manner if you bring them somewhere they have ties with.

Ah, that's a shame.

It's a shame that the game features robust C&C? The different locations/dungeons are designed around the strengths and weaknesses of certain companions so part of the challenge is putting together the right team for each one, like Jagged whatever that Lilura likes. I don't get never even getting into a game so sucking at it then complaining about the shit you never even got to. It's not Icewind Dale, you don't make your own party. You know, like the other game that's the topic of this thread. It was a mistake to add merc functionality in the first place for just this reason. The malus is there because minmax tards would just design mercs as advisors and miss all the interplay there.

 

[Desiderius]

Just while we are discussing this again. Is there a good guide anywhere that desribes how to play and have fun with this game? Something I could use next time I decide to give it a shot?

Also, just a question on realm stability. Once you get to worried it's like a penalty on everything else you do, right? Is this is as retarded as it sounds? How do you get out of that hole?

Yeah a lot of the people who didn't get really get to square one evidently got thrown off by the stability. Apparently because most thought that raising taxes would be just the thing to make their people happy. Typical progtard mistake.

Definitely should be more transparent and easier to effect.

 

[AdamReith]

That's the thing, apparantly the companions have no actual input into the main story line and don't really need to exist at all.

Except they do, two of them at least have a major role in the main story line. And most of them react in some kind of manner if you bring them somewhere they have ties with.

Ah, that's a shame.

It's a shame that the game features robust C&C? The different locations/dungeons are designed around the strengths and weaknesses of certain companions so part of the challenge is putting together the right team for each one, like Jagged whatever that Lilura likes. I don't get never even getting into a game so sucking at it then complaining about the shit you never even got to. It's not Icewind Dale, you don't make your own party. You know, like the other game that's the topic of this thread. It was a mistake to add merc functionality in the first place for just this reason. The malus is there because minmax tards would just design mercs as advisors and miss all the interplay there.

Yeah, it would be terrible if people were able to play a sandbox game in a non-prescriptive way.

Thank god they are keeping away the min-max tards, I fucking hate those guys! +1 this, +1 that. Posting screenshots of crits, sad!

 

[Desiderius]

It's not a fucking sandbox game!

Where did you ever get that idea. That's the whole problem right there.

KINGmaker! You think a king can afford to play around in a sandbox?

I post screenshots because idiots like you say that companions suck and that you have to multi-class. My screenshots show single-classed companions dominating Unfair.

I can go all day. You're just regurgitating all the dipshit memes that have plagued this game since day one of release. Decent chance once you work through your issues you might even find a game to enjoy somewhere in there.

 

[AdamReith]

It's not a fucking sandbox game!

Where did you ever get that idea. That's the whole problem right there.

KINGmaker! You think a king can afford to play around in his sandbox?

Let's be honest, it's a game with so many badly integrated ideas it's kind of undefinable.

Definitely points for ambition though, absolutely.

 

[AdamReith]

I can go all day. You're just regurgitating all the dipshit memes that have plagued this game since day one of release. Decent chance once you work through your issues you might even find a game to enjoy somewhere in there.

I am just sharing my thoughts after playing it for a good many hours. If none of my points are original, maybe that tells you something?

Anyway, you are obviously a bit mental and I don't see a link to any guides or anything so I will leave you be.

 

[Saravan]

I like PF:KM, it has its flaws yes, but it's a really good game. The rabid fans however are fucking insufferable. Desiderius does four (!) posts in a row because some random dude on the internet doesn't agree with him that this game is the next coming of jesus. The rest of these people are hanging out in the BG3 thread treating it like their personal diary for their traumatic childhood.

Anyways, the best parts that I liked about PF:KM was definitely the in-depth build mechanics and combat. Very well made and the overall game philosophy is being unforgiving to the player. You have to put an effort to achieve things, I like that. However, disregarding the most obvious flaw that is the kingdom management, the companions didn't engage me at all and there were serious moments of gaming fatigue. I distinctively recall the part where you travel like a damn snail through a mountainous region in the end game being hammered with random encounters. Things like that is just bad game design and completely unnecessary.

 

[King Crispy]

Solasta is better than both.




































































I'm actually not trolling.

 

[Desiderius]

I am just sharing my thoughts after playing it for a good many hours. If none of my points are original, maybe that tells you something?

Anyway, you are obviously a bit mental and I don't see a link to any guides or anything so I will leave you be.

That's the point. They're not your thoughts. You're parroting memes that aren't true and you never got around to playing the game that actually exists because all you saw were those memes.

I didn't post a guide because the fun is in playing around with it and figuring things out for yourself - it's a throwback to games back when you had to do that because there was no internet.

I missed out on most of the early memes because I was on the fence about playing it at all until five months in and struggled with the same shit you did at first because of the memes I was aware of. I expected to need a build guide (you don't, the system is designed around single-classing) and the stuff I did read turned out to do me more harm than good. That's the only reason I get "mental" about people panning the game based on the same shit that led me astray.

Only thing I tell new players is to use a Bard since they get double action economy compared to BG, don't raise taxes, and turn on show location names so that you don't miss the Treasurer Gnome. The rest people can figure out for themselves and enjoy doing.