Which game killed the shooter genre?

[Caim]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

 

[fork]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

 

[Jenkem]

the thing w/ Doom 2016 is that the marketing heavily focused on the multiplayer. when the game came out people found out the campaign was actually good. it was entirely poor marketing decision to focus on multiplayer

 

[Machocruz]

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

I thought the Doom reaction was more 'yay it's not terrible' than 'legit stunning and brave'. But I don't profess to have been paying much attention to the saga of that release

 

[gerey]

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

I really dislike this line of thinking - blaming games like Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Dark Souls and now Doom for "killing" a genre is just silly. How many unsuccessful CoD and WoW "killers" have been released in the past 15 years?

It's the fault of the gaming industry being full of unimaginative hacks that try to copy a formula without understanding why it appeals to audiences or why it works on a mechanical level.

To take NuDoom as an example, the glory kills exist to encourage the player to be aggressive and in-your-face with the enemies, which is a departure from the now thoroughly overused Halo/CoD formula of hiding behind cover as your health/shield regenerates. We can argue if this "evolution" was any better than the nu-shooters we had previously, but the fact remains that the glory kills are there for a specific reason.

On the other hand, if you're some hack developer and only copy the glory kill system because that's all your zoomer brain is capable of seeing, without taking into account every other design decision in NuDoom, then you've already failed.

And that's true for all other "killer" copycats too. A game is the sum of its parts, blatantly copying one mechanic without trying to puzzle out why that mechanic is in the game, or how it synergizes with the rest of the gameplay, leads to cheap knockoffs.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

Bitch you are talking nonsense CoD killed the FPS genre nuDoom is as close to a return to form as wer are going get.

And it's not the game's fault if other devs didn't get the glory kills served a particular gameplay style (nuDooms are all about taking you out of your comfort zone) and weren't just for flair. The very fact there hasn't been a game quite like the nuDooms yet shows that modern devs are as retarded as ever and if it wasn't nuDoom they'd still be making retarded CoD clones instead and if someone were to make a popular retro shooter they'd find a way to fuck that up too by copying all the wrong shit for the wrong reasons.

I was actually HOPING for a clone of the nuDooms with perhaps less retarded try hard and better writing. But nope. Modern devs are too stupid to even get something like nuDoom let alone any classic shooter.

 

[Curratum]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

Bitch you are talking nonsense CoD killed the FPS genre nuDoom is as close to a return to form as wer are going get.

Wrong. Half Life 1 killed the FPS genre long before CoD 1 was even a thing.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

Bitch you are talking nonsense CoD killed the FPS genre nuDoom is as close to a return to form as wer are going get.

Wrong. Half Life 1 killed the FPS genre long before CoD 1 was even a thing.

I think CoD was worst because it achieved fame among normies and low IQ dude bros. Half Life remained a game for nerds and hipsters. It did change the genre but good shooters were still made aferwards. It ushered an era of shooters focused more on realism rather than gameplay centered abstractions but it didn't necessarely lead to shit games.

CoD however did.

 

[fork]

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

To take NuDoom as an example, the glory kills exist to encourage the player to be aggressive and in-your-face with the enemies, which is a departure from the now thoroughly overused Halo/CoD formula of hiding behind cover as your health/shield regenerates. We can argue if this "evolution" was any better than the nu-shooters we had previously, but the fact remains that the glory kills are there for a specific reason.

Bullshit. Shooters don't need glory kills to encourage aggressive play. Level, encounter and enemy design and AI are plenty enough to make a popamole playstyle unviable. I suggest you play the original Doom, Doom 2 or some other 90s FPSs. You're right that the glory kills are there for a specific reason though: to look cool and attract retards. They take away control from the player in a FPS, they are QTEs, they are bad.

 

[fork]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

[...]

I'm surprised that you of all people are defending nuDoom. Seriously.

Upgrades and glory kills, every new level looking as bland as the one before, as linear as Painkiller or Serious Sam, or even Call of Duty (which all are much better FPSs than nuDoom).

Call of Duty (the first couple of entries) were better games than nuDoom, and were never meant to replace the Dooms and Quakes. They were another take on the FPS formula, a more realistic yet still arcadey FPS. Something between Doom and Battlefield. I didn't like them very much, and of course what they have become is a fucking joke. But nuDoom (and Quake Champions btw) killed the AAA fast paced first person singleplayer (and multiplayer) shooters by compromising core design principles associated with them in the '90s and early 2000s, like item pick ups and entirely skill-based play.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The lesson here, so far, is that what you imagine could be wil always be more interesting than what actually turns out to be.

Being underwhelmed by the trailer, people are now falling back to 'well I trust from software, so...' But that is also and still their hopeful imagining.

When has a long anticipated, major release gone from tepid reveal to a stunning final? More oft it is the other way around.

How much cope will this whole affair ultimately yield, I wonder

IIRC Doom 2016 went from a lukewarm initial reveal to exasperation when the multiplayer beta dropped to an almost single-handed revival of the shooter genre.

?

Doom 2016 is utter shit. If anything, it killed the shooter genre for good, because ever shooter needs glory kills now.

[...]

I'm surprised that you of all people are defending nuDoom. Seriously.

Upgrades and glory kills, every new level looking as bland as the one before, as linear as Painkiller or Serious Sam.

Call of Duty (the first couple of entries) were better games than nuDoom, and were never meant to replace the Dooms and Quakes. They were another take on the FPS formula, a more realistic arcadey FPS. Something between Doom and Battlefield. I didn't like them very much, and of course what they have become is a fucking joke.

But nuDoom (and Quake Champions btw) killed the AAA fast paced first person singlplayer (and multiplayer) shooters by compromising core design principles associated with them in the '90s and early 2000s, like item pick ups and entirely skill-based play.

nuDoom killed the fast paced AAA shooter? Are you serious bro? Those games are veritable spazzlord clusterfucks.

I don't know what the hell you were playing but nuDoom basically brought multiplayer shooter gameplay to single playter:



The basic design principle of this game is to take you out of your comfort zone by any means necessary. The level of skill required to play the game as the devs intended far exceeds that of most shooters out there and even that of a lot of past shooters.

Which of course doesn't automatically mean the gameplay is better just because it is harder but having a modern dev company make a game with this kind of difficulty is definitely something notable.

If there's anything wrong with the game is precisely that it is too arcade-like for its own good, which goes for Eternal more so than Doom 2016. You can accuse nuDoom of many things (simplistic level design, retarded try hard attitude, fourth-wall braking shit like 1UP lives, collectibles, stupid looking monster pignatas and so forth), but the one thing you can't critisize this series for is that it isn't fast paced when it feels like you have to literally shoot cocaine into your veins to actually play it properly.

I tried some of the CoD and Battlefield games and the style they came up for nuDoom is WAY better. It's not even a constest.

 

[fork]

Yep, you're actually retarded (well, I knew that, but I thought you were retarded in a good way, lel).
Play Quakeworld, Warsow or even Quake 3 (OSP or CPMA, doesn't even matter). Or AvP, haha.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Multiplayer games are on a different category and cannot be compared with any single player shooter, no matter how difficult it may be. But nuDoom had nothing to do with the downfall of the arena shooter. Consoles and then Fortnite did that. nu-id were smart enough to understand there was no way to make classic multiplayer work on consoles which is why they didn't even bother with Eternal.

 

[fork]

Multiplayer games are on a different category and cannot be compared with any single player shooter, no matter how difficult it may be. But nuDoom had nothing to do with the downfall of the arena shooter. Consoles and then Fortnite did that. nu-id were smart enough to understand there was no way to make classic multiplayer work on consoles which is why they didn't even bother with Eternal.

Then play Doom, some of the more slaughterish wads, or Quake singleplayer. Both are way better than nuDoom. Or Painkiller, or AvP, or even Exhumed/Powerslave.
You're confusing skill for good gameplay. Skilled people can make most games look cool (on the surface). Including Fortnite or Starcraft 2. Still, SC2 and FN are shit compared to Broodwar and good FPSs.

You're also being apologetic about devs developing for console primarily. Just in case you didn't realise. What the fuck happened to you?

 

[mogwaimon]

Multiplayer games are on a different category and cannot be compared with any single player shooter, no matter how difficult it may be. But nuDoom had nothing to do with the downfall of the arena shooter. Consoles and then Fortnite did that. nu-id were smart enough to understand there was no way to make classic multiplayer work on consoles which is why they didn't even bother with Eternal.

Then play Doom, some of the more slaughterish wads, or Quake singleplayer. Both are way better than nuDoom. Or Painkiller, or AvP, or even Exhumed/Powerslave.
You're confusing skill for good gameplay. Skilled people can make most games look cool (on the surface). Including Fortnite or Starcraft 2. Still, SC2 and FN are shit compared to Broodwar and good FPSs.

You're also being apologetic about devs developing for console primarily. Just in case you didn't realise. What the fuck happened to you?

he's not even arguing that nuDoom is better than old school shooters, it obviously isn't. He's saying that your assertion that nuDoom 'killed the shooter genre' is wrong and that nuDoom is less shitty than the rest of the modern shit that's come out as FPSes. In case you hadn't noticed, the 'AAA fast paced singleplayer shooter' genre that you say was killed by nuDoom had been long dead up to that point; there were good or okay shooters between the advent of CoD and the release of nuDoom, sure, but they were ALL a far cry from the FPSes of yore and whatever they took from the old school they inevitably took three or four times as much from CoD's influence.

What would you even consider to be in that genre anyways past CoD Modern Warfare? Halo series? Decent but nothing like old school shooters. Gears of War? also decent but still nothing like old school shooters. Serious Sam? That's not even AAA. I can't even think of another series or prominent game in that time period that isn't a CoD copy/paste. Maybe the Timesplitters series but that's probably 'console garbage' to you so that wouldn't fly and it's not exactly AAA either.

 

[Israfael]

Then play Doom, some of the more slaughterish wads, or Quake singleplayer

Game with literal autoaim and slow-ass gameplay I get the complaints about level-design, plot and whatnot, but if you believe that Eternal and 2016 killed the FPS genre, just ask the avid lovers of modern military shooters what they think of Eternal. Most of them (especially the ones that can't git gud and found that they are shit when they started pre-nerf UAC on Nightmare) say "it's a moba", "games are supposed to get you relaxed" and so on . And if you try to take on Halo 2 in the same style as ZeroMaster on the highest difficulty, you'll be just eventually one shotted, great design and challenge.

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

Autist discussion ITT, it's simple actually:
FPS, and all MP games tbh, died when devs stopped allowing player made servers and forced everyone into their shitty matchmaking systems.

Simple as. Discussion closed.

 

[fork]

Then play Doom, some of the more slaughterish wads, or Quake singleplayer

Game with literal autoaim and slow-ass gameplay [...]

Yeah, Doom has vertical auto aim due to limitations of the engine, and still is a better shooter than Doom 2016, by lightyears, you fucking imbecile.

Autist discussion ITT, it's simple actually:
FPS, and all MP games tbh, died when devs stopped allowing player made servers and forced everyone into their shitty matchmaking systems.

Simple as. Discussion closed.

That's actually an important aspect, but even with dedicated servers, nuDoom and all these other modern shit games would still be demonstrably worse than the classics.

 

[Multidirectional]

Painkiller is not a better shooter than Eternal though. Not even close. Better atmosphere, sure, but gameplay in Eternal is much more fun.

 

[fork]

Painkiller is not a better shooter than Eternal though. Not even close. Better atmosphere, sure, but gameplay in Eternal is much more fun.

It's not.

Better weapons, better level design, better music, better atmosphere, better gameplay. Painkiller is better in every metric that counts, despite being a disappointment when it released. nuDoom is such fucking terrible manure that a mediocre FPS from 17 years ago (which I coincidentally just replayed)* is so much better that it's not even funny anymore.

*see here

 

[Delterius]

stop talking about first person shooters in my third person soul arrow simulator thread

 

[fork]

stop talking about first person shooters in my third person soul arrow simulator thread

Look, I'm trying to educate and silence these motherfuckers, but they just won't listen.
You're right though, and I apologise to you personally and everyone hyped for Elden Ring and annoyed by my ramblings.

 

[Multidirectional]

gabel 100 identical enemies running at you in a straight line - better gameplay than Eternal. Maybe you just have no clue what good gameplay even is. Painkiller is enjoyable but really not that great.

 

[fork]

gabel 100 identical enemies running at you in a straight line - better gameplay than Eternal. Maybe you just have no clue what good gameplay even is.

Fuck you, faggit, I promised Delterius to stop derailing the thread (well, I didn't, but I do now!).

I prefer hundreds of identical enemies swarming me on interesting maps over a dozen or so shitty pseudo imps at a time because the nuDoom engine isn't able to render more at a time. The encounter design in Painkiller is so much more interesting than in any of the nuDooms that, were I faggot, I'd consider putting you on my ignore list for spouting such nonsense, retard!

Delterius, I'm sorry, this shall be my last OT post in this thread. Please forgive me.

 

[cvv]

This thread needs more Doom discussion.