KickStarter Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[Grampy_Bone]

Pathfinder gives you 15 different ways to take a level of monk + crane wing + shatter defenses.

Solasta lets you miss miss miss miss miss miss miss oh whoops he was one tile outside of the light radius cast light miss miss miss miss miss miss...

*sigh* NWN2 is such a low bar to clear and yet, here we are...

 

[Lhynn]

Man, that's awesome you guys figured out a way to break the game and end up with AC over 30. I finished it with three characters at 22 or so and one at 20 and there were some challenging encounters but I finished it and had a good time doing so. Not a perfect game but looking forward to what else comes out of it.

But thank you guys for doing the hard work of playing the game that way so that we all know how high you can get your AC and make every encounter trivial. Your sacrifice is not in vain.

Dont think having high AC trivializes every encounter. That fighter bonus wont be of much help against several enemies, as a large number of fights are in open spaces. Using a shield also keeps you from using a two hander, or two weapons, so thats a d6, a d4+str or a d8+str/dex less of damage. This is a massive loss of damage.

Then theres the saving throws, fighters suck at reflexes, so a variety of cantrips will pelt them.
Finally, like half the encounters in the game will be in the wilds, and if you dont have a ranger you will get surprised more often than not, this means you will get surrounded and wont have the chance to "Tank for your party."

Though i guess mountaineer does get pretty great if he can trip enemies for your melee dps and summons.

 

[lukaszek]

Then theres the saving throws, fighters suck at reflexes, so a variety of cantrips will pelt them.

mages seem to be quite rare... and even if there are any -> thanks to opportunity attacks being so meh its easy to take them down quickly. Or just snipe them down. Or just soak some dmg, my dworf had 120+hp after all.
Dex saves were actually high thanks to paladin aura. If I felt like its needed id take dex feat that gives prof with dex saves... but I couldnt care.

Though i guess mountaineer does get pretty great if he can trip enemies for your melee dps and summons.

Very rarely you do so, it got opposite effect on ranged party members and enemies got low ac anyway. Swap places or pushes I did execute quite often. Pushing off platforms is like 90% of what this game got to offer.


oh and regarding game being trivial once you hit lvl5, I just realized that its also about dungeons exploration. Cool hidden areas that you need to cleverly jump to seem to be gone. Even if they existed they get trivial when your party members climb on the walls and fly

 

[Old Hans]

man I thought this game performed pretty well on my old PC..until I hit skull tower. Areas with lots of thick grass that just murder my framerate for some reason. Then I hit the next area with the waterfall and I dont know what the hell the deal is with that, but that river tanks my framerate.
even with everything turned off these areas are just super demanding. its so weird

 

[Lacrymas]

man I thought this game performed pretty well on my old PC..until I hit skull tower. Areas with lots of thick grass that just murder my framerate for some reason. Then I hit the next area with the waterfall and I dont know what the hell the deal is with that, but that river tanks my framerate.
even with everything turned off these areas are just super demanding. its so weird

It's made with Unity.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I don't mind the item attunement limits so much, but concentration is annoying. Ooh, I'd like to try out that new spell here! Oh, that cancels my concentration? Never mind then. How about this one? No, okay. Then how about-- No. No. It is not allowed. Only 1 fun spell per battle.

What's even worse is that some spells don't affect the whole party. It triggers me so much that bless affects only 3 out of 4 party members. This is the first dnd game in which I wasn't using bless. You know, bless the famous spell that shows that low level spells can be useful even for high level parties.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can use a higher spell slot to make bless affect more people.

 

[Cryomancer]

I don't mind the item attunement limits so much, but concentration is annoying. Ooh, I'd like to try out that new spell here! Oh, that cancels my concentration? Never mind then. How about this one? No, okay. Then how about-- No. No. It is not allowed. Only 1 fun spell per battle.

What's even worse is that some spells don't affect the whole party. It triggers me so much that bless affects only 3 out of 4 party members. This is the first dnd game in which I wasn't using bless. You know, bless the famous spell that shows that low level spells can be useful even for high level parties.

I believe that you can heighten bless and use on 4 party members.

But yes, a lot of iconic spells are worthless on 5E. The best example is probably stoneskin. One of my favorite mid tier defensive spell on 2E/3E now is worse than 2nd tier defensive spells.

 

[Thac0]

What's even worse is that some spells don't affect the whole party. It triggers me so much that bless affects only 3 out of 4 party members. This is the first dnd game in which I wasn't using bless. You know, bless the famous spell that shows that low level spells can be useful even for high level parties.

Bless is still really good tho, at least until you reach level 5 and gain a much more potent concentration spell in spiritual guardians.
But yeah, playing 5e in video game form, the drawbacks of concentration really come apparent. Using it both as a system to limit pre buffing to one spell, and to limit the effects of potent spells to 1/character and to give the enemies a way to cancel them is too much. The system can't fulfill all of those requirements at once, and falls short on some cases.

But yes, a lot of iconic spells are worthless on 5E. The best example is probably stoneskin. One of my favorite mid tier defensive spells.

That is definitly a spell that shouldn't require concentration. It is so terrible because of it. High material cost, very specific in the type of damage it reduces, extremely easy to cancel, prevents you from casting much better spells.

 

[Shrimp]

Bless is still really good tho, at least until you reach level 5 and gain a much more potent concentration spell in spiritual guardians.
But yeah, playing 5e in video game form, the drawbacks of concentration really come apparent. Using it both as a system to limit pre buffing to one spell, and to limit the effects of potent spells to 1/character and to give the enemies a way to cancel them is too much. The system can't fulfill all of those requirements at once, and falls short on some cases.

I think the Flawless Concentration feat is pretty much mandatory in this game because of the reasons you mentioned. I'm glad I picked it up on my cleric.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

You can use a higher spell slot to make bless affect more people.

I know, but I hate the idea of having to use a 2 level spell slot to have a functional bless spell.

But yeah, playing 5e in video game form, the drawbacks of concentration really come apparent. Using it both as a system to limit pre buffing to one spell, and to limit the effects of potent spells to 1/character and to give the enemies a way to cancel them is too much. The system can't fulfill all of those requirements at once, and falls short on some cases.

Yeah, the opportunity cost is really making many spells irrelevant. It's better to cast bless before fight than bane during the fight, risking the effect not being applied to every enemy.

 

[jackofshadows]

Yeah, a mode that simply cancels most concentration requirements except for the most powerful spells would be very welcome. Afterwards it would be possible to adjust the difficuly somehow and have some fun with the casters at last.

 

[lukaszek]

better use ac boost spell. No way to fail concetration if you cant get hit

 

[Parabalus]

Why did they not implement hotkeys, for anything really?

UI is slick but something like PoE's simple hover-hotkey system would be nice.

Yeah, a mode that simply cancels most concentration requirements except for the most powerful spells would be very welcome. Afterwards it would be possible to adjust the difficuly somehow and have some fun with the casters at last.

Since everything stacks, they would need to change pretty much every effect. Isn't the current implementation faithful to 5E?

Concentration is pure incline tbh, adding an opportunity cost to spells, instead of brainless chaincasting.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Concentration is pure incline tbh, adding an opportunity cost to spells, instead of brainless chaincasting.

Concentration makes casting a lot less fun. The opportunity cost of spell should be resource spending.

 

[Cryomancer]

Concentration is pure incline tbh, adding an opportunity cost to spells, instead of brainless chaincasting.

No. Concentration is a decline and destroy all persistent spells.

"but gurps has concentration"

Gurps spells are amazing. 5E spells are probably the second worst spells of tabletop gaming, losing only to D&D 4E spells. 5E introduced concentration only because a lot of DMs was dumb enough to never think on the possibility of dispelling player magical effects.

 

[Parabalus]

Concentration is pure incline tbh, adding an opportunity cost to spells, instead of brainless chaincasting.

Concentration makes casting a lot less fun. The opportunity cost of spell should be resource spending.

What resources?

There's rest spamming and limitless gold here, like in most CRPGs.

Concentration is pure incline tbh, adding an opportunity cost to spells, instead of brainless chaincasting.

No. Concentration is a decline and destroy all persistent spells.

"but gurps has concentration"

Gurps spells are amazing. 5E spells are probably the second worst spells of tabletop gaming, losing only to D&D 4E spells. 5E introduced concentration only because a lot of DMs was dumb enough to never think on the possibility of dispelling player magical effects.

Putting casters down a notch is a good thing, let's everyone else at the table have more fun.

You're quite biased towards only casters being real PCs, while everyone else is delegated to just support.

Party member contribution in Solasta feels much more equal than in other games.

 

[Cryomancer]

let's everyone else at the table have more fun.

You're quite biased towards only casters being real PCs, while everyone else is delegated to just support.

Not truth. On video games, I tend to pick necromancer but in table, I tend to pick alteration and be the guy who cast stonesking in the fighter, invisibility in the rogue and so on. Concentration makes the "group buffer" style of play for Wizards worthless. Also, I praised the Tome of Battle which makes martials supernatural too. And they aren't limited to spells per day.

As I've said many times, the solution to the caster X martial imbalance is to improve martials instead of making everyone eqqually boring to play.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Not truth... I praised the Tome of Battle which makes martials supernatural

You're quite biased towards only casters

He's not wrong, Meredith

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

What resources?

There's rest spamming and limitless gold here, like in most CRPGs.

Spell slots.

If you show some self restraint and don't rest after every encounter you will be rewarded with a more fun system than the one with concentration. Concentration is a typical solution worse than a problem. and for a limitless gold you need to grind random encounter. Not difficult to show a restraint here.

 

[Cryomancer]

Also, solasta already limit where you can rest. Similar to KoTC1.

He's not wrong

Supernatural and magical are two different things. A Barbarian can have 22 STR making him having superhuman strength and no magic. Psionics, Magic and combat maneuvers are completely different things.

 

[Lacrymas]

Concentration is an ok compromise between having buffs and having a bajillion buffs you have to cast every combat encounter (*cough* Pathfinder, 3.5E *cough*). Something has to be done about the uncontrollable and pointless buffing.

 

[Anonona]

If you show some self restraint and don't rest after every encounter you will be rewarded with a more fun system than the one with concentration. Concentration is a typical solution worse than a problem. and for a limitless gold you need to grind random encounter. Not difficult to show a restraint here.

Also, solasta already limit where you can rest. Similar to KoTC1.

I found that even with the limited rest spots and avoiding resting more than once or twice in the same spot the game hardly presents any real challenge beyond the firsts levels, even in the highest difficulty. I would say though, despite the "questionable" final level, the fact that there were no resting spots did make you consider more closely what to use compared to the rest of the game, as there were no "rest points" before the final boss. Wouldn't mind Solasta 2 to focus more on long dungeons and resource management a bit more.

Yet if the player has to go out of his way to handicap himself, then the fault of the game does not cease to exists.

 

[Cryomancer]

Concentration is an ok compromise between having buffs and having a bajillion buffs you have to cast every combat encounter (*cough* Pathfinder, 3.5E *cough*). Something has to be done about the uncontrollable and pointless buffing.

Do you know that every magic effect can be removed by a successful dispel, right? And that enemies can buff too, right?

I played a bit of PvP on NWN1 and NWN1:EE. Without buffs like spell mantle, deathward, etc, the PvP would last a single round(6 sec). Mainly because casters has poor FORT save. You can easily have flesh to stone, finger of death, etc; on DC > 30, while the save of a lv 20 caster would be like 12 on the best case scenario.

On Pathfinder Kingmaker, Spawn of rovagug has a ability which devours enemy magic(persistent spells, buffs, anything) and use the magic energy of this spells, to heal himself.

A tournament like this can't work without pre combat buffs >>>

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Yet if the player has to go out of his way to handicap himself, then the fault of the game does not cease to exists.

Is not rest spamming handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not grinding random encounters handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not using a very specific build that trivializes the game handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not using alchemy to become a god after several minutes in Morrowind handicapping myself or not cheating?

I don't think that every interaction allowed by the game should be used if you want to have a lot of fun. Often those exploitable interactions are a price to be paid for complexity of the game. It's something you use on your x playthrough to have fun breaking things.