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Matalarata

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I admit I have exagerated my story ( for the sake of science, mind you :obviously:). But the point still stands. I know the quirks and the tiers benefit everything, but in case of the Gauss this means overkill range and velocity, you very rarely get to shoot at targets so far away. While the heavy rifle, (which maybe you forgot but should be a sub-par 'primitive' weapon, only used against 'mechs in the direst of circumstances) gets a much larger effective increase in rate and damage. I'm not saying it's better than a Gauss but it's half its weight, slottable in a medium and does more damage on an alpha strike which, 75% of times, is all you need to strike down a target, making its slow reload moot.

You have a point in saying that the increase in stat is linear across the board but they (those I call newb) also have a point. PGI took a random piece of outdated tech and turned it into something that can stand against one of the most powerful weapon in the game. If heavy rifles weren't outperforming Gauss for the general public, they wouldn't be as popular as they are, am I wrong?
 
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Shitty Kitty

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Heavy Rifle ammo is 12 shots per ton.
Gauss ammo is 26 shots per ton.

True, but the Gauss is 15 tons. Gauss + 26 shots = 16 tons. Heavy Rifle + 36 shots + 5 heatsinks = 16 tons, with more outright damage potential.
The Gauss Rifle is 5 times the cost, the weapon itself can explode if critted making it a bit less likely to survive a rough mission than the Heavy Rifle.
The strongest case for the Gauss centers on the low heat generation, minimal if any ballistic arc and excellent shot velocity, which are definitely strong selling points for it as a sniper tool.
They're both rather slow-firing, the Gauss is faster on a followup by a bit but with longer-ranged pinpoint frontload followups can be considered a lesser concern as it might indicate you're under-utilizing a precision weapon.

Overall the Gauss is actually the better weapon in its role but better enough to warrant this state of weapon balance when compared against (of all things) a Primitive-tech weapon? I dunno, I really don't understand why we're dusting off Primitive tech to fill the gaps here when there was already a massive amount of extant variance in Autocannon behavior canonically and thus opportunity to explore different weapon characteristics via sidegrading ACs and such with different manufacturers, specs, etc. If we're just kind of crapping on lore here why not just bring in some of the Civil War tech like Light ACs? Why not give ACs specialty ammo like Precision etc.? Just feels like PGI, in their laziness, ended up taking a far more circuitous route than necessary.
 

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Heavy Rifle ammo is 12 shots per ton.
Gauss ammo is 26 shots per ton.

True, but the Gauss is 15 tons. Gauss + 26 shots = 16 tons. Heavy Rifle + 36 shots + 5 heatsinks = 16 tons, with more outright damage potential.
The Gauss Rifle is 5 times the cost, the weapon itself can explode if critted making it a bit less likely to survive a rough mission than the Heavy Rifle.
The strongest case for the Gauss centers on the low heat generation, minimal if any ballistic arc and excellent shot velocity, which are definitely strong selling points for it as a sniper tool.
They're both rather slow-firing, the Gauss is faster on a followup by a bit but with longer-ranged pinpoint frontload followups can be considered a lesser concern as it might indicate you're under-utilizing a precision weapon.

Overall the Gauss is actually the better weapon in its role but better enough to warrant this state of weapon balance when compared against (of all things) a Primitive-tech weapon? I dunno, I really don't understand why we're dusting off Primitive tech to fill the gaps here when there was already a massive amount of extant variance in Autocannon behavior canonically and thus opportunity to explore different weapon characteristics via sidegrading ACs and such with different manufacturers, specs, etc. If we're just kind of crapping on lore here why not just bring in some of the Civil War tech like Light ACs? Why not give ACs specialty ammo like Precision etc.? Just feels like PGI, in their laziness, ended up taking a far more circuitous route than necessary.
I'm giving the ammo info cos readers don't know and need to take it into consideration.
You don't bring 1 ton of ammo, I bring 8.5 tons of H.rifle now, legs and head only hold 5 ammo slots, being ammo inefficient increases the risk of ammo explosion as you bring more and you may have other weapons ammo.
Gauss gun explodes but the ammo doesn't, I can slot the gauss ammo in unsafe areas letting other weapon ammo take the safer slots.
Both guns have explosion risks, you also have it evaluate it against other guns, going AC may be the safer route than H.rifle.

Rarity and replaceability is the bigger issue. Gauss is lostech, you get it from loot, Cantina missions or late game market, H. Rifle from black market but top tier ones you get from Cantina missions as well.
It is easier to get 4 tier gauss rifles late game from market than to get H.rifle from blackmarket, but slightly easier to get 5 tier H.Rifle from Cantina. Either way losing either 5 tier ones will hurt and it is not the cost but replacing them with Cantina missions or finding them in the market.

The 5 tier gauss rifle ROF isn't faster by a bit, it is 47% faster, it is 66% faster at 1 tier.
H. Rifle is 11% higher dam at 5 tier but 20% higher dam at 1 tier.
H. Rifle heat is 55% of damage at 1 tier, it is hotter than a medium laser.

I've used the lower tier H.rifle, it isn't that good going high tier fixes some of the issues.

I'm not surprised PGI went this route, their MO for peddling new things in MWO was typically to roll out overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W, game balance for balance's sake was not really a consideration - it was just another carrot/stick to chase players into buying stuff. It's funny to see it being translated to a single-player game DLC, I'll admit. It's also pretty funny that they decided to use things like Rifles for this. Not sure anyone expected them to try to dust off/reinvent Primitive tech as a new hotness.
You were saying Heavy Rifle is OP shit that came dangerously close to P2W, I am disagreeing with this, it is good but it has drawbacks, which is very apparent if you play the game and use the lower tier ones.

I admit I have exagerated my story ( for the sake of science, mind you :obviously:). But the point still stands. I know the quirks and the tiers benefit everything, but in case of the Gauss this means overkill range and velocity, you very rarely get to shoot at targets so far away. While the heavy rifle, (which maybe you forgot but should be a sub-par 'primitive' weapon, only used against 'mechs in the direst of circumstances) gets a much larger effective increase in rate and damage. I'm not saying it's better than a Gauss but it's half its weight, slottable in a medium and does more damage on an alpha strike which, 75% of times, is all you need to strike down a target, making its slow reload moot.

You have a point in saying that the increase in stat is linear across the board but they (those I call newb) also have a point. PGI took a random piece of outdated tech and turned it into something that can stand against one of the most powerful weapon in the game. If heavy rifles weren't outperforming Gauss for the general public, they wouldn't be as popular as they are, am I wrong?
I'm the one who told you that the heavy rifle is good, you don't have to tell me the good points.
I'm pointing out the drawbacks of the heavy rifle because people are saying it is "overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W", they didn't even use it, just basing on what you say and you didn't mention the weaknesses.
Gauss and H. Rifle have the same range, I constantly fight at long ranges.
The lead time is noticeable for Heavy Rifle but it is still easy to hit, it is easier to headshot with gauss.
Alpha strike doesn't kill in one shot 75% of the time, unless you are only talking about using 4 H.rifles, small mechs or shooting them in the head or back, I could be using 1 to 3 heavy rifles, aiming to salvage, remove high threat weapons first, fast moving targets, more than 1 target all these make ROF important.
This is what I actually experience while running the 3 H.Rifle mech, while running the lower tier H. rifles with other mechs I'm rarely going to 1 shot anything. Try using a normal rifleman with 2 2-tier heavy rifles or a vulcan with 1, not munchkin mechs, the 3 heavy rifle Cataphract mech requires a Hero mech and can barely fit anything else in.
The biggest issue with Gauss is it is large slot, I can't mount 3 of them and blast mechs away but I can mount 3 or 4 heavy rifles.
 
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Matalarata

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You were saying Heavy Rifle is OP shit that came dangerously close to P2W, I am disagreeing with this, it is good but it has drawbacks, which is very apparent if you play the game and use the lower tier ones.

Dafuq? OP shit? Pay2win? I just said there's a thread on steam where new players are discussing the value of even having a large balistic slot. I think you mistook me for someone else (pun intended) or you completely misread my message. I don't use hvy rifles myself.

m the one who told you that the heavy rifle is good, you don't have to tell me the good points.

Err... No you told me about flamers. I asked you if you had any build around hvy rifles (which you kindly provided) just because I've never tried before and I like to discuss games with other interested people. I don't need anyone to teach me how to play MW, I've been messing around with this franchise for years, sorry but that's how I see it.

I'm pointing out the drawbacks of the heavy rifle because peole are saying it is "overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W", they didn't even use it.

Yes, but I never said so myself. Again, I'm only amused by the fact PGI took an underperforming primitive weapon and turned it into something that can stand against the best. The only thing separating Gauss from Rifles? Skill. Gauss is an heavy tonnage investment which really pays out if you can actually capitalize on its strength. Rifles are something anyone can mount (lower tier rifles compete against AC, if you didn't realize, at least they do so for less competent players) with an immediate benefit. The way the game is designed, favouring close range alpha strikes, doesn't help to really make the Gauss a better choice for a new player.

Imagine if the next WH40 rts presented old world machine guns as teh new shiet, able to pierce Astarte's combat armor. Many would cringe, BT is just a less known franchise.

The lead time is noticeable for Heavy Rifle but it is still easy to hit, it is easier to headshot with gauss.
The biggest issue with Gauss is it is large slot, I can't mount 3 of them and blast mechs away but I can mount 3 or 4 heavy rifles, OTOH I'll rather mount 3 or 4 LBX10 and mow down entire assault lances singlehandedly.

All this is gud and well. I'm a Gauss man myself, I tend to favour chassis that actually have large b. hardpoints, I also find the AI extremely good with both Gauss and PPC. This doesn't address the point though, you learned the game, I learned the game, those that didn't yet really can't see the benefit in long range engagement, in many cases. Give new players a weapon that outperforms the best at short-mid range and they will happily jump on it.

As a final note, I'd like to point out that you made a storm out of a shitpost I made to prank Cael just a bit. It was tongue in cheek and never meant to be a commentary on the value of the game or its expansion, I fail to see how you could misread my message so much.
 
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someone else

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Dafuq? OP shit? Pay2win? I just said there's a thread on steam where new players are discussing the value of even having a large balistic slot. I think you mistook me for someone else (pun intended) or you completely misread my message. I don't use hvy rifles myself.

Shitty Kitty said:
I'm not surprised PGI went this route, their MO for peddling new things in MWO was typically to roll out overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W, game balance for balance's sake was not really a consideration - it was just another carrot/stick to chase players into buying stuff. It's funny to see it being translated to a single-player game DLC, I'll admit. It's also pretty funny that they decided to use things like Rifles for this. Not sure anyone expected them to try to dust off/reinvent Primitive tech as a new hotness.
I was replying to Shitty Kitty's quote about MWO P2W translated to single-player DLC not yours, it is a continuation of my reply to him.

Matalarata said:
Err... No you told me about flamers. I asked you if you had any build around hvy rifles (which you kindly provided) just because I've never tried before and I like to discuss games with other interested people. I don't need anyone to teach me how to play MW, I've been messing around with this franchise for years, sorry but that's how I see it.

Matalarata said:
Another question, open to anyone.
Have you managed to succesfully build around heavy and med rifles? Damage and precision are top notch but the combination of ultra slow reload and extremely limited ammo is a dealbreaker... I do use the light model on some smaller mechs with decent, if limited, results.
Ok, this was the post I thought you didn't know how good heavy rifles are.

Matalarata said:
As a final note, I'd like to point out that you made a storm out of a shitpost I made to prank Cael just a bit. It was tongue in cheek and never meant to be a commentary on the value of the game or its expansion, I fail to see how you could misread my message so much.
Oh I know it is a prank and initially ignored it but certain replies annoyed me enough to make me post.
 
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Shitty Kitty

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I'm pointing out the drawbacks of the heavy rifle because people are saying it is "overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W", they didn't even use it, just basing on what you say and you didn't mention the weaknesses.

I was replying to Shitty Kitty's quote about MWO P2W translated to single-player DLC not yours, it is a continuation of my reply to him.
The DLC weapons aren't P2W but they look poorly balanced at least on sheet and I'm pointing to PGI's past history of pants-on-head balance passes with MWO as evidence that they neither know how to balance for fun nor are they particularly inclined to if they feel they can use "NEW! SHINY! AWESOME! GRAB DEAL NOW!" to sell DLC/mechpacks/whatever.

Also with the decision to make all IS mechs act like they have Clan-tier CASE wherein an ammo explosion will never do more than destroy the component in which it is located the Gauss' explosive nature becomes way less about mech survivability per se and more about the weapon's survivability - where if you got lovetapped on an exposed component containing a HR it might be damaged, might be destroyed, you might get lucky, but you run no risk of it just exploding when tapped. A crit that affects a Gauss Rifle-containing location and tags the Gauss WILL ROLL for explosion chance, and it WILL destroy the expensive weapon and anything else in there with it if the roll comes up bad for you. You can critpad to reduce the chance that Gauss gets tagged, but you're like as not to see the Gauss be the one getting tagged anyhow and you lose whatever else is in there. Also if you're loading ammo into legs/head first (and 5t is bonkers for one weapon really) the chances of the AI hitting it are very low due to how AI tends to target (you'd have to do something really silly like shave leg armor down quite low).
 
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someone else

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I'm pointing out the drawbacks of the heavy rifle because people are saying it is "overpowered shit that came dangerously close to P2W", they didn't even use it, just basing on what you say and you didn't mention the weaknesses.

I was replying to Shitty Kitty's quote about MWO P2W translated to single-player DLC not yours, it is a continuation of my reply to him.
The DLC weapons aren't P2W but they look poorly balanced at least on sheet and I'm pointing to PGI's past history of pants-on-head balance passes with MWO as evidence that they neither know how to balance for fun nor are they particularly inclined to if they feel they can use "NEW! SHINY! AWESOME! GRAB DEAL NOW!" to sell DLC/mechpacks/whatever.
MW5 has lots of OP weapon mods, don't really need to pay cash for OP weapons, maybe console peasants have issues with mods, don't really know what goes on there.
In some areas H rifles are good, in others no, I prefer to bring AC over H.rifles many times yet I understand when ppl say it is better than gauss.

Shitty Kitty said:
Also with the decision to make all IS mechs act like they have Clan-tier CASE wherein an ammo explosion will never do more than destroy the component in which it is located the Gauss' explosive nature becomes way less about mech survivability per se and more about the weapon's survivability - where if you got lovetapped on an exposed component containing a HR it might be damaged, might be destroyed, you might get lucky, but you run no risk of it just exploding when tapped. A crit that affects a Gauss Rifle-containing location and tags the Gauss WILL ROLL for explosion chance, and it WILL destroy the expensive weapon and anything else in there with it if the roll comes up bad for you. You can critpad to reduce the chance that Gauss gets tagged, but you're like as not to see the Gauss be the one getting tagged anyhow and you lose whatever else is in there. Also if you're loading ammo into legs/head first (and 5t is bonkers for one weapon really) the chances of the AI hitting it are very low due to how AI tends to target (you'd have to do something really silly like shave leg armor down quite low).

someone else said:
I bring 8.5 tons of H.rifle now, legs and head only hold 5 ammo slots, being ammo inefficient increases the risk of ammo explosion as you bring more and you may have other weapons ammo.
Gauss gun explodes but the ammo doesn't, I can slot the gauss ammo in unsafe areas letting other weapon ammo take the safer slots.
Both guns have explosion risks, you also have it evaluate it against other guns, going AC may be the safer route than H.rifle.

I know and already replied to Gauss explosion, why repeat yourself, why are you telling me legs and head are safe when I already said it, 5 tons is enough when I said it isn't? Why tell me again that Gauss explodes when I say it does?
My quote already explained things and now I have to explain again, this isn't the first time I have to repeat myself like the pre-DLC dropship not firing. I'm getting tired of typing TLDR to ppl who don't play the DLC or read.
H. rifle is better with more than 1 and it's ammo inefficiency is why I bring more than 5 tons ammo(I bring 8.5 tons when I use 3 H.rifles on Cataphract ditching all other weapons (I also use more ammo since I aim to salvage at times).
1 ton of 1-tier H.rifle does 216 dam, gauss is 390, AC 5 & 10 is 400, which is why I say it is ammo inefficient and I have to bring more increasing the risk. This is something you will know if you actually use them.
If you are doing a 1 gun to 1 gun comparison gauss explosion is riskier, but both have higher explosion risks than AC.
Outside of armchair scenarios the difference in the rate that I lose them is insignificant.

I'm not trying to be rude but speaking of armchair scenarios a lot of argument stems from the fact that you do not play the DLC thus missing info, using 2nd hand info and conjunction.
FYI, those Union dropships with turrets in the DLC you said are enemies are actually friendlies.
 
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Shitty Kitty

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FYI, those Union dropships with turrets in the DLC you said are enemies are actually friendlies.
The green targeting brackets on the turrets indicate that, yes, they are flagged as friendly entities. I'm far more confused by the presence of SRM turrets on a Union and I'm assuming they're some sort of placeholder or PGI taking great liberty with the Union's weapons complement.
 

Fedora Master

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Looks like the patch fucked the game up a lot. Lots of people reporting bad bugs like missing industrial hubs on the campaign map.
Infantry is literally just a handful of dudes doing nothing, not waves of bodies.
 

Matalarata

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Lots of people reporting bad bugs like missing industrial hubs on the campaign map.

Also, equipping any item on any 'mech has any instance of the same item (so, same name and same tier as the one you install) removed from your inventory.

The workaround for weapons is to use different tiers of the same item in different slots, good luck being able to equip a single heat sink + a single double HS tho. Apparently, it's just an UI issue and the fix is coming.
 

lightbane

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Wow, that almost makes HBStech seem well-designed.
To think things have gone so bad in the last decades...
 

lightbane

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Talking of old things, does anyone have the latest copy of the Mekpak expansion for MW4? I believe the last update was 2020 before everything mysteriously disappeared.

EDIT:

Nevermind, it was easy to find even if the official servers are down. Internet Archive has a copy, and so does Mod DB.
 
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mediocrepoet

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I recently started this. It is pretty shit, but I am really enjoying it :)

My take away has been: it's pretty shit, but it's pretty shit. I'm hoping it picks up a bit later, but who knows?

I haven't played any of the other games of this sort before, but this one feels pretty arcade-y to me. I much prefer the tactical and SRPG mech games apparently.

Still, it's kind of cool firing lasers and watching them light up the cockpit, etc.
 

anvi

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Yeah, for me it feels like the Comanche series, which was like an FPS except you are hovering. There are a few things I enjoy about this, but it mostly does things which were the cheapest/weakest option. I can live with that for lots of things, the graphics are obviously cheap but it looks quite nice to me most of the time. But most things I can't live with like how shallow it is and how small the maps are, how linear and basic the gearing of the mechs is, etc. It would be so nice if they could have made it like an RPG where you can try various 'builds' instead of being stuck with x y z mechs which you can only do minor tweaks to. Also the enemy AI is really good but the team mate AI seems shitty and you barely get any controls over them. They are forever in front of me even though I have the most armor by far and I can actually shoot stuff :P They run into my fire, etc. Also the Xcom map thing is not very well done either. It's again the cheapest and weakest option. A much better alternative being something like Space Rangers 2. I think given how weak this game is they should have cut half the features and just focused on the absolute basics, even that I'm not sure they could have done well.

That said, I'm reputation/rank 5 ish and wanna blow up a few more. If it had some progression and interesting weapons to look forward to, I would be excited. But I get the feeling I've seen most of what the game has and if so I'll be bored v soon.
 
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My take away has been: it's pretty shit, but it's pretty shit. I'm hoping it picks up a bit later, but who knows?
nope, sorry. the best time is in the beginning, when you use what you have, constantly scambling for scraps, when looting a large laser or a ppc is a big deal. once you put together a decent lance you don't have and don't want to experiment anymore. and money is abundant and stuff is cheap.
 

mediocrepoet

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My take away has been: it's pretty shit, but it's pretty shit. I'm hoping it picks up a bit later, but who knows?
nope, sorry. the best time is in the beginning, when you use what you have, constantly scambling for scraps, when looting a large laser or a ppc is a big deal. once you put together a decent lance you don't have and don't want to experiment anymore. and money is abundant and stuff is cheap.

Yeah, I should have clarified: I barely have any time at all in the game, so it's possible that I'll get into it more with some more time spent. I've barely passed the first few missions. Maybe ~2 hours into it...

Either way, the equipment scarcity wasn't quite what I was getting at. My issue was more that feeling the arcadey movement and systems was a bit offputting. It's something I didn't really notice in watching people's videos, but I felt it while playing the game myself. So it's possible I'll get used to it and appreciate it, or it's possible that more time will just reinforce my first impressions which is basically janky FPS while moving a relatively agile tank.
 

anvi

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The big ones are like riding a camel.
 

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