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Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth 2: Soulblighter

0wca

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Didn't find a topic on this, so I was just wandering what the Codex thinks about these two old-school, cult-classic strategies?

I like it a lot, but I'm probably biased as fuck as it's insane nostalgia factor. Old-school bungie was the shit. Also the soundtrack was really fucking good. AND you can play both campaigns in coop and it has direct IP support.

I won't mention the third one because it's not worth mentioning.





 
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luj1

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They are prestigious games, I remember Soulblighter. Grim world, cool art and even some physics. Units were cool in their own way, nothing like using Molotov throwing dwarves to bust up the undead. Actually I am often imagining how would a spiritual successor look like in my head, with the Light and Dark armies and no base building and all.
 
Glory to Ukraine
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I love all three. Myth series is IMO an epitome of truly storyfag RTS (only the first Ground Control game comes close), the briefings were likely the best I have ever seen in any game. And setting up explosive traps with dwarfs was fun as fuck. It would be great if someone got hold of the IP and make another one (there was some Myth clone released a while back, but apparently it wasnt very good).

Honestly I dont see what problem the people have with the Wolf Age, I like it as much as the first two.
 

Faarbaute

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I loved these games. Replayed them both recently and they still held up in my opinion.

I was actually going to make a thread and ask if anyone has any games to suggest in the same vein as these but to my knowledge there's nothing quite like them.

I'd love to scratch that itch again.
 
Glory to Ukraine
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There was Deadhold



But apparently it sucks and you cant even buy it anymore...

There is also Nordic Warriors



didnt play it, but seems rather meh...
 

Demo.Graph

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"Black Company" the game.
Arguably "Gardens of the Moon" as well, though that one is a weaker analogy and weaker overall.
 

Faarbaute

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There was Deadhold



But apparently it sucks and you cant even buy it anymore...

There is also Nordic Warriors



didnt play it, but seems rather meh...

I've looked at Nordic Warriors before but it just rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe if you get desperate enough, it'll do.
 

Lemming42

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I like the games but I always felt like I was playing them wrong. Everyone stands back while one dwarf goes ahead, then kites enemies while throwing explosives. Maybe have a row of elves nearby to lend cover fire. Reload 300 times until it works.
 

Lord of Riva

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They are great games, it's true what Lemming42 said in most campaign missions it boils down to dwarfs and Archers/elves since it is simply to expensive to risk you melee chars.

The atmosphere was gloriously dark and I loved that. It's something i miss these days a lot where we seemingly think that things lightened in brown and gray is evil (or whatever Tyranny tried to do, which was just comically evil).

Nothing beats hearing a Trow running at you with loud thuds and them literally just kicking a dwarf into an Exploding mess of guts.
 

0wca

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Grim world, cool art and even some physics. Units were cool in their own way, nothing like using Molotov throwing dwarves to bust up the undead.

The world's atmosphere was incredible and it was mostly relayed through the narrator and the soundtrack which sounded so incredibly bleak and yet slightly hopeful. It really fits the theme of the game.

And the satisfaction of a dwarf blowing up a bunch of undead is incredibly satisfying. And incredibly infuriating when the molotov ends up a dud.


I like the games but I always felt like I was playing them wrong. Everyone stands back while one dwarf goes ahead, then kites enemies while throwing explosives. Maybe have a row of elves nearby to lend cover fire. Reload 300 times until it works.

You were probably playing on normal difficulty. Try that shit on heroic or legendary. I guarantee you it doesn't work. Your dwarves get mowed down because the fast enemies specifically seek them out (I was playing both campaigns through Myth 2 so that may have had an impact on the AI, not sure).

The atmosphere was gloriously dark and I loved that. It's something i miss these days a lot where we seemingly think that things lightened in brown and gray is evil (or whatever Tyranny tried to do, which was just comically evil).

Nothing beats hearing a Trow running at you with loud thuds and them literally just kicking a dwarf into an Exploding mess of guts.

I was scared shitless of those Trow as a kid. They were smart too, they kept avoiding you until you were occupied with other enemies. Then they started to slowly creep in.
 

jac8awol

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Every few years I rewatch those journal briefings to remind myself what storytelling should be like.
 

Maggot

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Infantry should be used to mop up after dealing damage with your ranged units. Worked no problem for me on Heroic. Berserkers kick ass too and can stunlock enemies.
 

Quatlo

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With proper formation and if not really outnumbered infantry should fuck up almost every enemy in melee, especially since you weakened enemies with archer and dorf fire. I think U formation works the best in 1v1 number ratio.
Also, I stil love this game for launching a dud molotov at my own dudes in multiplayer. An absolute gem of a game from mechanical, graphical, narrative end especially technical point of view.
Too bad Deadhold was... underwhelming

Also remember, your dudes gather XP so they turn into powerhouses later on if you keep them alive. Swordguys are underappreciated
 

Lagi

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Maggot and Quatio are right! As always rpg codex opinions based on hive mind consensus not an actual personal gameplay experience.

berserk and warriors kill everything. You soften the target as best as you can, and then finish job with close combat. They are perfectly viable units. Even more if you dont save-scumming, then they save your from your errors - I love Myth for that ! Nordic Warriors have it also right, the main character female caster is dying in one hit from the zombie.

Melee guys are very tough, and You just need the speed of berserkers. Not sure if warriors have some edge over berserks? like their shield make them better in some tactics? stand your ground and eat soulless spears, till we flank the bastard?


there are some problems like with retreating Soulless that lure your berserks into ambush or Fetch (that require save load till you nailed it). Going direclty vs Trow would be just stupidly out of place (or very stupid if you play Myth3 Armored Trows), if it doesnt end with quick death of your fighters.
 

Maggot

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Not sure if warriors have some edge over berserks? like their shield make them better in some tactics?
Warriors have a chance to block attacks and I think it increases with veterancy. Berserkers are still better due to their stunlocking capabilities which means they don't get hit at all and are fast enough to dodge projectiles with a little micromanagement.
 

Dayyālu

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You were probably playing on normal difficulty. Try that shit on heroic or legendary. I guarantee you it doesn't work. Your dwarves get mowed down because the fast enemies specifically seek them out (I was playing both campaigns through Myth 2 so that may have had an impact on the AI, not sure).

I've replayed Soulblighter somewhat recently and Dwarf-abuse is perfectly viable in higher difficulties too, you just need better planning (and a bit of luck, I'll admit). The worst combo that you get are without doubt Ghols with Wight remains, the fuckers can easily one-shot dwarves and archers and often it's a throw of the dice if you manage to splat them before they splat you. Myrkridia are also difficult to approach head-on, you need some shenanigans to get them with low casualties.

I didn't like Myrkridia missions much. Particularly the Giants, often is pure luck with their goddamn explosive attack.

Warriors and Zerks are perfectly viable (even more with Heron Guards) but Myth combat is highly lethal for close combat units, and if you go for low casualties you need a careful approach and attack when you get local overwhelming force as stunlocking is a thing for you too. Fucking Myrkridia. Thank fuck they berserk and it's a free kill if properly positioned.


I won't mention the third one because it's not worth mentioning.

Mumbojumbo's attempt was misguided but not as bad as many. It has several problems:

- It frontloads some of its worst missions right at the beginning. Try playing Defense of Yursgrad on Legendary and you'll see how it was NOT playtested at all, shit is completely crazy - and this is supposed to be a "light" mission.
- Some missions are flat-out degenerate in design. The Oghre/Trow missions show a combo of incredibly shitty enemy design - the Armoured Trow for fuck's sake, who the fuck designed an enemy that needs the most excruciatingly boring tactics to defeat - and shitty mission design (capture meatheads, sacrifice meatheads to slow down Armoured Trows while you range maul them).
- Mumbojumbo's respected Myth's narrative but didn't get Myth narrative. They carefully picked names and places and events and tried to build a narrative of Epic Heroes and Strong Personalities and it just didn't work. Lack of time and playtesting caused the last parts of the campaign to become flat-out disconnected, things happen because they happen.

However, some ideas weren't bad. Expanded enemy rosters (particularly Ghols and magic enemies) could create interesting encounters. Some missions are smartly designed and valiant attempts at bossfights and siege defenses. Graphics and sound are inferior to the originals, but for early 3d games they work mightily fine (very few early 3d RTS games aged as well as Wolf Age). Methinks the problems of Myth 3 were a team less skilled than Bungie that was completely cut down by insane crunch, Wolf Age had barely any playtesting and refinement and was thrown out as it was.

Has anyone played Chimera?
 
Glory to Ukraine
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Has anyone played Chimera?

I never managed to get it to run unfortunately...


Warriors have a chance to block attacks and I think it increases with veterancy. Berserkers are still better due to their stunlocking capabilities which means they don't get hit at all and are fast enough to dodge projectiles with a little micromanagement.

Even stationary Berserkers can sometimes deflect projectiles (at least the javelins thrown by the Soulless, not sure about arrows), though Warriors are better at that with the shields. But in any case I think there is a clear progression with melee units: Warriors < Berserkers < Heron Guards.
 

Beowulf

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Mar 2, 2015
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Has anyone played Chimera?

Yes. I posted my impressions in one of the Myth threads here some time ago.
In a nutshell - It's good, on par with the main game I'd say, except for the fact that there is really a shit-ton of enemies in each mission to the point that it borders on being boring and predictable. I guess they just tried to cram combat into every nook and cranny.

There are some other campaigns that dare to be different and are also very good, like The Seventh God, etc.
Basically almost everything from Creation is good.
 
Glory to Ukraine
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Aint nothing to it, Codex made me do it!

So I tried to get Chimera running again and this time it works (dont remember what was the problem years ago, but w/e, all is well now). Three missions in and it is pretty good (the briefings arent as great as in the main games, though that is to be expected, the "militia meeting minutes" one in the third mission was hilarious though).

In any case the general Myth gameplay didnt age at all, it is still as great as I remember from about 15 years ago (sheeeit, I am old). The missions arent just about fighting, they have a real sense of adventure about them too (making your way through a dark forest full of monsters towards some ancient tomb and such), which is something you dont really see in an RTS much. Will try The Sevent God once I am done with Chimera.

Its really sad no one made a competent follow up to Myth until now - its not like the formula is that complicated...
 
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It's not about the formula being complicated, it's about most modern game developers being completely inept.

Myth had great attention to detail: projectiles had arcs and collision - arrows could bounce on trees, rain affected fire, there were physics-based interactions that, although rudimentary, affected gameplay to a significant extent.

There was very little bullshit in Myth. Modern games are 99% bullshit. Gaming took a nosedive when the people making games shifted from engineers to socjus college kids.
 

Hobo Elf

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If Myth 1, 2 & 3 got rereleases on GOG and Steam then maybe some day we'd see more indies try to tackle this genre, but as of now the series has been out of the public's memory for so long that it becomes increasingly less likely that we'll see more RTT games of its kind, save for the very rare occasion.
 

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