Explain to me the appeal of JRPGs

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I really don't get it. I can't say my experience with them is by any means extensive, but as an adult I just really don't get the appeal. My experience with them is that they're generally very easy, very grindy, and very cheesy. Even the ones I've overall enjoyed (the blobber sub-genre e.g. Etrian Odysseys and Elminage) tend to suffer from one or more of these problems.

Ones I've played:

Chrono Trigger: I played this as a kid and had fond memories of it, so I started playing it on my phone during commute or while watching TV with my son, and it's... fine? The story is engaging enough, and the graphics are generally superb, but it's super-fucking easy. I'm currently searching for the Masamune and I don't think I've ever had a single character drop below 1/3 health at any time. Part of this is that the game just showers you with a constant stream of money and restorative items, but part of it is also that the combat is very nearly braindead.

Final Fantasy VI: Graphics are nice, story is a bit silly, combat is once again really easy.

The Legend of Heroes: Trail in the Sky FC: I got maybe 1/3 of the way through this and then lost any will to live. Just an utterly boring story, with unattractive graphics, and zero difficulty. I guess I could try playing it again if I run out of sleeping meds.

Lufia: I remember liking this one a lot as a kid, but I remember barely anything else about it.

Bravely Default: Gorgeous graphics, braindead gameplay, nonsensical story.

Etrian Odysseys: Good games, love the mapping mechanic, actually have a decent level of difficulty, story is very minimal, but still suffer from extreme grind and oddly infantilizing art.

Elminage: Gothic: Probably the best out of all the ones I've played. Good difficulty, decent art, still too grindy.

Valkyria Chronicles 1: Not sure this counts. I really liked the gameplay in this, and found it to be decently difficult, but I ended up putting it down because I hated the (incredibly bloated) story, and iirc it's full of five minute long unskippable cut-scenes.

So are JRPGs just not my thing? Or is my sampling of the genre the problem?

 

[Falksi]

Your criticism of these games is very valid, but the problem here IMO is the sampling of the genre.

Just like you have a million fucktards hailing The Witcher 3, Mass Effect 2 and Skyrim as the pinnacle of gaming, so do those fucktards hail JRPGS such as Chrono Trigger, FF6 and Earthbound etc. as the pinnacle of JRPGs. They're not. They're EXTREMELY simple games, which won't stimulate or excite anyone with any real RPG experience.

Most JRPGs are simple, but there are ones who pace it and add enough elements to make playing them worthwhile. I'd suggest trying some of the following instead:

• Shadow Hearts: Covenant
• Tales of Berseria
• Lost Odyssey
• Shining Force 2
• Lufia 2

None of them offer anything anywhere near as deep as a good CRPG experience, but there's way more depth or gimmicks in those 5 than in the likes of Chrono Trigger.

 

[Thac0]

Your sampling is a ... bit strange. It covers a wide array, but in an unusual way.

Chrono Trigger and FFVI go in the same category. Very pretty character driven stories that are piss easy and do not do anything unusual with the mechanics. Those define the stereotypes of JRPGs and are many peoples first exposure.

Bravely Default is a specific callback to Final Fantasy III-V. If you dislike that in combination with FFVI it is safe to say that the Final Fantasy branch of JRPG is not for you. I just wonder how you found it braindead? It has a hard difficulty and quite complex systems. I died a few times in that, and I would put the difficulty above most western rpgs on normal and above some on hard.

As for Japanese DRPGs/Blobbers: Yeah those are nice. Since they stay much closer to the Wizardry roots they go down like butter even for crpg hardliners. I recommend Mary Skelter for more Etrian Odyssey style crawling should you run out, and Experience Inc (Sword City) for more Elminage style crawling. Also check out Dark Spire for pure Wizardry incline, only one game tho.

Valkyrie Chronicles is the only thing in that list that approaches the SRPG subgenre. Those are the equivalent to tactical rpgs, ie your Jagged Alliances and Naheulbeuks and all. Chronicles is a bit of an oddball with the open movement system, so I would call it a soft SRPG. Curious that you found it hard, I found the game piss easy, but Valkyira breaks when you find out that using the same character multiple times in a row carries barely any drawbacks. I will recommend more SRPGs at the end of the post.

Lufia is a nice classic SNES era JRPG. Luv those. Lunar 2, Lufia 2, Breath of Fire 2, there are tons of those. Usually game 1 is kinda gay and generic, and game 2 is stellar. A bit simplicistic but oozing with charm.

Trails in the Sky is a weird game. It is the slowest game ever made, and probably an example of the midwit filter. I have seen absolute retards and monocled savants praise this. I havn't quite cracked it for me yet, so I can't comment much on it.

So where is this array lacking? You didn't play a single monster catcher. Those are a staple of JRPGs, with the ubitiqous Pokemon being near synonymous with the genre overall. Luckily there is better than Pokemon for enthusiasts. All roads lead to Shin Megami Tensei here. Gritty, difficult, Pokemon but with gods from all mythologies from Christianity over Norse Paganism to Maya and Inca gods, Zorothroanism, Shinto, Hindu, Buddhism, Ancient Sumeria, you name it. There is also the casual spinoff Persona from that that introduces dating underage anime girls, if that is your thing (DO NOT).

You could also try a Japanese roguelike (Mystery Dungeon Pokemon or Shiren the Wanderer are the most sensible options), but the lack of a monster catcher is the biggest hole in your experience. Apart from that you have seen at least a good vertical cut of the genre.

I see no problem with discarding most of the genre, and only focussing on the subgenres that appeal to you. Namely DRPGs and probably SRPGs. The Japanese blobber thread on the codex is very good, so I would search there for further recommendations beyond those I have given.

Now SRPGs are split between two schools of thought in principle. Valkyria Chronicles belongs to neither, so that won't make the choice easy.
Fire Emblem style (Units die very fast, and you are at least theoretically meant to let them die. Units usually only have one basic attack and positioning is king) and Tactics Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics (Units are a bit more tanky, can take 2-4 hits. Units have high customisation and tons of abilities) style.
Imo you should definitly play Final Fantasy Tactics. If you dig the style the whole SRPG genre opens up for you. as for which Fire Emblem to play first I am less qualified to answer, 3 Houses should be fiiiine, but modern Fire Emblem stears away from the Fire Emblem formula so maybe an older one.

TL DR:
If you want to give JRPGs another chance or expand in them:
Play Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne as your first Pokemon clone
Play Final Fantasy Tactics as an FFT style pure SRPG
Play another Fire Emblem style SRPG

If you are fine with just cherry picking the DRPGs:
Play Dark Spire and Mary Skelter
Long Live Wizardry! (And The All-New Games By Ex-Wizardry Developers) - UPDATED: MARCH/07/2016

 

[Suicidal]

...

As for Japanese DRPGs/Blobbers: Yeah those are nice. Since they stay much closer to the Wizardry roots they go down like butter even for crpg hardliners. I recommend Mary Skelter for more Etrian Odyssey style crawling should you run out, and Experience Inc (Sword City) for more Elminage style crawling. Also check out Dark Spire for pure Wizardry incline, only one game tho.

I don't recommend Mary Skelter unless you've played every other weeb blobber and want to scrape the bottom of the barrel for more. It's not terrible (the dungeon exploration is fun and the setting/premise is original at the very least) but it has some of the worst combat I've seen in a blobber (casting 2-3 damage debuffs lowers the damage of ANY enemy including bosses to 1) and a bestiary consisting of 10 enemies that get recolored and reused every once in a while.

OP - have you played all the Etrian Odyssey games? There's a lot of them now. I'm playing EO 2 Untold right now (it's a remake of EO 2 with new content and features) and it's surprisingly difficult, much harder than all the other EO games I've played before (original 1, 1 untold and 3). So far every boss encounter has been sodomizing my party for hours until I find a working strategy and getting oneshot by random mobs is not uncommon.

Also, I recommend trying Labyrinth of Touhou and/or Genius of Sappheiros for some pristine combat-focused autism. The aesthetics of those games are peak weeb cringe, but the combat and party building gameplay are some of the best I've ever experienced in an RPG with some of the largest bestiaries and most creative boss battles to boot.

Also, Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children. If XCOM was a JRPG. Very much focused on combat and customizing your units. There's a lot of story and it can get interesting if you give it time, but if you don't like it, you can just skip it unlike your Valkyria Chronicles example.

 

[aweigh]

I really don't get it. I can't say my experience with them is by any means extensive, but as an adult I just really don't get the appeal. My experience with them is that they're generally both very easy, very grindy, and very cheesy. Even the ones I've overall enjoyed (the blobber sub-genre e.g. Etrian Odysseys and Elminage) tend to suffer from one or more of these problems.

Ones I've played:

Chrono Trigger: I played this as a kid and had fond memories of it, so I started playing it on my phone during commute or while watching TV with my son, and it's... fine? The story is engaging enough, and the graphics are generally superb, but it's super-fucking easy. I'm currently searching for the Masamune and I don't think I've ever had a single character drop below 1/3 health at any time. Part of this is that the game just showers you with a constant stream of money and restorative items, but part of it is also that the combat is very nearly braindead.

Final Fantasy VI: Graphics are nice, story is a bit silly, combat is once again really easy.

The Legend of Heroes: Trail in the Sky FC: I got maybe 1/3 of the way through this and then lost any will to live. Just an utterly boring story, with unattractive graphics, and zero difficulty. I guess I could try playing it again if I run out of sleeping meds.

Lufia: I remember liking this one a lot as a kid, but I remember barely anything else about it.

Bravely Default: Gorgeous graphics, braindead gameplay, nonsensical story.

Etrian Odysseys: Good games, love the mapping mechanic, actually has a decent level of difficulty, story is very minimal, but still suffer from extreme grind and oddly infantilizing art.

Elminage: Gothic: Probably the best out of all the ones I've played. Good difficulty, decent art, still too grindy.

Valkyria Chronicles 1: Not sure this counts. I really liked the gameplay in this, and found it to be decently difficult, but I ended up putting it down because I hated the (incredibly bloated) story, and iirc it's full of five minute long unskippable cut-scenes.

So are JRPGs just not my thing? Or is my sampling of the genre the problem?

They're not for cucks like you. You don't get to play Japanese games, you don't deserve to. You need to EARN the right to play based Japanese games. Westerncucks like you deserve your cucked shit, and you deserve your groveling Western cuck devs. You are banished from this tribe, and we will permanently revoke your ability to play japanese games and leave you in the world of shit of the Western cucks rooting around in the dirt trying to justify why Outer Worlds women are ugly and have bad hair cuts.

You have to EARN the right to play BASED JAPANESE GAMES and we don't take refugees, no Westerncuck migrants accepted. Go wallow in your world of Western SJW bullshit forever you piece of shit.

 

[WhiteShark]

You can get the monster collector and SRPG experience in one package by playing Devil Survivor Overclocked!

 

[jackofshadows]

They're not for cucks like you. You don't get to play Japanese games, you don't deserve to. You need to EARN the right to play based Japanese games. Westerncucks like you deserve your cucked shit, and you deserve your groveling Western cuck devs. You are banished from this tribe, and we will permanently revoke your ability to play japanese games and leave you in the world of shit of the Western cucks rooting around in the dirt trying to justify why Outer Worlds women are ugly and have bad hair cuts.

You have to EARN the right to play BASED JAPANESE GAMES and we don't take refugees, no Westerncuck migrants accepted. Go wallow in your world of Western SJW bullshit forever you piece of shit.

Fucking hell, I'm dying of laugher here This dude has completely lost his mind.

As for the topic - there's none, just forget about it.

 

[Morenatsu.]

you play to find cute little animal boys to fantasize about

 

[Casual Hero]

This thread is going just about as should be expected.

 

[Morenatsu.]

This thread is going just about as should be expected.

you look creepy and i dont love you

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

You seem to like difficulty and hate grind, in that case JRPGs are not for you, you may try Vandal Hearts though, it's a strategy RPG with no grind and dark story, not that hard though. And if you like Vandal Hearts play Fire Emblem 4 and then 5, no grind in those games.

For me, i don't care much about difficulty or anything complex/time consuming, i just to want to sit down, listen to good JRPG music, kill things and relax and have fun. Beating a JRPG is not an "accomplishment" you can brag about like beating i don't know, any Wizardry game without automaps/guide. JRPGs are entertainment, they are pretty easy to get into and beat, and that's what i like about them. Nowadays when i play WRPGs i get bored to death with the slowness and complexity of gameplay that i honestly don't care about, i find most WRPGs to be shallow too, shallow music, shallow art, shallow story.

JRPGs are fun. Kill things, get stronger to kill stronger things.

 

[Grunker]

The very few ones I've liked have primarily been good because of the scope and amount of content. I like the epic feeling of vast RPGs that take you across such a massive journey. But I've never much cared for the gameplay enough in any of them to put them on any top 20 list I've ever had.

I don't mind grind but I do mind easy.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Thac0 Its entirely possible I’m misremembering the difficulty of BD and VC; it’s been quite some time since I played them.

I also forgot to mention that I’ve played Earthbound and Fire Emblem:Awakening.

Earthbound: Basically same criticisms as CHRONO Trigger and FFVI, but also significantly less pretty and with “ohmigosh qWiRKy writing teehee!”. Strong pass.

FE:Awakening: Pretty fun gameplay, but annoying characters, stupid story, and awful matchmaking meta. Made me feel like Dark Helmet in that scene where he’s playing with his dolls.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

FE:Awakening: Pretty fun gameplay, but annoying characters, stupid story, and awful matchmaking meta. Made me feel like Dark Helmet in that scene where he’s playing with his dolls.

Dude ! play Fire Emblem 4 and 5, it's like a totally different series, no fucking waifus or any gay shit and a dark story and harder gameplay:



Grab/buy the Fe4 rom somewhere and play with this translation patch:

https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/63676-fe4-translation-patch-open-beta-v7/

And then play the sequel, Thracia 776, which is much harder, one the hardest SRPGs out there, the translation patch here:

https://forums.serenesforest.net/in...h-translation-translations-to-es-fr-de-it-tr/

There's no grind in those games, they are not anime and they are hard. So there's nothing to complain about it.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

The few that are good will make you feel like they are good games, not good "jrpgs". Just like anime that is genuinely good will feel like they are art.
Try these:

-Xenogears.

-Final Fantasy XII (Use the Struggle for Freedom mod, otherwise the game is cakewalk due to balancing changes for modern audiences.)

-Lunar 2

-Tactics Ogre

-Lost Odyssey

-Nier Automata

-Shadow Hearts

-The Last Story

-Xenoblade Chronicles

-Pandoras Tower

-Final Fantasy IX

And I do mean in that order.

 

[mogwaimon]

sounds like you just don't care for a typical JRPG. I wouldn't classify Elminage or Etrian Odyssey as JRPGs to be honest, those are blobbers in my mind and if you want more of that style check out the Wizardry thread pinned at the top of the forum, there's plenty out there. Steam also has Elminage Original so if you really enjoyed Gothic, Original might be the logical next step.

You might also enjoy SRPGs more as well based on your experience with Fire Emblem Awakening in which case maybe try Troubleshooter (I haven't played but everyone who has seems to love it) and Shining Force 1/2 from Falksi's list as well as earlier Fire Emblems. To elaborate on what the post above mentions, Fire Emblem has a tonal shift starting from Awakening to waifu bait and less serious stories so if you enjoyed the gameplay of FE but hated the story you'll likely enjoy most of the games before Awakening, of which there's like 9+ so you've got options. Avoid Disgaea if it's recommended to you, based on your tastes you probably won't like it but if you wanna try it out start with the first entry, it's got the most tolerable story of all of them according to people with a low weeb tolerance.

 

[CryptRat]

I don't mind grind but I do mind easy.

Some specific games such as The Dark Spyre, the (japanese in that case) Wizardry games, Breath of Fire : Dragon Quarter or Unlimited SaGa offer some challenge and could fit your taste then if high encounter rates and such considerations are not your first concern. These games also have the benefit of not having a too retarded presentation, Labyrinth of Touhou 1&2 are even more challenging and are specially good but the presentation is retarded.

 

[Morenatsu.]

-Lunar 2

>twerking designs
pls no

 

[Thac0]

Thac0 Its entirely possible I’m misremembering the difficulty of BD and VC; it’s been quite some time since I played them.

I also forgot to mention that I’ve played Earthbound and Fire Emblem:Awakening.

Earthbound: Basically same criticisms as CHRONO Trigger and FFVI, but also significantly less pretty and with “ohmigosh qWiRKy writing teehee!”. Strong pass.

FE:Awakening: Pretty fun gameplay, but annoying characters, stupid story, and awful matchmaking meta. Made me feel like Dark Helmet in that scene where he’s playing with his dolls.

As I expected. A budding SRPG player. I recommend old Fire Emblem aswell, I do not play them but I heard many good things about Genealogy of the Holy War/Thracia 776. And the names are just cool.

Having played Earthbound actually covers 2! major gaps in your sampling. For one you dislike the annoying prententious JRPG. That is mostly common outside of Japan actually, but you can steer miles away from gomi like Earthbound.

It also is your first Dragon Quest on the list. Earthbound is close to identical to Dragon Quest in gameplay, the differences between a classless DQ in DQ IV and Earthbound are genuinly minimal. For classical JRPGs the combat can usually roughly be sorted in Final Fantasy style and Dragon Quest style. You seem to dislike both. You may try another Dragon Quest with classes, I always shill DQ III here, and it will probably be a more enjoyable experience, but if you dislike the gameplay of Earthbound much all classical JRPGs are lost to you. But fret not, there are subgenres.

Also very good post by CryptRat , I completely forgot about the existance of SaGa. SaGa is the oddball JRPG. It was Square Enix first series to sell over 1 million, beating Final Fantasy in popularity in Japan. And it is good.
Fairly difficult games, highly interesting systems, bad story and characters, garish settings and some plain weirdness, that is a sign you are playing a Kawazu game.
I would definitly give Romancing SaGa 2 a shot, as it is generally considered to be the best one, it is the least like a classical JRPG, and you should be able to handle it.
It is built around the vision of one wonderchild developer called Kawazu, and everything he touches becomes incline.

Also to make a checklist of a broad slice of the genre:

One Final Fantasy - check, FF and Bravely Default
One Dragon Quest - semi check in Earthbound
One SNES classic - check, Lufia
One Monster Catcher
One SRPG - check, Fire Emblem and Valkyria Chronicles
One Mystery Dungeon (if you like roguelites)
One SaGa
One DRPG - check, EO and Elminage

So you actually played the majority of what I would consider a broad slice of the genre now. The odd things are just missing a monster catcher and having plaid a much more hard core DRPG, which is a very codexian combination I guess.
Play a Shin Megami Tensei, play a SaGa, play some older SRPGs, see what there is to find for you there.

One nice thing about the genre is that it is gargantuan in size, you can have three hardcore JRPG players in the same room and have not had any of them play the same games if they focus on different niches. Since my checklist is just what I consider major subgenres, as to give a broad impression.

 

[Rean]

They're not for cucks like you. You don't get to play Japanese games, you don't deserve to. You need to EARN the right to play based Japanese games. Westerncucks like you deserve your cucked shit, and you deserve your groveling Western cuck devs. You are banished from this tribe, and we will permanently revoke your ability to play japanese games and leave you in the world of shit of the Western cucks rooting around in the dirt trying to justify why Outer Worlds women are ugly and have bad hair cuts.

You have to EARN the right to play BASED JAPANESE GAMES and we don't take refugees, no Westerncuck migrants accepted. Go wallow in your world of Western SJW bullshit forever you piece of shit.

Let's lock this bait thread now, there can be no better response.
I also propose we FORCE all Codex users to learn all this BY HEART.

 

[Morenatsu.]

-Lunar 2

>twerking designs
pls no

@retadreds

what if I don't want perfectly fine JRPGs to be buttraped by localizers who think HAHA SEX JOKE FUNNEY REFERANCE is an appropriate way to translate a game?

 

[lightbane]

While Earthbound aged badly, IMO Mother 3 is still quite a good and fun game to play. It has an official translation to boot IIRC, but it's probably not much better than the fanmade one.

 

[Thac0]

what if I don't want perfectly fine JRPGs to be buttraped by localizers who think HAHA SEX JOKE FUNNEY REFERANCE is an appropriate way to translate a game?

Then you have to life with absolute babbie tier difficulty. The game isn't even hard after the buffs, it is a joke before.

While Earthbound aged badly

Like most games operating on the DQ systems Earthbound aged well. It is just that the west made that style of game cringe.

 

[Morenatsu.]

what if I don't want perfectly fine JRPGs to be buttraped by localizers who think HAHA SEX JOKE FUNNEY REFERANCE is an appropriate way to translate a game?

Then you have to life with absolute babbie tier difficulty. The game isn't even hard after the buffs, it is a joke before.

JRPGs like that are made for children and casuals, what else is new. The entire point is that it's an anime adventure, and if you're willing to let the writing turn into absolute shit just for some bigger numbers, well, just fuck off to a harder game lmao

 

[lightbane]

Like most games operating on the DQ systems Earthbound aged well. It is just that the west made that style of game cringe.

Agreed, that fits better what I was trying to say. Funnily enough that despite the many Earthbound clones, NONE so far copied the thing that stands out on its own: The "rolling meter" system for HP and such, which lets you recover from deadly wounds by using restoratives before the HP meter reaches 0, or even slow down the descent by doing certain actions. I dunno if any other game used it.