Arcanum and Morrowind are still unsurpassed

[Funposter]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

That's what Bioware says about DA:I and ME:A

Haven't played them because I'm sure they suck. The thing about Morrowind's "bigness" is that it primarily serves to allow the player to fulfill a wide range of character archetypes. I don't really care about playing a thief in Morrowind, but I'd like the game less knowing that the option was not available via. the Thieves Guild. Maybe the amount of inconsequential dungeons, tombs etc. detracts from the game in the sense that important, quest-related ones aren't as complex as they could be, but it also enhances the verisimilitude of the game world because not every location is important. In this way the world doesn't revolve around the player, even if it doesn't move or advance without player interaction. Compare this to Skyrim where every dungeon has some sort of heavy-handed environmental storytelling, is tied to a quest, or even worse is just locked and inaccessible unless the player has started its relevant quest.

 

[Bad Sector]

That's what Bioware says about DA:I and ME:A

ME:A did the "big maps" much better than DA:I IMO (and having a vehicle helped too). But TBH none of those games have big maps in the same sense as Morrowind. Besides it wasn't the map size that was so much of a problem with those games but what you did there (especially DA:I which as i've written at the past is designed around wasting your time).

 

[Sigourn]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun. Hell, Gothic even restricted your movement because unlike Morrowind's world (which is really "free for all" except for Daedric Ruins and certain dungeons) Gothic's wildlife made it really hard to explore unless you wanted to be killed.

luj1 why don't you just admit you love a shitty game? Skyrim players do that and they lead happy lives, nothing stops you from doing the same.

 

[JDR13]

That's what Bioware says about DA:I and ME:A

ME:A did the "big maps" much better than DA:I IMO (and having a vehicle helped too). But TBH none of those games have big maps in the same sense as Morrowind. Besides it wasn't the map size that was so much of a problem with those games but what you did there (especially DA:I which as i've written at the past is designed around wasting your time).

No shit. I wasn't comparing them to Morrowind. I was just taking a dig at Bioware.

 

[Molina]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun. Hell, Gothic even restricted your movement because unlike Morrowind's world (which is really "free for all" except for Daedric Ruins and certain dungeons) Gothic's wildlife made it really hard to explore unless you wanted to be killed.

luj1 why don't you just admit you love a shitty game? Skyrim players do that and they lead happy lives, nothing stops you from doing the same.

I love this shitty game. For the simple reason that it is the game that makes me feel that I am in a believable world.
Arcanum, a game I love, does not have the same world building. In Morrowind, there are a lot of details that serve no purpose, that are not even related to a quest, but they are just there, because it is only natural that they are there (like embassies, beds in every brigands' cave, an so on). Of course it's an extremely simplified world, but I really appreciate the effort. Besides, Tamriel Rebuild has become a master in this effort to create a world more than a game.
Morrowind is the only game where I can describe very precisely how the local clergy works for example. I don't care, but I know it, because it's clear, logic and well implanted. We can always find better than this game on many aspects. But it's the only one that describes a complex society so well.

 

[Goldschmidt]

Now we are full circle. Every codexer hates rpgs from every other codexer. We shall have to agree to disagree.
I really hope gamedevs take this site's opinions with a big grain of salt.

It has come to a point that I am having a personal rpg crisis.

 

[mogwaimon]

Now we are full circle. Every codexer hates rpgs from every other codexer. We shall have to agree to disagree.
I really hope gamedevs take this site's opinions with a big grain of salt.

It has come to a point that I am having a personal rpg crisis.

play games for yourself, not to impress a bunch of internet autists for brofists. whatever you like is what you like whether it's shit or it's incline. there's not a single codexer here who doesn't have some sort of guilty pleasure game, I would wager.

 

[Funposter]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun.

They're different types of game you fucking retard.

 

[Beans00]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun.

They're different types of game you fucking retard.

Morrowind and Gothic aren't open world RPGS?

Or do you mean one is good and one isn't good...(The German one is the good one).

 

[Sigourn]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun.

They're different types of game you fucking retard.

Read what Beans00 said.
The problem with Morrowind is that it is big... but what does it actually offer, though?

So far Morrowind fans' only genuine argument as to why they like Morrowind is because they are lorefags and worldbuildingfags. But truth is, that may make a great book, but not a great game. As a game, Morrowind is garbage.

 

[Bad Sector]

So far Morrowind fans' only genuine argument as to why they like Morrowind is because they are lorefags and worldbuildingfags.

You might dismiss it as a non-"genuine" argument, but personally what i really liked in Morrowind beyond lore and world building was world exploration. It is the only game where i had fun following directions to some cave - the cave itself wasn't anything special and in other games you'd just teleport to it or near it via fast travel or something, but in Morrowind i had to follow vague directions, plan how to go there via the in-game travel options and then read the environment.

This isn't something that has to do with its RPG side, but everything else Morrowind has done can be found in other games - for the most part anyway - including even some of Bethesda's own later titles. I haven't experienced such a thing in any other game (and while i'm not a fan of big seamless worlds in general, i do not think Morrowind would work any other way). Of course the lore and worldbuilding does help for me to care into wanting to explore that world, but other games (including other TES titles) have interesting lord and worldbuilding but do not allow for this sort of exploration.

There are other elements of the game that are good (ie. "i like them"), like the dialog system (though not necessarily the dialog contents), the UI, the quest system, etc but pretty much all of those can be found in other games.

 

[Sigourn]

You might dismiss it as a non-"genuine" argument, but personally what i really liked in Morrowind beyond lore and world building was world exploration. It is the only game where i had fun following directions to some cave - the cave itself wasn't anything special and in other games you'd just teleport to it or near it via fast travel or something, but in Morrowind i had to follow vague directions, plan how to go there via the in-game travel options and then read the environment.

I don't disregard your experience because I've had the same experience in the past. And interestingly enough, I used to say that, once you replay Morrowind, the joy of exploration is lost as you already know where do you need to get to without the need to follow any directions. Sure you may have lost your way the first time trying to get the Dwemer Puzzle Box. But on a second playthrough, you know exactly where Arkngthand lies, and where the cube is, among many other things.

Yet I was wrong. It's not that the joy of exploration is killed after a replay playthrough. It's that the joy of exploration is short-lived. Finding something without the need of quest markers gets very stale. Which is why even though New Vegas tells me exactly where do I need to go (through quest markers), I still find myself loving to replay its quests even if I know the possible outcomes. To me, that feeling never gets old. I'm still drawn to the quests, the characters, the world and the writing. But even if I play new quests in Morrowind, they all feel so mundanely similar, with the most "interesting" aspect about them is having to follow directions.

Just think about those two words: "follow directions". We (rightfully) criticize Bethesda's quest markers, but following directions isn't a particularly stimulating activity either. Morrowind's lack of quest markers, as someone pointed out, wasn't a novelty when Morrowind released. So why is this one aspected of the game praised so much? Even the exploration falls apart when you (when I) realized that there were countless caves, tombs, kwama mines, Daedric ruins, Dwemer ruins, and so forth to discover... but nearly nothing of interest to find.

I play ping pong with Morrowind and New Vegas, constantly rocking back and forth between both games. But for the past year I've realized that while I dread to mod Morrowind, mostly because once I'm done, I don't feel like playing at all (because the eager to play was barely there to begin with), I always love to mod New Vegas and can't wait to get my setup up and running, because I know the finished product is worth it.

 

[Harthwain]

Morrowind's lack of quest markers, as someone pointed out, wasn't a novelty when Morrowind released. So why is this one aspected of the game praised so much?

Probably because of what came after - the quest compass and the removal of all directions.

 

[Nutria]

Morrowind's lack of quest markers, as someone pointed out, wasn't a novelty when Morrowind released. So why is this one aspected of the game praised so much?

I think it got some love at the time for how it let you traverse the terrain. I don't remember any game at that time with such a big world where you could actually climb a mountain or swim a river. Before those were always just impassable walls. It's not so much that Morrowind let you walk around a bit, it really gave you the freedom to explore in whatever way you wanted. Until the goddamn cliff racers showed up at least.

 

[Harthwain]

Even the exploration falls apart when you (when I) realized that there were countless caves, tombs, kwama mines, Daedric ruins, Dwemer ruins, and so forth to discover... but nearly nothing of interest to find.

To be frank, this is true for any game. Once you realize how the underlying mechanic works the magic is gone - it becomes formulaic. However, what made Morrowind so interesting (at least for some time) was exactly what you speak of: there was stuff for you to explore in whatever direction you desired. Sure, it wasn't all equally worthwhile in terms of gear or level progression, but it would be difficult (if not impossible) to have everything balanced around your character at any particular point in time. Unless you want to go the way of Oblivion's.

 

[Funposter]

Morrowind could have been half the size and become that much better of a game by having more time spent on the parts that counted.

it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't big

I disagree. Gothic wasn't anywhere near as big and it was that much more fun.

They're different types of game you fucking retard.

thank you JarlFrank you are my greatest ally

 

[Thal]

Morrowind's lack of quest markers, as someone pointed out, wasn't a novelty when Morrowind released. So why is this one aspected of the game praised so much?

I think it got some love at the time for how it let you traverse the terrain. I don't remember any game at that time with such a big world where you could actually climb a mountain or swim a river. Before those were always just impassable walls. It's not so much that Morrowind let you walk around a bit, it really gave you the freedom to explore in whatever way you wanted. Until the goddamn cliff racers showed up at least.

This. And, moreover, Morrowind's systems are built to facilitate getting better at travelling. You start out as pretty much as a cripple, unless you roll a Khajiit Acrobat, but as you progress in the game, you constantly get new tools to navigate that world. Whereas swimming was once dangerous, now you can walk on water; whereas finding a way over mountains was once cumbersome, now you can levitate over it; or just amplify your speed with a potion made from moon sugar and Kagouti hide. I don't think there's any other game where options like this are even present, let alone on par with Morrowind's.

Still, it's a deeply flawed game. I don't think no one disputes that. In many ways, the idea of playing Morrowind is much better than actually playing Morrowind. I replay it every now and then, but rarely finish it and haven't touched Tribunal content for years.

Also, roll an Archer for those Cliff Racers.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

Lore of elder scrolls series really shines at imperial library website, with things like Encyclopedia Tamrielica. It gives these games more sense.

 

[volklore]

Morrowind did not care about any kind of balance and is the game I have the most fun replaying just to tinker around with its systems to find more way to break it (which is thematically fitting too since your character is impersonating/fulling a demigod prophecy). There's something about the weird convoluted magic system that just fits with the weird world, it clicks. I just love it for that, among all the other obvious great things about it and despite its flaws and some of the less elegant systems (like the alchemy loop or the economy in general - fixable with mods after first playthrough). Also the modding community for MW is great, TR is a god-tier content mod - I wished they followed through their original plans of having an alternative early game with one of the TR areas but that got scraped sadly.
I like Gothic 1 and 2 as much as the next guy. They are tightly designed open-ended games but they don't have that same spark for me.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

I loved Gothic 3 for same reason, it was magical with it's soundtrack and freedom, also getting proper lines in the config was a real task at it's release.
But i also agree that Arcanum and Morrowind are unique to this very day and still totally worth a replay once a year by any crpg fan, even without any mods.

 

[Raghar]

Games like Morrowind or Arcanum won't happen again anytime soon, unless by an accident. They require too much resources and manpower

Not really. Morrowind was made by 30 malnourished people. Many of those weren't full time, so just several key people. At a time when Bethesda was on the brink of bankrupcy.

The reason Morrowind is awesome was centrally authored content by 2-3 educated talented leads. Kirkbride and Rolston made Morrowind, with support from unsung guys like Noah Berry and Mark Bullock.

Yea, low paid developers who wanna create something awesome are much better than overpaid millennials. Research with intent to create seamless world, and correcting some Daggerfall flaws were enough to make decent game. Also they moved to more hand made quest content to create tighter story. In later games they overdid that with hand made content, randomly generated DECENT content beaten up some hand made quest in Skyrim.

 

[Raghar]

it really gave you the freedom to explore in whatever way you wanted. Until the goddamn cliff racers showed up at least.

Until 40 cliff racers showed up and you didn't have fireball yet.

 

[xuerebx]

I agree with everything JarlFrank, especially Morrowind. You can find many faults, but a combination of me being young when I played it, the game being different to what I had played before, the engrossing game world and its lore...it was special. However I can see someone trying it out today being turned off.

 

[Ehrenmann]

Morrowind is great although I dislike the linearity of the main story. Sure, there is a way to finish it if you butcher Vivec but that's about it. Joining factions is fun, but there should have been greater exclusivity among them.

Haven't played Tamriel Rebuilt / Project Tamriel mods but they seem to be quite good mods. Unfortunately, the typical "Sjws" infest these projects. My friend was a developer and got kicked for having "wrong" political opinions.

 

[JarlFrank]

Haven't played Tamriel Rebuilt / Project Tamriel mods but they seem to be quite good mods. Unfortunately, the typical "Sjws" infest these projects. My friend was a developer and got kicked for having "wrong" political opinions.

Really? Damn. I thought these oldschool mod projects were safe from that disease.