NSFW Best Thread Ever [No SJW-related posts allowed]

[gurugeorge]

 

[Infinitron]

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[Infinitron]

Gatekeeping modders hate him!



From the comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_JR9ywIwN8&lc=UgwfXpiRUOkis4ICaNJ4AaABAg

Hi, one of the GZDoom developers here. Thought I'd clear the air on something, before the comments go out of control. I've spoken to Marc about this on Discord before, so I think he already knows this, and this comment is more directed towards the general populace.

First and foremost, it was a quickly-hacked-in development CVar. Originally meant to to debug things like interpolation, particularly with models and tween-frame player movement. If you're a mod developer, I'm sure you've run into a lot of situations where you'd be thinking, "hey I wonder if I could add this one stupid thing as a test" and you spend 5 - 10 minutes quickly putting it in, with no intention to expose your players to it because you just wanted to internally test something and want to add it in in the quickest way possible, without caring if it'll break something else. This is exactly the situation here.

And as a result of this, the problems with i_timescale becomes obvious: instead of "properly" adjusting the timescale of things, the ENTIRE engine gets adjusted - if you activate slowmo, suddenly trying to open the console will also be slow. Movement input will be polled slower. And a whole other bunch of weird stuff. This is the direct result of precisely not much time being spent into adding the "feature" - that's because it's not a feature. It's a debug command to aid engine development.

Oh and BTW, a quick history lesson: technically it's existed in ZDoom for a very long time. Before the timer refactor, ZDoom had a command-line option (it was called -timerdelay) where you specified the number of ms per tic. A value of 1 made for really fast games, and a value of something like 200 would be really slow. The value 28 was ZDoom's "approximate" default.

So in other words, it was something that already sort of has code for it lying around, and it was quickly repurposed to do another thing, with little thought into actually making it a usable feature.

So what's stopping it from becoming an actual, usable feature for mods? Nothing really... it just needs someone to actually step up to dedicate their time to code it properly. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be done in 10 minutes. A lot of care (and work, obviously) needs to be taken to properly support this as a modding feature.

On top of that, arguably some people (other developers) think that the REAL way to add slowmo to your game is not via messing with the entire engine's timescale, but have actors be able to individually tic at varying rates. Needless to say, again, this isn't something that can easily be added.

If someone comes in and does it nice and clean, then sure, I don't see why it can't be an official modding feature.

So, no, it's not "GZDoom developers gatekeeping wah wah". It's just that it's not easy to add proper support for it. Remember that GZDoom is a collaborative work by several people out of their own free time, none of us are getting paid to do this stuff. If something is easy to add, then sure, we can add it. But something like timescale adjustment certainly isn't easy to add.

tl;dr it's not easy to add proper support for this in the engine

That said, Marc's put out a cool mod here and I personally have actually also used similar techniques for the purposes of video recording. Use it as you will. Just understand the true circumstances of what goes behind engine development.

 

[GrainWetski]

 

[Caim]

IF SHE BREATHES, HE GARLAND WILL KNOCK HER DOWN.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[AgentFransis]

Some noice memes on this guy's channel

 

[lightbane]

This would make for a fun, if short, game.

 

[Joggerino]

I was for the longest time trying to find out what the name of the game i played years ago was. It was a thieving game in 3D, there was a town and you had many locations to steal from. And finally, accidentally, while looking through publishers on wikipedia i found it out! It's "The Sting!" from 2001.
(not my video)

 

[Baron Dupek]

 

[Mikeal]

 

[Average Manatee]

This would make for a fun, if short, game.

"a WW2 M1 Abrams tank"

 

[ferratilis]

Take-Two has started issuing DMCA strikes for GTA 3D era mods, it's like an open war against modding lol

if any of you like GTA3, VC, San Andreas, Bully, Manhunt, or PSP GTA games, I recommend downloading everything from here and making an archive. You never know when it might be taken down.

https://www.definitive-edition-project.com/files

 

[catfood]

Thanks for the heads up. I need to download GTA Vice City Mamaia and keep it safe.

 

[Mikeal]

 

[gurugeorge]

I always do that, I start an evil playthrough with the best of intentions, and it all goes horribly wrong when gradually, insensibly, my choices turn me into my usual goody two-shoes type of character

 

[Average Manatee]

I always do that, I start an evil playthrough with the best of intentions, and it all goes horribly wrong when gradually, insensibly, my choices turn me into my usual goody two-shoes type of character

The problem is that there's no incentive to be evil in most games aside from the novelty of being evil, which is a pretty meaningless and childish way to view morality. Give people a hard game where a time-limited quest in the first chapter has you delivering a +5 sword to a paladin defending a village and people will start considering the evil side worth taking. But no, games have to be easy where all decisions are equally valid and "balanced".

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The problem is that there's no incentive to be evil in most games aside from the novelty of being evil, which is a pretty meaningless and childish way to view morality. Give people a hard game where a time-limited quest in the first chapter has you delivering a +5 sword to a paladin defending a village and people will start considering the evil side worth taking. But no, games have to be easy where all decisions are equally valid and "balanced".

Not to mention that evil is usually portrayed without nuance (i.e. stupid evil). KotOR being one of the bigger culprits in this regard.

 

[JarlFrank]

The problem is that there's no incentive to be evil in most games aside from the novelty of being evil, which is a pretty meaningless and childish way to view morality. Give people a hard game where a time-limited quest in the first chapter has you delivering a +5 sword to a paladin defending a village and people will start considering the evil side worth taking. But no, games have to be easy where all decisions are equally valid and "balanced".

Not to mention that evil is usually portrayed without nuance (i.e. stupid evil). KotOR being one of the bigger culprits in this regard.

Evil should be portrayed as ruthless people doing self-serving egoistical things, or as ruthless people who genuinely believe their cause is right and will do anything to achieve it, no matter how extreme and cruel.

Usually it's portrayed as just being a spiteful dick for no reason. "Ha, ha, ha! I kicked this puppy because it looked at me with cute eyes, and I despise cute things! Ah, to spread misery is such fun!"

 

[fork]

A more realistic depiction of 'evil' motives in entertainment would clue people in on what's really happening around the world and (((who)))'s mostly responsible. We can't have that obviously.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Unless there's a fixed protagonist the game still has to play somewhat like the good path, and it's hard to come up with non-psycho reasons for an evil character to put himself in danger instead of looking out purely for his own safety and ignoring the plot. Amoral mercenary types already hog the "I'll help, for a price" choices so the evil option is left with "I'll help because murder is funny".

-

 

[Mikeal]

 

[gurugeorge]

Unless there's a fixed protagonist the game still has to play somewhat like the good path, and it's hard to come up with non-psycho reasons for an evil character to put himself in danger instead of looking out purely for his own safety and ignoring the plot. Amoral mercenary types already hog the "I'll help, for a price" choices so the evil option is left with "I'll help because murder is funny".

The most straightforward way to have an evil character in a game with an evil protagonist is for your evil character to have the attitude, "No you sonofabitch, you don't get to rule the world, I get to rule the world."